Geowolf8 Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 So I had my first game of eighth edition last night after being away for a year or two. The hinges feel rusty but I'll get my head wrapped around the new rules eventually. Anyway, I had some thoughts to put out and see what the general feelings are. Vindicators, are they worth it? I had one and it just seems so underwhelming now. Sure when the shots actually hit they aren't too bad I guess but with only a potential D3 it just seems like points I should have spent elsewhere. Would you recommend a predator over a vindicator? Defilers still seem decent enough, but given what they are it really seems like they should be turned to CC with the bonus battle cannon as the rest of the shooting isn't enough to write home about. Helbrutes are good, better if you remember the crazed rule. I'm not sure about the missile launcher or the plasma cannon but the twin las is good. I really want to run a twin scourge now, 11 attacks is scary. A Lord with jump pack and the Axe of Blind Fury acts as a good mini Khârn but fell short of the damage output I thought he would have. What is a good setup for a jump lord? Also, is it an over sight and corrected somewhere that we can't give bikes to our characters anymore? I looked but couldn't find anything. And finally, I went up against Ultramarines with the G man leading them. His double aura bubble is beyond nuts with all of the rerolls smurfs around him get. Do people try to ignore him or is trying to eliminate that force multiplier top of the list of targets? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349512-thoughts-after-first-8ed-game/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonlover Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 Personally, I'd recommend Predators over Vindicators. I've never seen them do much in 8th. Defilers I can't comment on as despite loving them I'm yet to use one. Helbrutes are pretty cool, I like to go with twin lascannon and scourge. I personally found the missiles underwhelming, but others have good luck with them so I just blame my dice/meta! Our biker Lords are in Index: Chaos, along with anything else that went missing in the new codex, like sorcerers on bikes. I've never faced Gulliman, so can't help there. Finally, welcome to the forum! Dragonlover Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349512-thoughts-after-first-8ed-game/#findComment-5142840 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Haduwig Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 Welcome back to the hobby. Honestly after my last couple of games I've dropped vehicles for chaos all together, I'm finding them too expensive for what they achieve. That said i definitely prefer the predator over a vindicator. Hellbrutes definitely seem a solid choice, as for Lords in general, their main use is to buff squads. The damage he does is just bonus to me. With regards to the girlyman, ignore him as much as possible and kill the units around him. You're unlikely to kill him without leaving the rest of their army to tear yours to pieces. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349512-thoughts-after-first-8ed-game/#findComment-5142923 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Dred missile launchers really need to be heavy 2 for the krak and heavy 2d6 for the frags with cyclones being only heavy 1 ("tactical dreadnought armor" meaning in this case bringing the tough potential of a dred on demand...not better fire power than a dedicated fire support unit.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349512-thoughts-after-first-8ed-game/#findComment-5143023 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven1 Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 I use predators over vindicators using the predator autocannons i think mathammer-wise is your best bet. I have not used a defiler, and helbrutes are good but i prefer them in smaller games. As far everything else goes, i play TS/Tzeentch demons so my advice is play to your armies strengths and look for ways to overlap auras from characters and buffs from psychic powers and strategems to super power units as opposed to focusing on deathstars as was the old way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349512-thoughts-after-first-8ed-game/#findComment-5143028 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azekai Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Play smaller point games where Guilleman is a liability... especially early on if you are learning the new ruleset.Facing ol' Roboute for your first game is a baptism of fire. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349512-thoughts-after-first-8ed-game/#findComment-5143056 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Frankly, if I had been present I would have told off your opponent for using Guilliman in a learning game. In other news, I cannot speak highly enough of the Helbrute if only because they benefit from Legion Traits. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349512-thoughts-after-first-8ed-game/#findComment-5143912 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekhitar Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Vindicator are just a drag on the army, really. Preds are much nicer. The best way to deal with Glitterbomb is to drop a death hex and then go all in on him. He will reliably chew things up in close combat, and that reroll bubble makes even overwatch scary. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349512-thoughts-after-first-8ed-game/#findComment-5144150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geowolf8 Posted August 15, 2018 Author Share Posted August 15, 2018 Thanks all for the feedback! Poor vindicators. I loved them when they still had templates, always had at least one in my lists. Nothing caused tears more than a hidden Vindicator rushing out on turn three or four to maul some unsuspecting unit that strayed where they shouldn't have. I think I'm going to stray away from tanks for a bit, explore daemons and daemon vehicles. Thanks for pointing out the index, I thought we didn't really need it anymore. Next game I'll have my Black mace Bike lord again! Muahaha. I love my defilers, I have three. Usually good for freaking someone out when you charge a daemon spider tank thing up the board. Question on Berzerkers, how do you interpret their fight twice rule? just take two fight actions or take two fight phases, including the moves? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349512-thoughts-after-first-8ed-game/#findComment-5145612 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Haduwig Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 The charge phase is its own thing outside the fight phase if thats what you mean? However you can take your first fight action and, if you wipe out the opposing squad, consolidate 3 inches into another squad and then fight again. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349512-thoughts-after-first-8ed-game/#findComment-5145772 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 From my understanding watching battlereports, it's like this. We will say you got 5 zerkers in elites (not a world eaters detachment), with bolt pistols and chainswords. Champ has 3+1 attack, zerks feet 2+1 for 16 attacks total. So, you charge them in survive overwatch with no losses and the enemy doesn't have interrupt strats or the points to do it, since you charged you activate first, picking the 5 zerkers. They make their 16 attacks, wounds and the enemy makes their saves, then you pile in and make 16 more attacks, if there is anything left of what your opponent had that was assaulted, they can attack. Every berserker unit can do this. Even if you have 20 Berserkers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349512-thoughts-after-first-8ed-game/#findComment-5145841 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Two fight actions basically. The whole thing starting from pile in and ending with consolidating. So either you fight twice against the same unit if it didn't get wiped by the first fight action you fight once against the first unit and wipe it, consolidate into a second unit that's nearby, pile in and then fight once more against that second unit, consolidate towards the nearest enemy you fight once against the first unit and wipe it, consolidate towards the nearest enemy unit but don't reach it because it's too far away, then don't do your second activation because nothing is within 1" and you didn't charge this turn you fight once against the first unit and wipe it, consolidate towards the nearest enemy unit but don't reach it because it's too far away, then do your second activation because you charged this turn (you can activate any unit that either charged this turn or is within 1" of an enemy!), pile in and then fight once more against that second unit, consolidate towards the nearest enemy 2-4 are basically the same scenarios (first unit gets wiped) but with variations (second unit in range/not in range and didn't charge this turn/not in range and charged this turn). If you still have questions I recommend reading the steps for the Fight Phase on page 182 in the BRB and just play a few scenarios in your head by going through it step by step. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349512-thoughts-after-first-8ed-game/#findComment-5146008 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Ruminahui Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 You just have to declare all the units you want to fight as targets to your charge - if you don't., you can't fight them even if you consolidate or pile into them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349512-thoughts-after-first-8ed-game/#findComment-5148285 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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