Wish Listing Future Black Templars Releases

[Medjugorje]

i think so too. Something is going on by GW - but we will see.

[Medjugorje]

https://www.change.org/p/vows-for-black-templars?signed=true

 

to show GW our wishes.

[Brother Sheep]

I didn't want this to be my first post, but i have to say it....

 

i'm a true and soley neophyte. I started 40k around half a year ago and i still dont know the whole fluff or how to play the game correctly.

BUT, i chose Black Templar for their sole Ideology. Teutonic Knights who are against everything what is not them? i like it! And the more i read or watch about them (helsreach for instance), the more i like my choice.

I know i didnt choose the "most powerful" army and i do not even care at all. (even though i am a "power gamer" and everytime i lose my friends grinn at me, because they know how much i hate losing)

 

So why are you all so negative?

 

We got enough to show it clear, what our armies are meant to be. EXCEPT the primaris part.

and thats the only thing that i really hope to get from GW

(to get back to the intentional topic)

 

I just want to make my (non so fluffy, because shooting) Primaris Intercessor look like Templars!

and MAYBE a Primaris CC-Unit who is worth taking to the table (i dont count Reivers, sorry)

[Arganias]

I would like to see Crusader Bike Squads. I heard they used to be a thing, but would be cool regardless to get that whole mounted knight feel.

[+Chaplain Matthias+]

I didn't want this to be my first post, but i have to say it....

 

i'm a true and soley neophyte. I started 40k around half a year ago and i still dont know the whole fluff or how to play the game correctly.

BUT, i chose Black Templar for their sole Ideology. Teutonic Knights who are against everything what is not them? i like it! And the more i read or watch about them (helsreach for instance), the more i like my choice.

I know i didnt choose the "most powerful" army and i do not even care at all. (even though i am a "power gamer" and everytime i lose my friends grinn at me, because they know how much i hate losing)

 

So why are you all so negative?

 

We got enough to show it clear, what our armies are meant to be. EXCEPT the primaris part.

and thats the only thing that i really hope to get from GW

(to get back to the intentional topic)

 

I just want to make my (non so fluffy, because shooting) Primaris Intercessor look like Templars!

and MAYBE a Primaris CC-Unit who is worth taking to the table (i dont count Reivers, sorry)

Welcome to the forum! I'm relatively new too and yes I agree. The negativity around here is extremely disappointing and offputting. I've just decided to avoid the countless complaining threads and stick to crusade threads. That said, I would love a Templar upgrade pack for primaris. Just getting that would make me so happy. Maybe a Templar primaris lieutenant. The most I could ever see happening would be a primaris cc squad that fits better with our vibe than rievers. But I don't expect it and so I won't be disappointed when it doesn't happen. That's my wish list.

 

But even more important than my wish list for GW is my wish for everyone to get back to their crusade threads! I need new lore and pictures!

[Medjugorje]

So why are you all so negative?

 

 

Because we dont get any love since 5th edtion with exception in gathering storm. All other codicies getting some love (or a lot of it)...

 

but the truth is that we dont want to wate - in reality we all expect a lot more from GW.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

We get loads of love. I've said it before, and I'll (sadly) have to keep saying it. We are the most favoured second founding chapter in existence. We have more toys than most of the first founding legions! If you think we haven't had love since 5th dropped feel sorry for the Salamanders, they even had one of their independent characters killed off!

 

We have the best troop options in the codex, really decent characters, Cenobytes, decent FW upgrades, the best value upgrade kit bar none.

 

Yes we suck on the table, but ALL marines suck on the table! Stop demanding exceptional treatment just for us, it won't achieve anything. What we need to suck less is for all marines to suck less.

 

Anywho, back to the topic, I suppose chainswords on Primaris would be nice. I wouldn't mind just being able to mix them into a Crusader Squad though, like in my kill team.

