Physical Aging - Astartes & Custodes

[b1soul]

Both are very long-lived, but it does appear that both do age very slowly.

 

Aged Astartes typically serve non-combat functions within the chapter.

Aged Custodes leave Terra and become Eyes of the Emperor.

 

 

I am assuming that they will each die of old age after many human life-spans.

 

Non-BA Astartes seem to show their age quite a bit after after many centuries or a millenium

 

Custodes seem to hold onto youth even longer. I think their coded mentions quite a few are a few millenia old.

 

Anyone have a different understanding?

[Brother Tyler]

This topic isn't a "Black Library" topic. It's about Adeptus Astartes and Adeptus Custodes lore. So I've moved it to Amicus Aedes (since the factions are covered in different categories/forums.

[Mellow]

Everyone will state how Dante is now like 1600 years old since the Great Rift opened. He seemed to be ok but I’m sure his face was aged looking. Probably only The Emperor and the Primarchs can avoid physical aging due to Warp trickery.

 

Dantioch was also old due to Hrud. Possibly even 3,000 years old (equivalent) although I can’t remember specifics from the novel that covered it. But he was proper creaking by that point.

[sarabando]

i remember in devastation of Baal alot of the non BA characters are shocked by how old Dante looks.

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

Everyone will state how Dante is now like 1600 years old since the Great Rift opened. He seemed to be ok but I’m sure his face was aged looking. Probably only The Emperor and the Primarchs can avoid physical aging due to Warp trickery.

 

Dantioch was also old due to Hrud. Possibly even 3,000 years old (equivalent) although I can’t remember specifics from the novel that covered it. But he was proper creaking by that point.

Dantioch was estimated by Legion apothecaries to have been aged by some 3000 years, yes. Hrud'll do that to you. So they can clearly live to a ripe old age, if war doesn't take them first. But immortal they are not (not even as Dreadnoughts).

[MyD4rkPassenger]

I'm pretty sure the codex states Custodes are nearly immune to the effects of aging, however if you do get so old and you're not dead or in a dreadnought you are taken off "active duty."  They cite their reflexes, while still leagues ahead of any other being, are not at the same caliber as their younger brethren.  They then go to the spy networks, espionage, information gathering portion required of the job of guarding the palace and the Emperor.  So not really old in the sense they become withered, but not at the physical expectation level the Custodes set for themselves.

 

I'd say honestly its the same for the space marines as well, just did some looking and while they possibly age faster it seems relative in the sense that we haven't seen one reach an age that could be considered like an eye of the emperor custodian.  Our two oldest examples are Dante, who we all know is still in full active duty, and Bjorn who is unfortunately a dreadnought.  

 

I'd warrant to say both will eventually die of old age, however have there ever been any examples of aging being halted by marines going into their restorative coma?  I don't think Custodes have a similar genetic functionality but their more extensive gene manipulation more than makes up for it.

[Master Commander Ajax]

Gravius, a Salamander Space Marine was 10,000 years old when he was rediscovered by his Chapter. at this point, he was incredibly frail and was mercy killed.

 

Rogal Dorn was also very old by the time he was killed. Notably, he was much less efficient than his Horus Heresy heyday but was still on active duty and still a credible swordsman.

 

From the more recent fluff, it seems to me that Space Marines do age but are also immortal, withering and becoming frail with extreme old age. This seems credible to me as Space Marines aren't expected to live that long given their nature and so this wouldn't really seem to be a problem.

[PeteySödes]

Seems like the wolves show their age in a standard way, greying hair etc. I can't recall any examples of them speaking about "feeling" their age though or getting put to pasture.

[m0nolith]

Astartes can live naturally up to around 3000 years, according to Dantioch, but the question is how long they can live and remain combat effective. At 1600+ years old Dante can still fight well while at 3k years old Dantioch can't. Custodes on the other end live and remain functional a lot longer, but we don't have the specifics on how long that is.

