Rate what you Read, or the fight against Necromancy

[Fedor]

True, it suggests a Khârn that stayed much the same from circa Betrayer through to becoming the betrayer. I'd prefer to see a more Khornate version than that by the time he "dies" at the siege.A midway stage towards the singular monster he becomes after Skalathrax.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Fedor

[Gongsun Zan]

Finally up to date in the Siege series so I thought I'd post a short review on LaTD and TFW. In contrast to what I've seen everywhere, I actually quite liked LaTD. 

 

 

I fully agree with your review of both books. 

 

From what I've seen I think quite a few people who like LaTD (myself included) tend to be less charmed by TFW (and vice versa). I wonder how much of it can be chalked up to the overlapping subject-matter of both books and the particular quirks of each author. 

Edited May 6, 2020 by Gongsun Zan

[SkimaskMohawk]

I think the problems with LaTD are more focussed around the primarch interaction and Solar War just being very good in general; it was a rough comparison for LatD. TFW had some very high quality parts, but it had a lot of very, very dumb things on top of more jarring character representations.

[byrd9999]

Legacies of Betrayal (Book 31 HH) - various authors.

 

Some great pieces in here, including more of the awesome Chris Wraight's awesome White Scars in the "Brotherhood of the Storm" novella.

 

Two more superb ADB pieces, both World Eater-related (still one of my least favourite legions, but always gripping in the hands of ADB).

 

The remainder are mostly prose versions of audio dramas. Many of these I have heard before and enjoyed immensely.

 

A special mention also for Guy Haley's Hunter's Moon. A story set aboard a fishing vessel, told in flashback by a human about the time Astartes crashed onto their planet. Such a low-key tale, but very well told.

 

Working my way through the HH in chronological book order, this collection of short stories was the first where I felt disadvantaged due to the seemingly random nature of what was included. pre-Scars White Scars, some more Calth, a pre-Calth Angron, back to Isstvan V, an Annandale short "Veritas Ferrum", which precedes the previous HH Book 30, Damnation of Pythos, and would have been more helpful to have read before.

 

I'm thinking of mining future anthologies for related shorts, so I can read them in the best order. Can anyone recommend an easy-to-follow HH chronology?

 

Overall, 8/10

[Roomsky]

Legacies of Betrayal (Book 31 HH) - various authors.

 

Some great pieces in here, including more of the awesome Chris Wraight's awesome White Scars in the "Brotherhood of the Storm" novella.

 

Two more superb ADB pieces, both World Eater-related (still one of my least favourite legions, but always gripping in the hands of ADB).

 

The remainder are mostly prose versions of audio dramas. Many of these I have heard before and enjoyed immensely.

 

A special mention also for Guy Haley's Hunter's Moon. A story set aboard a fishing vessel, told in flashback by a human about the time Astartes crashed onto their planet. Such a low-key tale, but very well told.

 

Working my way through the HH in chronological book order, this collection of short stories was the first where I felt disadvantaged due to the seemingly random nature of what was included. pre-Scars White Scars, some more Calth, a pre-Calth Angron, back to Isstvan V, an Annandale short "Veritas Ferrum", which precedes the previous HH Book 30, Damnation of Pythos, and would have been more helpful to have read before.

 

I'm thinking of mining future anthologies for related shorts, so I can read them in the best order. Can anyone recommend an easy-to-follow HH chronology?

 

Overall, 8/10

 

Have a gander at Tymell's reading order: https://rateyourmusic.com/list/Tymell/the-horus-heresy-series-a-chronological-reading-guide/

[Gongsun Zan]

Peter Fehervari, The Thirteenth Psalm - 10/10

 

Anybody interested in Warhammer Horror needs to read this short. 

 

One of my annoyances about Maledictions is how you could remove most of the Warhammer elements from the stories, and they would still more or less read the same. I don't think you could say the same of The Thirteenth Psalm, which fully embraces and is elevated by the uniqueness of the setting - specifically, the uniqueness of the Angels Penitent, which is something than I think only truly works in 40k. 

 

On this note, PF does a lot to flesh out the Angels Penitent in a very short amount of time (which is unsurprising, given how much he had managed to accomplish in A Crown of Thorns, which was like 5 pages long). Just as an example, I love how much this one quote says about the Angels Penitent:

 

"The Emperor's condemns!" we chorused reverently, though Veland held his tongue. It is a sin to abstain from responding to the First Psalm; however the prohibitions of silence upon the young warrior was a graver ordinance. He would still be punished for the omission once the mission was over, but I would be merciful.