[Marshal_Roujakis]

I think that's both true and a lie, not all Marines list suck currently at the table, certain detachments, Chapter Traits and army tactics are better than most, I think the negativity stems from GW promising us one thing, declaring another thing and doing a totally opposing thing from what they promised or declared... the biggest two being that in fluff, they mentioned through an fb response by a GW representative, that they will stay true to the previous fluff, and that psykers are still hated by the Chapter... totally opposing thing in the Codex.... another thing is declaring that BT will be a great melee based army for the Templars and there will be massive emphasis on the Templars capacity in melee, what we got in the Codex is lackluster in comparison to what other melee based armies, especially those that came out after C:SM got, and also not to mention the unfair treatment in regards to Chapter Traits in which some Chapters took two, while others, including BT took only one...

 

The negativity stems from GW, once again being the massive disappointment that they are and majority of those in here trying to cope with the power creep that they promised would never happen again... 

And true... Marines need to be better overall to cope, but maybe keep the Ultramarines where they currently are at, since those blueberries don't need anymore attention...

I think this is the primary issue with the C:SM codex overall... GW thinks that if they improve the C:SM, they also have to drag the power creep up for the Ultra-Smurfs, which is completely unnecessary due to them having the most number of named Characters, a Bloody Primarch and access to all sorts of shenanigans including Tiberius the Ultra-Nerd... those just need to stay where they are at while buffing all the other Chapters that are in the C:SM, except for the damn Blueberries...

[Medjugorje]

We get loads of love. I've said it before, and I'll (sadly) have to keep saying it. We are the most favoured second founding chapter in existence. We have more toys than most of the first founding legions! If you think we haven't had love since 5th dropped feel sorry for the Salamanders, they even had one of their independent characters killed off!

 

We have the best troop options in the codex, really decent characters, Cenobytes, decent FW upgrades, the best value upgrade kit bar none.

 

Yes we suck on the table, but ALL marines suck on the table! Stop demanding exceptional treatment just for us, it won't achieve anything. What we need to suck less is for all marines to suck less.

 

Anywho, back to the topic, I suppose chainswords on Primaris would be nice. I wouldn't mind just being able to mix them into a Crusader Squad though, like in my kill team.

 

we dont get the love we had previous. And secound chapter/ifrst founding chapter doesnt mean anything.

 

Its about having a theme - and Templars have more of it like 90% of other chapters

 

Blood Angels dont get a own codex because of being a first founding chapter - they get it because of red thirst and Vamprie theme

 

Grey Knights are secound founding chapter too - but sooo special that you cant put them into Codex Space Marines because they have a very special own theme

 

and so on....

 

Look how different are Imperial FIsts to Ultramarines - not a big deal. Their warfare is really close and just collar and a few other things shows their difference

 

Black Templars have the own theme - Templar in Space - that is enough and far more than just a lore declaration for being first founding...

[redmapa]

 

why are you all so negative?

 

 

I've always tried to stay positive but Im not going to pretend like the last 8 years I've been playing this army have been good. I do agree that we shouldnt grovel in misery and I try to stay away from wish lists threads or things like that but here's why I hate our current status

 

6th edition: Easily the worst Chapter Tactics, lost everything that made me love the army like Vows, relics, fluff and the character of the army was changed from "Zealous intolerant killing machines drive to murder any psyker in sight" to "Lets worship mutants and psykers and wait for the Emperor to give us Librarians". Completely butchered the army in every single way, to this day I am still confused why they did this.

 

The worst part of the 5th to 6th transition was that everyone expected to get a new codex in the same vein as the DA/BA/SW got in 5th but instead we got a cold shower of disappointment and a codex that wasnt our own and had less of what made the army unique and traded that for more units, which I still think wasnt a good trade.

 

7th edition: More of the same as above, crap fluff is cemented, chapter tactics are even more useless unless you ran Black Tide and it was awful back then and it became worse as supplements came out a the shootier armies gained so many buffs that charging was suicide unless you had an invulnerable save and we didnt have that. Using the Gladius Formation meant that half our CT (Crusader Squads) was useless and the other half only benefited Elite units since they were the only ones good enough to work as an assault unit BUT it also meant that for it to work you had to lose a model and you dont want that with an Elite unit so the other half was also useless.

