hermanista Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 So knights are everywhere comparatively now, a mate went to a tourney at the weekend and 17 of 32 lists had at least 1 knight. So, What does a competative anti-knight knight list look like? Lancers and Atrapos? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349447-the-anti-knight-knight-based-list/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 Point-for-point, I think a Gallant with a Paragon Gauntlet is the most efficient way to destroy enemy Knights. Hitting on 2s, wounding on 2s, negating armour saves and each wound causes 8 points of damage. You only need to get 3 wounds through to kill an enemy Questoris with that beast. If going for firepower then a Raven Castellan with Cawls Wrath and the Raven strat is probably the ultimate in anti-tank. Not so efficient in terms of points and enemy Knights still get their Ion Shield save but much easier to use as you just need LOS, no need to worry about screening or charging into the heart of the enemy army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349447-the-anti-knight-knight-based-list/#findComment-5140691 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermanista Posted August 8, 2018 Author Share Posted August 8, 2018 Part of my reasoning for posting, is a mate is selling his Porphyrion unbuilt for a decent discount and I'm really tempted. I know I'd never really use it I don't think, but I saw one in the FW store and it's so stunningly huge and brutal that I'm considering it. But whether it's GT viable.... different question entirely. You can do a Porphyrion, 2 gallant and a basic guard battalion for 1750 though... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349447-the-anti-knight-knight-based-list/#findComment-5140700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heliomanes Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 When I bring my Porphyrion I usually give him the Headsman relic from House Krast and the Ion Bulwark. Against enemy knights, he turns his primary guns into a flat 8 damage per wound, which is nuts. Usually reliably deletes a knight per turn.He will need a meat shield though, to guard against enemy assault shenanigans. Guard batallions might be the best options, but big Skitarii squads can also work. I'm looking forward to trying a big blob of Hoplites in that role.He also works well with a gallant or something similar. This means that you'll get to use the "full tilt" stratagems, and have a good countercharger or distraction unit, that provides more target saturation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349447-the-anti-knight-knight-based-list/#findComment-5140705 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 Yeah, the Porphyrion is brutal against tanks and titans. It is arguably even better in this role than the Castellan as the twin Magna Lascannon is better than the Volcano Lance and the Porphyrion packs 2 of them! The downside is the lack of flexibility. If you run into an infanty-heavy list, your opponent will just laugh and your expensive knight deletes a handful of infantry each turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349447-the-anti-knight-knight-based-list/#findComment-5140764 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermanista Posted August 8, 2018 Author Share Posted August 8, 2018 I was thinking House raven. Bit more manoeuvring room, but companions on the Porphy should solve any turn one dice fluffs. SHD - House Raven Porphyrion, Ion Bulwark, sainted armour Gallant, Paragon Guantlet Gallant, Landstrider Guard battalion Commanderx2 warlord/relic Infantry x3 1744 It is an all or bust list, and does hope for first turn and to face other knight lists... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349447-the-anti-knight-knight-based-list/#findComment-5141071 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heliomanes Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 I'm testing something similar with two helverins instead of the gallants. Frees up some more points to add various ground support elements. Call it an attempt to make the list a bit less of a one trick pony. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349447-the-anti-knight-knight-based-list/#findComment-5141130 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Reinhard Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 what about a Castellan? Too expensive for what it does? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349447-the-anti-knight-knight-based-list/#findComment-5141136 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 what about a Castellan? Too expensive for what it does? No, I think it is pretty good for what it does but if he already has a Porphyrion, I don't see the need for it. I don't play FW so I would take a Castellan in the above list and be happy with it. But if his mate is selling a Porpyrion.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349447-the-anti-knight-knight-based-list/#findComment-5141142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stray Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 The Lancer isn't a bad option at the cheaper end of the scale. It's effectively the tankiest Knight in existence in that with Rotate and relics, you can have a 3++ vs both melee and shooting, a built in -1 to hit it in CC, plus the extra wounds and native regen. That Lance is no slouch in terms of damage output either. Give it the right trait and household and I'd say you could fairly reliably delete a Knight a turn with it. It's very quick being Cerastus, maybe Terryn for the mobility and the extra ridiculousness of getting to fight twice with that platform? Gallants are great, but at best they'd be hitting on 3's like the other mere mortals, and having to beat a re-roll-able 3++ is no fun, whether or not you're packing the Paragon Gauntlet :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349447-the-anti-knight-knight-based-list/#findComment-5141213 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 I'm testing something similar with two helverins instead of the gallants. Frees up some more points to add various ground support elements. Call it an attempt to make the list a bit less of a one trick pony.Put the Helm Dominatus on your Porphyron, and running your Helverins next it. Nothing like hitting on 2’s re-rolling 1’s to just end something every turn with those Autocannons. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349447-the-anti-knight-knight-based-list/#findComment-5141215 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 Just my opinion but I’d expect to see a point bump on the Gallant. Not a full nerf mind you but something along the lines that hit the Razorback or Fire Raptors. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349447-the-anti-knight-knight-based-list/#findComment-5141240 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Knight Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 If the price did go up would that effect the 1750 lists? Because of the points reduction in the tournament scene GW may not beatable to increase the costs without breaking Knight lists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349447-the-anti-knight-knight-based-list/#findComment-5141249 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermanista Posted August 9, 2018 Author Share Posted August 9, 2018 I didn't play the GTs last year, this is my first time, so I can't remember how they did the implementation of chapter approved last year. I think they just threw it in straight away and you just dealt with it. The Porphyrion is secured so that's happening, I'm gonna be good though and get my basic guard battalion built and painted before I start him though. I expect that to get a nerf come November as well mind you Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349447-the-anti-knight-knight-based-list/#findComment-5141261 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heliomanes Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 I'm testing something similar with two helverins instead of the gallants. Frees up some more points to add various ground support elements. Call it an attempt to make the list a bit less of a one trick pony.Put the Helm Dominatus on your Porphyron, and running your Helverins next it. Nothing like hitting on 2’s re-rolling 1’s to just end something every turn with those Autocannons. SJ Questoris or Dominus class only, I'm afraid. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349447-the-anti-knight-knight-based-list/#findComment-5141343 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Reinhard Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 A restriction put there to deny armigers the use of the relic, no doubt. FW knights get caught in the crossfire on this one. What it really should say is "any titanic walker" knight instead ala the errata did on the cp section.. But I just think most restrictions on relics need to go in general :p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349447-the-anti-knight-knight-based-list/#findComment-5141345 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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