 

The Thirteenth Psalm also avoids my other problem with Maledictions, which relies too much on the reader/characters being unfamiliar with the horrors of the 40k universe, who respond typically in the ways we expect them to (of course there's a genestealer on board that Space Hulk; of course that tech-priest can't help but wander onto that Space Hulk). Here, we might see the same common 40k tropes at play (xenos uprising, heretic Slaaneshi witch, etc.), but it feels fresh because the focus is always on how the extreme philosophy of the narrator responds to such tropes. 

 

For example, while a lesser author might have made the Slaaneshi witch or the possessed space marine the core of the story, both are promptly disregard by the narrator, who is far more horrified by the fact that his squad mates have not fully embraced the insane philosophy of his chapter

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Beren]

Honestly, I think you could say thatany body interested in Warhammer Horror needs to read Fehervaris' Black Library pieces in general.

[Gongsun Zan]

ADB, Black Legion

 

I’ve never been able to finish either of the Black Legion books in single read-through. Both times I’ve given up halfway, only to try again because they keep cropping up in people’s Top 10 lists.

 

I just don’t care for Khayon. I find him self-absorbed and self-pitying, and I find his constant references to how different the future is (as compared to the “present” of his narrative) to be an exercise in telling instead of showing. I couldn’t get invested with his feud with Daravek, who felt more like a plot device for Khayon to learn to be angry, and never really felt like a properly developed antagonist (and he gets completely overshadowed in the last third of the novel anyway).  

 

The best parts of the book are when Khayon shuts up about how great Abaddon is, and we actually get to see Abaddon make decisions and do things (the ending chapter is an excellent example). As much as I want to avoid judging a book by my own notions of what I think it should have been, I think a Black Legion novel would have been more interesting if we could have seen Abaddon from the POV of multiple legionnaires, especially given the cobbled-together nature of the legion. Instead, the supporting cast is pretty much left to the side here – it’s a pity, because I think the supporting cast in the Night Lords trilogy were what really elevated that series, making their absence here all the more strongly felt.

 

I know I’m in a very small minority on this, but I can’t score this higher than  4/10; To Taste.

Edited May 14, 2020 by Gongsun Zan

[DarkChaplain]

While I wouldn't be quite so harsh, I actually agree on a few points. Daravek, to me, was more interesting for what he represented (e.g. a different candidate for Warmaster) than what or who he was. I didn't care for the bloke one bit.

Definitely didn't enjoy Black Legion as much as I did Talon of Horus, generally. It felt more meandering to me; Talon had a tangible quest for the warband that seemed to pay off by the end. Black Legion was more about Khayon's mental barriers. It still showcased very cool and interesting bits, but I felt more disconnected from the Black Legion itself than I was from the warband in Talon. Khayon felt replacable in the grand scheme of things, but at the same time, I didn't really feel like the scope of the growing Black Legion was really shown properly.

 

I'm a sucker for first person narratives of the type, so I still liked it, and Khayon's delusions. But still, unlike Talon, which I re-read before Black Legion, I have little desire to re-read the latter. If I remember correctly, I also took longer to finish it than the first book, and found it very easy to put it down. And then in the end, we still haven't gotten Abaddon to pick up Drach'nyen, for all the foreshadowing and being told it was next up. With AD-B's schedule being what it is, and the Spears and Siege both taking priority, I honestly don't know when, if ever, we'll be seeing that part of the story anyway.

 

With Talon, I felt like the novel was complete and satisfying on its own, both for its ties to other works (including Josh's Repairer of Ruin audio drama, but also Heresy plotlines) and for its charting of the Legion wars and the theft of Horus' corpse. It did a lot of things well in the worldbuilding department while having strong characters and a theme of brotherhood. I didn't feel that nearly as strongly with Black Legion, and overall the novel felt like that middle book cliche, a bridge to a bigger story. In a way, of course, it is just a stepping stone for Abaddon, but the way it was presented, I feel like it needed a follow up much sooner than Talon did.

 

And yes, Khayon often seems to mention things that sound more interesting than current events in BL. It's kind of a letdown, in some fashion.

[bluntblade]

I thought the foreshadowing had said that Khayon wasn't going to skip ahead, and thought the Imperium should know how they got to the Black Crusades. But skipping some of the Legion's formative decades is a fair point.

[Gongsun Zan]

 

 

With Talon, I felt like the novel was complete and satisfying on its own, both for its ties to other works (including Josh's Repairer of Ruin audio drama, but also Heresy plotlines) and for its charting of the Legion wars and the theft of Horus' corpse. It did a lot of things well in the worldbuilding department while having strong characters and a theme of brotherhood.

I would agree with this. In fact, I would even agree that having Khayon as a narrator works well for the purposes of Talon.

 

But I'm not sure what works for Talon still works for Black Legion - there's a part in Black Legion where Khayon is reduced to live streaming the Legion's boarding action, which to me felt a bit like cheating on the idea of a first person viewpoint.