 

Then Angels of Death came out and that was quite the fiasco, one would think that since GW threw us in here we would get something in the supplement for our codex but surprise surprise! There was nothing we could use, same as the Gladius there were no formations useful or any detachment that gave us any benefit to our Chapter Tactic, if you wanted to use any of them you were better off using another Chapter Tactic, it was a load of :cuss that was counter-productive to us being in the Vanilla codex.

 

In the end we got Castellans of the Imperium in Gathering Storm, but that was just insult to injury since it was the end of the edition and everyone knew it and the formation itself required you to use other armies while not receiving many buffs. The ones that were benefited the most in Gathering Storm were Ultramarines with Guilliman.

 

8th ed: This is the best we have been since like 5th edition, the army works but it still suffers from the same issues as the previous two editions and that is that the army and the playstyle are not supported by the codex, everything pushes you to be shooty with very few incentives to be aggressive so we end up not being good at assault and not using the most of our own codex, one way or the other we are stuck in this weird limbo of suck.

 

Then the FAQ came out and our Chapter Tactic became just a bit more useless, before we could reliably deep strike and charge and use that to our advantage to survive and buffer our units but now its either rhino rush or die, quite boring in my opinion so its not like the FAQ did us any favor but no one cares about the bottom tier armies.

 

So yeah, I do think people have reasons to remain negative and while I try not to be I wont tell anyone what to do with their attitude and this forum reflects the past 8 years because I still remember this being a very active section of B&C but now its a husk as people simply moved away from the army because thats what happens when GW refuses to do anything meaningful with it

[Firepower]

Most of my negativity stems from not being able to clear the stench of all these dead horses out of the Eternal Crusader's ventilation.

[Medjugorje]

@redmapa - i stole your text and changed it a little bit to send it the FAQ Team.

 

Hi GW-Team

 

've always tried to stay positive but Im not going to pretend like the last 8 years I've been playing this army have been good. I do agree that we shouldnt grovel in misery and I try to stay away from wish lists threads or things like that but here's why I hate our current status

6th edition: Easily the worst Chapter Tactics, lost everything that made me love the army like Vows, relics, fluff and the character of the army was changed from "Zealous intolerant killing machines drive to murder any psyker in sight" to "Lets worship mutants and psykers and wait for the Emperor to give us Librarians". Completely butchered the army in every single way, to this day I am still confused why they did this.

The worst part of the 5th to 6th transition was that everyone expected to get a new codex in the same vein as the DA/BA/SW got in 5th but instead we got a cold shower of disappointment and a codex that wasnt our own and had less of what made the army unique and traded that for more units, which I still think wasnt a good trade.

7th edition: More of the same as above,  chapter tactics are even more useless unless you ran Black Tide and it was awful back then and it became worse as supplements came out a the shootier armies gained so many buffs that charging was suicide unless you had save rerolls (and so on) and we didnt have that. Using the Gladius Formation meant that half our CT (Crusader Squads) was useless and the other half only benefited Elite units since they were the only ones good enough to work as an assault unit BUT it also meant that for it to work you had to lose a model and you dont want that with an Elite unit so the other half was also useless - better said the enemy decided if you get your bonus or not. Many Black Templar players decided to change the army or even tabletop game.

Then Angels of Death came out and that was quite the fiasco, one would think that since GW threw us in here we would get something in the supplement for our codex but surprise surprise! There was nothing we could use, same as the Gladius there were no formations useful or any detachment that gave us any benefit to our Chapter Tactic, if you wanted to use any of them you were better off using another Chapter Tactic, it was a load of :cuss that was counter-productive to us being in the Vanilla codex.

In the end we got Castellans of the Imperium in Gathering Storm, but that was just insult to injury since it was the end of the edition and everyone knew it and the formation itself required you to use other armies while not receiving many buffs. The ones that were benefited the most in Gathering Storm were Ultramarines with Guilliman.

