Escalating enragement - Tales of story

[Focslain]

This might sound weird, but asking for a friend...

 

We have an IF player in my group's 'Tales of' event and his been doing poorly, like really bad. Some of us (well me and the DE player) have been trying to help him out will little success.

 

Issue is that he wants to play a mostly primaris force with a few dreads for support. We are doing this in 250 steps and are in the 1K-1250 level currently. What I'd like to do is group source some more info both to help him and myself* build better lists to handle the armies in our group.

 

For his opponents we have the follow:
Tau - battalion gun line with big suit support
Aeldari - Saim Hann, lots of bikers with cannons
Drukari - Homonculus coven, 4+ inv army wide plus FNP (also the event organizer)
Slaanesh Daemons - fiends and chariots, so fast as heck.
Imperial Knights (me) - Blame the DE player, he wanted a challenge. Sorry, not sorry.

 

I'm looking for a decently rounded list that can handle most of the armies above. At current we are playing with open war cards, but at 1500 we are switching to Maelstrom. This maxes out at 2K.

 

Detailed army lists of all players and steps (250 to 1250) are available on request.

 

* = I also play Ultramarines (no big G) so lessons learned here I hope to apply to my own primaris force.

[BitsHammer]

To start with, what is he running in his list? Having an idea of what he has and what he needs may help. Additionally, is he avoiding any units among the primaris specifically for personal reasons (such as Reivers who I see left out by many due to not liking how they look)? Finally, does he like to play gunline or mobile Imperial Fists? 

[Focslain]

To start with, what is he running in his list? Having an idea of what he has and what he needs may help. Additionally, is he avoiding any units among the primaris specifically for personal reasons (such as Reivers who I see left out by many due to not liking how they look)? Finally, does he like to play gunline or mobile Imperial Fists? 

 

From what I've seen the only units he seems to be avoid at current are the Redemptor dread (preferring the older ones), aggessors and the Replusor (does not like it aesthetically or points wise).

 

Here is his list up to 1K so far.

 

250pts

Captain in gravis armour

6x Interessors w/ stalker rifles

 

500pts

Captain in gravis armour

5x Interssors w/ auto bolt rifles

5x Interssors w/ auto bolt rifles

Ven Dread with twin lascannon and twin auto-cannons

(he did a gimmick list against me and the DE first which was a squad of helblasters in a bastion. Didn't work too well so he was allowed to change his list)

 

750pts

Captain in gravis armour

7x Interssors w/ auto bolt rifles

Ven Dread with twin lascannon and twin auto-cannons

Imperial Space Marine

5x Reivers w/ CCW and bolt pistols

5x Helblasters w/ plasma incinators

 

1000pts

2x Lieutenants w/ MC auto bolt rifles

5x Interssors w/ auto bolt rifles

5x Interssors w/ auto bolt rifles

5x Interssors w/ auto bolt rifles

Leviathan Dreadnaught w/ Cyclonic melta lance, siege claw with meltagun, 2x heavy flamers

5x Helblasters w/ plasma incinators

 

From what I can gather he wants to build a 'mobile castle' list. Originally set to have a few fortifications I think the local meta pushed him away from it which is sad because I like the concept. So gunline is the best I can narrow it down to. He has been building additional units just to paint and might make it into the final list. Below are the reserve untis I've seen him working on.

 

6x Centurions, at least three with lascannons

more reivers

has about 40 interssors done in total with plans for a final 60

an Ironclad dread (done)

a bastion (done)

 

Hope this helps and if you need any other info just ask.

[BitsHammer]

If he wants to go Mobile Castle (a concept I'm working towards myself at the moment) he's going to want to bring an Ancient with the Relic banner. Getting extra shots on a 3+ as the model goes down basically almost doubles your shooting phases.

 

If he's struggling with a lot of tanks then he needs to look at more lascannons, if it's hordes then a Repulsor might do the trick on getting the hordes thinned since it's got a lot of guns on what is basically a Land Raider with slightly worse save. Aggressors aren't bad, but they lack a delivery method for Imperial Fists, so a Repulsor could help with that as well. Especially worth it if you run the Storm of Fire warlord trait (more shots means more potential 6s and more potential -1AP buffs). The Repulsor likes Storm of Fire as well, so it's a plus. Plus you can use Repulsors to reduce drops if you don't stick Aggressors in them (a unit of Hellblasters, a Captain, Two Lts and an Ancient turn 6 drops (counting the Repulsor) into 1 drop) meaning he can go first more often, which can be very important for board control.

 

Basically with mobile castle he's going to want to try and claim centerboard at fast as he can. That usually will give him cover (assuming a board with large centerpiece terrain) and his army denies cover making him more likely to kill things when playing to his strengths.

 

Is he taking the grenade launcher upgrade? It's only 1 point and gives you a 30" grenade which can help balance the army more against T6 models or against multi-wound T3 (via Krak). It's worth looking into if he hasn't given them a try yet.

[Focslain]

I get what your saying, the repulsor didn't enter our mind due to the point cost in the lower levels, but since we are in the 1K+ ranage it can fit nicely. I'll talk to him about it. Though thinking on it, our group has a bit of anti-tank due to me (Imperial Knights) so not sure the Repulsor would last long.

 

As for table set up, my personal table at home tends to be a dense urban terrain with a strong center piece. At the FLGS we play at it's generally a desert table with a lot of little terrain pieces scattered and no real big center piece.