 

The question I want to ask is why was this long life genetic quirk been implemented in the Blood Angels, while it hasn't in others?

I'm of the belief that the original plan for the Emperor is to have the Astartes go the way of the Thunder Warriors though a controlled and planned Heresy, those plans having been cancelled due to Horus and his underestimation of how strong Chaos is (Malcador: First lord of the Imperium).

Maybe the BA were intended to be kept around a little longer than others for some purpose, and then when that's been done doing away with them later with a Custodes Implemented culling a la Mount Arrarat. 

[PeteySödes]

Astartes can live naturally up to around 3000 years, according to Dantioch, but the question is how long they can live and remain combat effective. At 1600+ years old Dante can still fight well while at 3k years old Dantioch can't. Custodes on the other end live and remain functional a lot longer, but we don't have the specifics on how long that is.

 

The question I want to ask is why was this long life genetic quirk been implemented in the Blood Angels, while it hasn't in others?

I'm of the belief that the original plan for the Emperor is to have the Astartes go the way of the Thunder Warriors though a controlled and planned Heresy, those plans having been cancelled due to Horus and his underestimation of how strong Chaos is (Malcador: First lord of the Imperium).

Maybe the BA were intended to be kept around a little longer than others for some purpose, and then when that's been done doing away with them later with a Custodes Implemented culling a la Mount Arrarat. 

 

That would square too possibly with the SW and Salamanders examples being in the trefoil. Good question though about the BA though. Unfortunately, i'm not sure we'll get an answer.

[Mellow]

Well Astartes are just humans with extra organs plugged in but Custodians are humans that are rewritten at the genetic level. The word “rewoven” comes to mind. Not sure why. I’m sure the Custodians are functionally immortal to a magnitude much greater than the Astartes.

 

Like people suggest. It’s quite a strong possibility that Astartes were merely s longer term stop gap like the Thunder Warriors.

[helterskelter]

Csm are old, age unknown but I very much doubt Khârn/Ahriman/cypher/Abbadon are chilling out in the mid hundreds.

We can also argue warp shenanigans/god infused for their longevity

[PeteySödes]

Csm are old, age unknown but I very much doubt Khârn/Ahriman/cypher/Abbadon are chilling out in the mid hundreds.

We can also argue warp shenanigans/god infused for their longevity

 

Oh totally, almost too many variables there to have a thoughtful discussion though! :D

[Kinstryfe]

If I had to make the closest thing to a real world comparison I can think of, I'd say they're probably kind of like some crustaceans. Some are "functionally immortal" in that they won't ever die of old age, but their bodies do get increasingly poor at managing energy so they will eventually likely die to complications from molting their shells. I imagine Astartes like that, so instead of organ failure and what humans see in old age their body simply gets to a point where it can't properly do all of the things required of it. I don't think it's ever been definitively stated anywhere one way or another but we know that they do show signs of aging, so eventually that has to catch up with them.

 

As for The Emperor planning to phase out Astartes, iirc Astartes weren't part of his original plan at all. He wanted a whole bunch of Primarchs, but Astartes were the best he could do after the twenty got whisked away. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they were going to be purged after the Galaxy was reconquered, mostly because of the irony involved in it proving Horus right.

[Stoic Raptor]

It's hard to know what the maximum natural lifespan of an Astartes is, as nearly every last one dies in battle sooner or later.  It's inevitable in a life of total war.

As for the Custodes?  It is rumored that some of them might still be alive from 10,000 years ago.  No concrete evidence but there are even rumors that Valdor still lives.  

[mc warhammer]

fairly certain one of the Bl books stated that the astartes came to realise over time they weren't functionally immortal after all

[Lord_Caerolion]

If I had to make the closest thing to a real world comparison I can think of, I'd say they're probably kind of like some crustaceans. Some are "functionally immortal" in that they won't ever die of old age, but their bodies do get increasingly poor at managing energy so they will eventually likely die to complications from molting their shells. I imagine Astartes like that, so instead of organ failure and what humans see in old age their body simply gets to a point where it can't properly do all of the things required of it. I don't think it's ever been definitively stated anywhere one way or another but we know that they do show signs of aging, so eventually that has to catch up with them.