[DarkChaplain]

Good point, that. Adding to the Daravek thing, as of the Siege of Terra, we now also have Layak and co billing Abaddon as Horus' successor for Warmaster so hard, talking about how the Gods already picked him, it's inevitable etc, that Daravek's bid for the job in Black Legion becomes even more hollow than simply by the reader knowing he won't succeed. At least for a while there, Daravek might have had a real chance, but if Abaddon's rise was preordained since before Horus even went the way of the dodo, that kind of takes the tension out of the conflict. It's not a criticism of Black Legion, though, more with the direction they've taken some aspects during the Siege so far.

 

As for time skips, they're fine in principle. But for Black Legion, I'd say that it suffers for the skip in character relations. No, we probably didn't need to see much of Khayon going after Daravek. There's also a little bit of character and worldbuilding in the shorts - although one of them STILL hasn't been republished, as far as I'm aware, so tough luck. But the whole "brotherhood" angle that was so important in Talon kind of felt flat in Legion, with the ones we knew from before less involved with one another, which also had something to do with Khayon's hunt for Daravek. There was more distance between characters, I felt. Yes, it was part of the narrative, and the Black Legion grew significantly since the last time we saw them, but it somehow made me wonder why Khayon was still harping on about the values of their brotherhood at the end of M41.

 

Still, I'd very much like to read book three, if it ever happens. If I remember correctly, there were some things about the post-Cadia fluff that AD-B didn't quite approve of or worried might conflict with his plans? No idea. Either way, I'd rather read book 3 than the sequel to Spears of the Emperor, at this point.

[cheywood]

Still, I'd very much like to read book three, if it ever happens. If I remember correctly, there were some things about the post-Cadia fluff that AD-B didn't quite approve of or worried might conflict with his plans? No idea. Either way, I'd rather read book 3 than the sequel to Spears of the Emperor, at this point.

In an amusing coincidence ADB just posted this image of BL 3’s dramatis personae: https://mobile.twitter.com/adembskibowden/status/1260896977656610817/photo/1

 

And a reply to that tweet indicates the series is still intended as more than a trilogy, so I look forward to the conclusion sometime in the late 2040s (assuming we’re all still here).

Edited May 14, 2020 by cheywood

[DarkChaplain]

Bloody finally. I hope it'll reconcile some of the Siege developments Abaddon has been getting, too.

I wouldn't even know if it'd surprise me more if we got this or Penitent first.

[Roomsky]

Nemesis – James Swallow (re-read)

 

Call me crazy friends, but this was actually pretty good. Leaps and bounds ahead of the man’s other Heresy works, at least for me.

 

First of all, this book is full of things I would have liked to see more of throughout the series. We have a planet shaking itself apart because Horus is coming and the Imperium can’t afford to defend them. We have a cast of non-astartes dealing with their larger than life “protectors” turning against them. Perhaps most importantly, the book doesn’t forget who the Warmaster is, and his Sons feature prominently. There’s a bunch of great details here that flesh out the galaxy the war is taking place in, and I wish it was more common.

 

I don’t like Swallow’s astartes as protagonists. They’re dull, interchangeable, and frustratingly overdramatic (though he’s not the only author guilty of this). His humans are a bit tropey, but I can believe they exist. Sabrat’s frustration with his superiors makes him immediately endearing. Each of the assassins is recognizable and has at least one quirk that would set them apart from their clade stereotype. They all develop appropriately, and are proven rather fragile by the end of things. And, in a tough act to balance, they each contribute significantly to Spear’s demise. Atop that we get a unique look at Terra, a legitimate argument from Dorn about why assassins are bad news, and I always enjoy Swallow’s Malcador and Horus.

It’s certainly not without fault. Like all of Swallow’s books, it’s too long. This is felt most while the execution force is assembling, we didn’t need a mission example for the majority of the team; it made the surrounding chapters more than a bit repetitive. This is compounded by smaller issues such as the cartoonish characterization of the Clade sires, Spear’s existence making questionable sense, the plot being somewhat cliched, and the fact that the assassin clades are apparently identical to their 40k selves. I think it would have been far more interesting if a new clade was developed for this mission specifically.

 

It’s easy to dismiss this book if you’re just looking for plot advancement, but if you appreciate a novel that does a lot to texture the setting and has a nice premise to break up some of the Heresy’s more monotonous elements, I give it an easy recommendation.

 

8/10

To Taste

 

 

Angron: Slave of Nuceria – Ian St Martin (re-read)

 

A reviewer on Goodreads suggested this is a horror novel in the trappings of military sci-fi. I have to agree, this book is disturbing and I love it.