8th ed: This is the best we have been since like 5th edition, the army works but it still suffers from the same issues as the previous two editions and that is that the army and the playstyle are not supported by the codex, everything pushes you to be shooty with very few incentives to be aggressive so we end up not being good at assault and not using the most of our own codex, one way or the other we are stuck in this weird limbo of suck.

Then the FAQ came out and our Chapter Tactic became just a bit more useless. In fact the FAQ was needed and I love the decissions was made back then BUT - before we could reliably deep strike and charge and use that to our advantage to survive and buffer our units but now its either rhino rush or die, quite boring in my opinion so its not like the FAQ did us any favor but no one cares about the bottom tier armies (Space Marines on bottom and melee Codex Space Marines even more).

So yeah, I do think people have reasons to remain negative and while I try not to be I wont tell anyone what to do with their attitude and Bolter and Chainsword forum reflects the past 8 years because I still remember Black Templar part being a very active section of B&C but now its a husk as people simply moved away from the army because thats what happens when GW refuses to do anything meaningful with it.

[redmapa]

I'll send them that text today, if they at least get the impression of a concerted effort they may think its more than a couple people and actually do something.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Most of my negativity stems from not being able to clear the stench of all these dead horses out of the Eternal Crusader's ventilation.

Fortunately, if you flog a dead horse long and hard enough it becomes a fine pulpy mist, and the mighty fans can clear it.

 

So at least we have that to look forward to.

[Firepower]

 

Most of my negativity stems from not being able to clear the stench of all these dead horses out of the Eternal Crusader's ventilation.

Fortunately, if you flog a dead horse long and hard enough it becomes a fine pulpy mist, and the mighty fans can clear it.

 

So at least we have that to look forward to.

This is such a dead horse that the dead horse comments have become a dead horse. Maybe we should find a new animal to splat. How bad does flogged giraffe smell?

[Sete]

Smells like stagnant apathy which is even worse smell than dead horse.

[Medjugorje]

 

Most of my negativity stems from not being able to clear the stench of all these dead horses out of the Eternal Crusader's ventilation.

Fortunately, if you flog a dead horse long and hard enough it becomes a fine pulpy mist, and the mighty fans can clear it.

 

So at least we have that to look forward to.

 

 

Dead horse IN SPACE !!!!

in a Fantasy Science Fiction Setting means that its possible to rise again.

 

[Marshal Rohr]

My List

 

-Primaris Close Combat unit with pistols or shields

-Primaris Veteran unit with options for ranged or close assault

-Primaris Jetbikes with options for ranged or close assault

-Hellblaster equivalents with weapons that can alternate between flame and melta modes of fire

-Assault Grav Tank 

[Brother Sheep]

sorry to be so rude, but @redmapa, i think you read the wrong topic.

this is not the "im not a special snowflake anymore"-thread, but the "let me fantasice about maybe a Ork-BT Box, which is propably not going to happen, but it is fun to dream about it"-thread.

 

 

@topic.

Primaris EC. HELL YEAH

[Marshal Vespasian]

Primaris EC would be dope.

 

I think we would benefit a lot if all CC weapons grant +1 attack came back. And maybe then they could give chainswords and bolters - 1 AP. But I am not sure if that wouldn't :cuss up the balance across multiple codices.

[Arganias]

I really like the additional hits in combat on a 6+  against Chaos or psykers, or just not Imperium, basically give the BT the equivalent of Death to the False Emperor.

[Dark_Jober]

I really like the additional hits in combat on a 6+  against Chaos or psykers, or just not Imperium, basically give the BT the equivalent of Death to the False Emperor.

Chaos, Xenos, Psykers... I suppose BT specially hate ELDARS, so it could be nice a wording like:

 

• Additional hits on 6+ against units that haven't the IMPERIUM keyword (Chaos, Xenos... but too generic and not focused on Psykers)
• Or: Additional hits on 6+ against units that haven't the IMPERIUM keyword and can manifest psychic powers. (NON imperial Psykers only)

I suppose BT will not be happy fighting againts Grey Knights so that's the idea behind putting IMPERIUM keyword

[Schlitzaf]

I think the best fix for Black Templars would be the following three editions;

1) Biker Crusader Squads. Regular Biker Squads but may take Neophyte Bikers instead of Attack Bikes

2) Any time a Black Templar Model may take a flamer, they may instead take one of following instead.

