HH 5? - The Buried Dagger

[karden00]

*Typhon ***looking up*** to Luther.

 

 

I've been bored to yawns by the Death Guard for most of the HH, and almost equally so by the DA, but man, that relationship has some real potential to explore. 

I know, Thorpe has hardly been a selling point to most, based on what I've read here, but...

Something about AoC really had me going. 

[Tymell]

As with many others, I have my concerns about these two books with James Swallow at the helm. I don't feel he's a bad writer, but most of his works hover around the "okay/decent" mark for me, with only a handful ascending above that. In that regard he's pretty consistent, but it's consistently average, with occasional dips above or below that.

 

I'm hoping Garro's role in Buried Dagger is kept to a minimum, just because the Death Guard really need a book to themselves. They've had the least coverage of any of the legions, and this particular book has been a long time coming. Garro being part of it I understand, but I hope it doesn't dilute what should be the focus here.

 

Re: Sanguinius, I'm one of those (few?) who don't mind Fear to Tread, I liked parts of it, while others don't hold up so well. But given the weakness of the characterisation in it, I don't think Swallow would be my first pick for that Primarchs book. Then again, Gav Thorpe probably wouldn't have been my first pick for Lorgar's, and I felt that was great, so who knows?

[rookie40K]

I listened to the Fear To Tread audiobook a lot of times. The first time there were parts I hated with parts I loved. After several listens I think it’s fantastic. Even the parts I initially thought were not good I now see differently. I think Swallow is a great choice for writing about Death Guard. I love the Garro series (can’t get enough) and I thought Flight of Eisenstein was good. Just my experience and opinions folks.

[mc warhammer]

yeah, i'm also hoping for swallow to pull a thorpe "lorgar' out on this one.

 

i think one of the reasons i find garro so boring is he did't feel very death guardish to me. i know he was terran, but he was still a bit MOR for my tastes in FotE. maybe we see more in the subsequent books/audio, but i skipped them all.

[bluntblade]

Second that.

[Ashur]

Didn't Nuceria figure prominently in Betrayer as well? Was that disappointing to you?

 

A little. Perhaps because after years of Nuceria being described as a planet of monsters depraved enough to scar a primarch for life, I had my own vision of what it should look like.

Of course Barbarus has already been described in detail for years, so the only thing that I think should be left to our imagination is the exact nature of its rulers.

[b1soul]

Well, Nuceria was capable of scarring an infant primarch

 

That said, how they contained an adult, Nails-fueled Angron poses an interesting question.

[SkimaskMohawk]

I mean, humanity being that monstrous is appropriate for 40k imo.

 

And Im not sure how long angron was on nuceria, but I have the feeling that his rampage started around the time he stopped growing.

[Marshal Loss]

Angron was not an adult when he was 'contained'. That means he actually matured to adulthood with half his brain removed (the Emperor's project must have been pretty resilient to accommodate that kind of trauma and still grow to adulthood). In any case, they didn't contain him very well. I don't think there's any information on how long he was there for.

 

 

 

Which one of us was a child enslaved on a world of monsters, with his brain cut up by carving knives?

 

 

In any case, I don't think the nature of Barbarus' rulers should be elaborated on. I prefer the mystery.

[Lord_Caerolion]

No, but he was certainly an adult by the time the Emperor found him. At the very least, he was fully grown.

[Marshal Loss]

Obviously. I was musing more on the fact that he presumably grew to adulthood after having the nails put in, which is an interesting idea. Post was in the midst of an edit

[Lord_Caerolion]

Ah, fair enough. Definitely agree with the stuff about the original rulers of Barbarus, I want those kept vague, and certainly not to be Dark Eldar.

[Fire Golem]

I never got the impression they were Dark Eldar. Can DE even survive like that permanently outside Commoragh/the Webway?

[Marshal Loss]

There's no indication at all they were Dark Eldar, it's just a fan theory that seems to have gained a lot of traction - enough, at least, to constantly spring up on other message boards.

[Lord_Caerolion]

I never got the impression they were Dark Eldar. Can DE even survive like that permanently outside Commoragh/the Webway?

 

Hence my dislike of the theory. Sadly, there's a theory that's gained a decent amount of support that basically latches onto the whole "they use Frankenstein-esque creatures" to mean "they must be Haemonculi". The fact that Typhon is rumoured to be descended from them, or at least partially, makes me more go with the theory that they're an extreme variation of Abhuman.

[Orwell84]

 

I never got the impression they were Dark Eldar. Can DE even survive like that permanently outside Commoragh/the Webway?

 

Hence my dislike of the theory. Sadly, there's a theory that's gained a decent amount of support that basically latches onto the whole "they use Frankenstein-esque creatures" to mean "they must be Haemonculi". The fact that Typhon is rumoured to be descended from them, or at least partially, makes me more go with the theory that they're an extreme variation of Abhuman.

 

 

Indeed. Being Barbaran equivalents to the Black Judges that preyed on Olympia would be better IMHO than being Dark Eldar.