 

It does unfortunately have a weak beginning and epilogue. Mago is introduced and starts cracking skulls before we know why we should care, and the setup for the Night of the Wolf is unneeded, better to let it hang on the legion kneeling before Angron.

 

Otherwise, I don’t have much to complain about. Mago is a great original character and an ideal mouthpiece for the War Hounds. Besides the opening, fight scenes are restricted purely to when they’re needed. It’s clear from the start that tragedy is looming on the horizon, but it never becomes any less compelling for that. The downward spiral of the legion is unsettling, and it’s made more so by their primarch.

 

Angron, wow. There’s a different flavour here than ADB and Farrer’s character. His actions slot cleanly into their stories, and the flashbacks to Nuceria even paint him in a more sympathetic light before things went to :cuss. But St Martin’s Angron in the present is one of the most uniquely hateful characters I’ve ever read about. His motivation for his legion’s accepting the nails is monstrous, and he actively pushes against any opportunity for improvement. It’s a direction I’m sure many will dislike, but putting the responsibility for his deterioration squarely back into Angron’s hands makes him a uniquely compelling monster.

 

This book digs deep into the abyss that is a traitor legion, even during the crusade era. Highly Recommended if the points above don’t rub you the wrong way.

 

8.5/10

To Taste

[Scribe]

Spoilers on that motivation for Angron?

[Roomsky]

Spoilers on that motivation for Angron?

 

"He took Tethy's head in his hands and dashed it against the ground. 'What will be left?' He smashed it down again, feeling the skull crack in his fists. 'Nothing, exactly what we deserve. The others hold themselves up as my betters, and I will take joy in watching them fall. But I will do my part, just as they demand of me. Simple, furious Angron.

 

He dropped Tethys to the dust, leaning down to whisper in his son's ear. He spoke, even though Tethys had been dead for some time. 

 

'I will go between the stars, and spill blood, and take skulls, and I will leave the Emperor exactly what He left for me. Nothing but a graveyard, an endless field of bones, stabbing out from salted earth.'"

 

This is taken without the full context, obviously, but it's Angron's mission statement. The book as a whole illustrates perfectly just how bitter he is about everything. From Betrayer, I got an Angron who mostly tried to ignore his sons, sans Khârn. Here, Angron pressured (read: decimation) them into taking the nails so he could use them to destroy any world he was ordered to make compliant. He hates not just the Emperor, but his sons and the whole Imperium as well. He's basically a traitor pretending to be a loyalist.

Edited May 15, 2020 by Roomsky

[mc warhammer]

and really...why should he be anything else?

[Scribe]

At risk of being speculative...I have zero issue with that.

 

A thread run's through all of Khorne related lore, and it is suicidal. Not just 'rawr I'm going to charge you like a berzerker' suicidal, but an actual desire for death.

 

I have no issue with that piece, its perfectly in character.

[mc warhammer]

angrons basically a change the system from within kinda guy

[Scribe]

I should really grab that book.

[Roomsky]

I should really grab that book.

 

It's definitely grimdark on a level you'd probably appreciate. St. Martin doesn't get much buzz around here but I like his writing as well. Lucius was basically all action but I liked it anyway for reasons I can't fathom.

[DarkChaplain]

Is Ian still gonna write more Lucius, while we're mentioning that? He did a bunch of shorts before/after the novel, but it's been a good while without a follow up. Were there no plans for a Lucius trilogy, or did it just get slaanesh'd for flying under the radar?

[Roomsky]

Is Ian still gonna write more Lucius, while we're mentioning that? He did a bunch of shorts before/after the novel, but it's been a good while without a follow up. Were there no plans for a Lucius trilogy, or did it just get slaanesh'd for flying under the radar?

 

His Rapid Fire Interview says he planned for a trilogy, which is as much detail as I can find. Will depend on how it sold, but these days BL puts out so much it's hard to tell what people are actually buying. No one talks about Brooks (or if they do, unfortunately often negatively) but he's getting novels, so hopefully St. Martin is the same.

[cheywood]

 

 

Is Ian still gonna write more Lucius, while we're mentioning that? He did a bunch of shorts before/after the novel, but it's been a good while without a follow up. Were there no plans for a Lucius trilogy, or did it just get slaanesh'd for flying under the radar?

His Rapid Fire Interview says he planned for a trilogy, which is as much detail as I can find. Will depend on how it sold, but these days BL puts out so much it's hard to tell what people are actually buying. No one talks about Brooks (or if they do, unfortunately often negatively) but he's getting novels, so hopefully St. Martin is the same.

According to his LinkedIn he’s been working at Riot Games for the past year (they sure do love BL writers) so it might just be a case of him being busy.