I wanted to give all as much information as possible so here is a summary of all the current lists and what I know thier future plans are.

 

 

1000 pts
Durkari
Battlion
Homonculus - Hex rifle, ichor injector, electocorrisive whip
Homonculus - Hex rifle, nightmare doll, ichor injector, electocorrisive whip, Master Regenerist
5 Wracks - electocorrisive whip, liquifier gun, Ossefactor
5 Wracks - electocorrisive whip, liquifier gun, Ossefactor
10 Wracks - electocorrisive whip, liquifier gun x2, Ossefactor
3 Grotesques
Talos - Macro-scalpel, twin liquifier gun, haywire blaster
Cronos - spirit probe, spirit vortex
Raider - Dark Lance, chains, trophies, shock prow, phantasm grenade launcher
Raider - Dark Lance, chains, trophies, shock prow, phantasm grenade launcher
Venom - Splinter cannon x2

 

Future Plans: more wracks and talos' plus a squad of scourages

 

Aeldari
Outrider
Farseer on bike - Singing Spear, Executioner, Mind War, Fate's Messenger, Phoenix gem
Vyper - Bright lance, Shuriken cannon
Vyper - Bright lance, Shuriken cannon
Vyper - Bright lance, Shuriken cannon
Hemlock Fighter - Two heavy D-Scythes
Outsider
Warlock Skyrunner - Singing Spear Embolden
3 Skyrunners - Shuriken Cannons
3 Skyrunners - Shuriken Cannons
3 Skyrunners - Shuriken Cannons
3 Skyrunners - Shuriken Cannons

 

Future Plans: Adding more Vypers and a few Fire Prisms

 

Tau
Battalion
Cadre Fireblade
Etheral on hover board w/ puretide chip, Rite of Devastation
3x 6 fire warriors
5 pathfinders
7 Tactical drones - 5 marker, 2 shield
Y'varha battlesuit - ABT
Riptide battlesuit - SMS, heavy burst cannon, ABT

 

Future Plans: From what I hear he had a broadside and will be doing mostly fire wrriors after this

 

(750)
Slaanesh Daemons
Vanguard
Herold of Slaanesh - Ravaging Claws, Celerity of Slaanesh
Fiends of Slaanesh x2
Fiends of Slaanesh x2
Fiends of Slaanesh x1
Outrider
Daemon Prince(ss) of Chaos - Soulseeker, wings
Hellflayer
Hellflayer
Seekers x5

 

Future plans: Will be adding another prince and some fiends. Unknown on the rest but heard another harold and maybe more chariots

 

(2000 pts)
Imperial knights
Castellan
Crusader w/ RFBC
Gallent
warglaive
Helverin x2

 

This is my full list, all list from the 1K (Castellan, warglaive, helverin) and up will use the above models, minor switch of the carapace weapons as points allow.

 

Adding the Ancient will be easy as I think he has one painted already and it makes sense. As for the grenade launchers I don't believe so which I will smack him for later.

[swordofmandulis]

In my opinion he needs to go for the hellblaster bubble of death, imperial fists don't do it best (dark angels do) but it's still really good, Chapter Master/captain, lieutenant, ancient. A good number of hellblaster, intercessors and scouts to screen and provide more fire, Bolt rifles are no joke, the auto and stalker aren't as good in my view. Then if he has the leviathan he is dividing his threats. The problem really here is that you guys are all playing pretty damn strong lists from strong armies, and he's playing marines.

[BitsHammer]

In my opinion he needs to go for the hellblaster bubble of death, imperial fists don't do it best (dark angels do) but it's still really good, Chapter Master/captain, lieutenant, ancient. A good number of hellblaster, intercessors and scouts to screen and provide more fire, Bolt rifles are no joke, the auto and stalker aren't as good in my view. Then if he has the leviathan he is dividing his threats. The problem really here is that you guys are all playing pretty damn strong lists from strong armies, and he's playing marines.

Concensius I've seen in other places is the auto bolters are good for certain builds, but for units that aren't supposed to be running amok on the table (or just running) the rifle looks better.

 

On the flipside, if using Hellblasters to hunt tougher elite units then taking the Assault version seems better since you can hit them twice from much further away and can basically spend the game sprinting around and shooting S6 everywhere. Mileage may vary, but it was an interesting idea to see.

[Focslain]

Was afriad of that, and we weren't really trying to build harsh lists, well not sure on the DE player. While his coven choice was done prior to looking at the rules his unit choices seem calculated.

 

Rest of us are just going to the themes we chose at the start.

 

So just to confirm:
- look into assault bolter and helblasters
- check on adding a Repulsor for AT and movement
- add an ancient for extra shots

 

About cover it?

[BitsHammer]

Was afriad of that, and we weren't really trying to build harsh lists, well not sure on the DE player. While his coven choice was done prior to looking at the rules his unit choices seem calculated.

 

Rest of us are just going to the themes we chose at the start.

 

So just to confirm:

- look into assault bolter and helblasters

- check on adding a Repulsor for AT and movement

- add an ancient for extra shots

 

About cover it?

Pretty much. There aren't a lot of things you can add to a pure Primaris army at the moment, so we can only really look at what tools we have and see if they work for how we want to play the army. Playing the mission is important as usual too.