-Power Sword

-Power Ax

-Power Maul

-Power Fist

3) Add one of the the following 2 clauses to the Black Templar Chapter Tactics:

—a) Black Templar Models armed with MELEE weapon that has an AP of -1 or more, may attack an additional time with that weapon

—b) A Black Templar Army may have a nominate a model to have a Warlord Trait. That model must have the CHAMPION Keyword (Chapter, Company and Emperor’s).

If 3b is chosen, have add the following two traits to the Black Templar ‘unique’ Warlord Traits

4) Two additional Warlord Traits

—a) Black Templar Units containing Models within 6” of the Warlord using a MELEE Weapon with an AP of -1 or greater may have those models attack an additional time with that weapon. If the model with this trait has CHAMPION Keyword, it affects all friendly Black Templar Models in the table instead

—b) Black Templar Units that are within 6” of the Warlord can shoot ASSAULT or RAPID FIRE weaponry, at enemy models within 1” of them during their shooting phase. If the Model with this trait has the CHAMPION keyword, all friendly Black Templar models are affected instead.

 

The point of these rules would be

a) Fix 1A Power Weapons. Which aren’t bad just inefficient (your paying 33% for 25% increase. Through Power Fists actually get weird here. In that it’s 100% increase of 50% increase in wound rate but 200% increase in damage rate).

b) Related to a, one of big issues fixing a is that in codex only two units have 1a power weapons (Assault Marines and Crusaders). This add another unit (Biker Crusaders) and makes it so Assault Marines can take Power Weapons. While allowing Crusader Squads a third power weapon.

c) If the Warlord Option is taken. It helps out our venerable Land Raider Crusaders. Whom can shoot hurricane bolters now in combat.

d) Warlord Option also is a simple mechanical method to reintroduce vows.

 

Ultimately the goal of these mechanics is setting up a clear and demonstrable difference between us, and blood angels. By instead of emphasizing elite units instead emphasizing our line units whom benefit the most from these style of buffs. What it doesn’t do is just try and make us Wolves/Blood Angels.

[Medjugorje]

Chapter Tactic:

-Reroll Charges and +1 Attack in first fight phase (after attack, being attacked or heroic intervention)

 

Rule changes:

-after Grimaldus lost his last wound, on a 4+ he is alive ( just once per game)

-Crusader squads can consolidate 6"

-a unit can disembark from a LRC 6" instead of 3"

 

Stratagem changes:

- Same stratagem but Chaplains deny on 3+

 

New Stratagems:

-secound Warlord trait: (just for CHAMPION) 2 CP

additional Warlord-Traits(always 6" bubbles) - choose of of follow

 

-Accept any challenge; +1 to hit but always have to attack if in 12" to an enemy

-Uphold the honor of the emperor:  6+++

-abhor the witch: 5+++ in psychic phase and the emperors champion can deny like a psyker and +1 attack against psykers

-suffern not the unclean to live:  +1 to wound but never applies as attacker (so never attack first because of charge)

 

Sigismunds Legacy: 1CP

- in close combat wound rolls of 6 gain one additional Mortal Wound

 

Dorns Legacy: 1 CP

- in close combat enemy get -1 to hit against one unit

 

Holy Orb; 1 CP

instead of firiing weapon user can throw 8" if hit d3 Mortal wounds

 

no pity, no remorse no fear 1CP

if in close combat - gain fearless rule

 

destroy them all 2CP

a unit BT can shoot against the nearest enemy unit a secound time

 

(dont know the english word - but "gesalbter Rumpf" was that rule in german in 4th edition ) 2CP

choose a land raider crusader - each damage against this model is halved

[Medjugorje]

and for sure:

 

Black Knight never loose: 3CP

a Charakter who dies never accept that an still stay on battlefield until next close combat phase. Reduce the WS to 6+ and Movement to 2"