 

As for The Emperor planning to phase out Astartes, iirc Astartes weren't part of his original plan at all. He wanted a whole bunch of Primarchs, but Astartes were the best he could do after the twenty got whisked away. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they were going to be purged after the Galaxy was reconquered, mostly because of the irony involved in it proving Horus right.

 

I actually like that idea. Something that is still included in the background, but never really touched on, is that the Astartes organs require a continual regimen of medical upkeep to keep them working. It could be that as the Astartes age, it becomes more difficult for these organs to be kept in balance, which eventually can lead to complications.

[helterskelter]

Wasn't there a tidbit of blood angels fluff from a while back that had something to do with blood infusions and sleeping in a sarcophagus that helped them age better?

[The Unseen]

Wasn't there a tidbit of blood angels fluff from a while back that had something to do with blood infusions and sleeping in a sarcophagus that helped them age better?

Nope.

That is theorized to help keep the Red Thirst/Black Rage at bay, though it's very iffy on it actually doing anything of the sort, but they try anyway.

 

My chapter, the Charnel Guard, a heavily suspected BA successor, explicitly spend time between campaigns in straight up stasis, but for reasons unknown...

[Quantum]

Interestingly, the fact that Space Marines get so old indicates that geneseed does not 'just' produce additional organs that boost a human body to superhuman levels; something changes on a genetic level too.

 

Current understanding of genetics says that aging is caused by the never-ending cellular replication, or more specifically, the replication of DNA strands. This process is not perfect, so errors in the DNA start to appear creating less efficient (or even dead) cells and less efficient tissue, and perhaps even limited to a set number or replications.

 

If Space Marines are avoiding this, or at least slowing it down, the Emperor must somehow have improved on this natural process. No idea which implant would be responsible, though.

[Tyriks]

Black Legion series had Sigismund at about a thousand and commented on how aged he was. They talked about how his reflexes were still good but nothing like what they were in his prime, and how probably only his devotion and hatred were keeping him going.

[Elzender]

Interestingly, the fact that Space Marines get so old indicates that geneseed does not 'just' produce additional organs that boost a human body to superhuman levels; something changes on a genetic level too.

 

Current understanding of genetics says that aging is caused by the never-ending cellular replication, or more specifically, the replication of DNA strands. This process is not perfect, so errors in the DNA start to appear creating less efficient (or even dead) cells and less efficient tissue, and perhaps even limited to a set number or replications.

 

If Space Marines are avoiding this, or at least slowing it down, the Emperor must somehow have improved on this natural process. No idea which implant would be responsible, though.

Well, there are currently some experiments with telomerase, on of the main enzymes responsible for protection of DNA during replication, so maybe 28000 more years of science might get us somewhere in this regard. Since the increased growth of marines would probably impact the DNA "degradation" rate as well, it's probable that the Emperor and his team corrected it to avoid increased tumour formation on most tissues and organs; the longevity/functional immortality might even be just a byproduct of this.

[b1soul]

@ Tyriks

 

Yes...I swear I've read other passages (forget where) about creaky "retired" SM veterans in their 500s or 600s...could someone confirm?

[Lord_Caerolion]

I believe it's the Ultramarines fluff that has Cassius as one of the oldest Ultramarines, and only being 600 or so, and he's described as being somewhat elderly, at least as Space Marines are concerned.

[m0nolith]

I believe it's the Ultramarines fluff that has Cassius as one of the oldest Ultramarines, and only being 600 or so, and he's described as being somewhat elderly, at least as Space Marines are concerned.

I remember reading that in the 2nd ed Ultramarines codex, but how valid is that lore now?

Its from the mid 90s.