 

Be interesting too to find out how, if Typhon really did have their blood in his veins, he was accepted as an initiate in the first place. Putting aside Morty and the Imperium's hatred of mutants, there's the question of how Typhon's body didn't go haywire when 'normal' humans have a low enough survival rate.

[b1soul]

Original rulers of Barbarus...weren't they the necromancer-xenos?

[bluntblade]

"Thrice the height of a man" and unable to reproduce. I've never heard the DE rumour before, and don't care for it.

[Morovir]

It seems that the short story "Unification" from the LE Lords of Silence novel gives a description of the rulers of Barbarus, and it definitely seems like something new - not a Dark Eldar or anything.

 

When the Pale King shows itself, he [Vorx] can barely stifle a scream. It is huge, only loosely man-shaped and proportioned, the outsized stuff of horror-dreams, limping on two misshapen legs and clad in stiff rags. It has a long, bloodless face, drooping like thrown cream, a mouth that twists into an unbalanced kind of dewy smile. Its eyes are filmy and pupil-free, its fingers longer than Vorx's forearm.

"It slides fully into view, towering over the buildings. It seems blind, shambling aimlessly. Its lips part , and a white tongue briefly licks out, tasting the air.

The Pale King slowly twists, staring blearily down at him, and Vorx can see the deep-puckered flesh of its face, moonlight-white, bovine-stupid, heavy folds of loose skin quivering as it moves."

 

 

Credit to Dreadnautilus from r/40klore

[b1soul]

Perhaps a DE haemonculus who went crazy with the mutilations/modifications...doubt it though. Sounds like something new

[Sandlemad]

 

 

I never got the impression they were Dark Eldar. Can DE even survive like that permanently outside Commoragh/the Webway?

 

Hence my dislike of the theory. Sadly, there's a theory that's gained a decent amount of support that basically latches onto the whole "they use Frankenstein-esque creatures" to mean "they must be Haemonculi". The fact that Typhon is rumoured to be descended from them, or at least partially, makes me more go with the theory that they're an extreme variation of Abhuman.

 

 

Indeed. Being Barbaran equivalents to the Black Judges that preyed on Olympia would be better IMHO than being Dark Eldar.

 

Be interesting too to find out how, if Typhon really did have their blood in his veins, he was accepted as an initiate in the first place. Putting aside Morty and the Imperium's hatred of mutants, there's the question of how Typhon's body didn't go haywire when 'normal' humans have a low enough survival rate.

 

 

Typhon's connection to the xenos overlords of Barbarus (which was always ambiguous) seems to have been firmly downgraded to 'in-universe rumour' with the publication of Lords of Silence. In it, when reminiscing on the origin of the in-legion name 'Unbroken', he recalls the first meeting between Mortarion and the terran Dusk Raiders on Barbarus. He was in the ranks of the Dusk Raiders.

 

Any DE connection would just be another symptom of small-universe disease. There's room for a variety of twisted xenos/abhuman tyrants that prey on humans.

[Moonreaper666]

Perhaps a DE haemonculus who went crazy with the mutilations/modifications...doubt it though. Sounds like something new

There are plenty of other alien species that would disturb humanity like this

 

Or maybe another experiment during the Dark Age of Technology

[bluntblade]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I never got the impression they were Dark Eldar. Can DE even survive like that permanently outside Commoragh/the Webway?

Hence my dislike of the theory. Sadly, there's a theory that's gained a decent amount of support that basically latches onto the whole "they use Frankenstein-esque creatures" to mean "they must be Haemonculi". The fact that Typhon is rumoured to be descended from them, or at least partially, makes me more go with the theory that they're an extreme variation of Abhuman.

Indeed. Being Barbaran equivalents to the Black Judges that preyed on Olympia would be better IMHO than being Dark Eldar.

 

Be interesting too to find out how, if Typhon really did have their blood in his veins, he was accepted as an initiate in the first place. Putting aside Morty and the Imperium's hatred of mutants, there's the question of how Typhon's body didn't go haywire when 'normal' humans have a low enough survival rate.

Typhon's connection to the xenos overlords of Barbarus (which was always ambiguous) seems to have been firmly downgraded to 'in-universe rumour' with the publication of Lords of Silence. In it, when reminiscing on the origin of the in-legion name 'Unbroken', he recalls the first meeting between Mortarion and the terran Dusk Raiders on Barbarus. He was in the ranks of the Dusk Raiders.

 

Any DE connection would just be another symptom of small-universe disease. There's room for a variety of twisted xenos/abhuman tyrants that prey on humans.

That would explain how he was able to pursue a rank in the Librarius before it was shut down.

 

The Stygian Scrolls make the overlords of Barbarus sound utterly unlike any man, and possibly not far from a Primarch's level of power.

[Mellow]

Definitely Xeno’s due to them using humans as slaves but they were nexromancers as well. Not sure if many races use necromancy so hopefully they are a “new” / other species.