Rate what you Read, or the fight against Necromancy

[Kelborn]

Great review Kelborn! I really wanted to enjoy this novel, but it just felt like a meandering mess that really needed extra work and refinement, it's certainly no Helsreach... BUT, given the 4 week turnaround that Reynolds achieved, I'd happily classify this as a literary masterpiece!

 

Out of curiosity what was your take on the

 

WB Dreadnought turned preacher of the God Emperors divinity? His identity wasn't confirmed other than a few titbits such as him being witness to the Word Bearers fall during the Heresy and that he fought to save his Legions soul. I immediately thought that he could only be Nick Kymes, Barthusa Narek... no idea if that was made official or not, BUT given his disappearance from the Heresy following Oldearth, I would love this to be a sign of things to come for that character!

 

I agree, it's no Helsreach but it's easily among the better ones. Battle of the Fang, Wrath of Iron and such come to mind as comparisons.

 

About your question. I'm sadly not up to date to all characters. Need to have a look at him.

 

But

The moment he appeared, hold his monologue and literally bathed everyone in the Emperor's might?

Holy crap, that was awesome. This is exactly what I meant. If even Astartes can channel His might, imagine the possibilities. This goes far beyond the visions of the Emperor's Champion or such. Until then, I though only mortals could be conduits. It perfectly plays into the Legion of the Damned and the embodiment of the astronomican, Imperius. Another piece of the puzzle.

There are two things I really want to see in the future for 40K:

- A Soul Wars equivalent about gathering/ protecting souls. The dark gods feed upon them, I'm surprised that tgis wasn't featured thus far.

- A big release of the LotD with Ferrus as their leader, the Emperor's Wrath incarnate.

 

Again, it's incredible what Josh has done with a "forced" commission within just a handful of weeks. <3

[JH79]

 

*Snip snip*

 

 

Yes!! Re your spoiler tag, that really was quite the moment! I really do think I'm bang on the money re just WHO he is... it is a lesser known character from the Heresy, one from quite the divisive author amongst the community so maybe those with enough knowledge to put most Tech Priests to shame just haven't caught onto it yet  There were plenty of little nuggets like this within though, which makes it all the more frustrating knowing that GW / BL put Josh under such pressure literally just to fill a release slot... $$$$. It's their loss at the end of the day, and to a lesser extent ours too, though I'll always be thankful for the Bile trilogy!

 

In all honesty this novel reminds me of the Siege more than anything else, it's something I really want to love, but fundamentally can't as it's bogged down by the sheer number of character, chapters, plotlines etc that it's trying to squeeze into a tight space. Your review really did hit the nail on the head re the Word Bearers characters who were such a welcome surprise, especially Amatnim. I'd argue that this could have been better marketed as a Word Bearers novel as their characters were way more memorable after the fact, and I actually quite warmed to Amatnim before the end.

 

I will have to revisit it again at some point in the coming months, maybe knowing what I'm getting into will help me enjoy it more second time round 

[Kelborn]

True words, brothers.

Amatnim was -for me- the most compelling charakter of the entire book.

He was a fresh and unique take on a word bearer, one I can get behind with. Would've loved to see more of him in a side story or such. His comradery with Apis, his ability to outmaneuver his rivals and enemies, his convictions, beliefs and visions.

That's what a leader of the traitor legions should be like instead of tropes and bland stereotypes, imho.

[Scribe]

I'm going to just say, regarding this.

 

There are two things I really want to see in the future for 40K:

- A Soul Wars equivalent about gathering/ protecting souls. The dark gods feed upon them, I'm surprised that tgis wasn't featured thus far.

 

I would be REAL upset. The whole fabric of the setting is woven through the utter fact, that ones soul goes to the Warp and is consumed, and it doesn't matter what one believed in life.

 

Risk of Psykers? The nature of the Warp.

 

Power of the Chaos Gods? They draw from everyone and anyone.

 

Warp Travel? Tainting humanity. This is why the Webway mattered.

 

Exceptions? Laughing God, and Mork/Gork, or the Shadow of the Nids.

 

It's why I am still not pleased with the Eldar update.

 

These kinds of changes fundamentally alter one of the basic understood facts of decades.

 

You die, and your damned, outside of some pretty specific edge cases.

[StrangerOrders]

Ehhh.... kinda sorta, not really, but yeah, maybe but probably not except when possibly mistaken.

 

Trying to use hard rules with warp is like trying to invent colors while blind. Good on ya if you have a rough impression but you are hilariously doomed to fail.

 

Case in point, go on and figure out Slaanesh's chronology... in a realm where time doesnt exist.

 

That being said, Ive always found the Chaos Gods to be easily the weakest facet of the setting despite the Warp being fascinating ground.

 

And I do say that while knowing they are one in the same except when they are not. 

 

Its a matter of characterization, hilarious since I enjoy some individual Daemons. The Gods themselves tend to be written like something conceived of in the mind of a child that was never taught that it is okay to lose and whose parents wonder why the kid can't make friends... while they spend their nights complaining about how their bosses dont deserve to have a higher rank than them. Entirely too many spikes in the family as a whole though.

 

Chaos is generally best off when being as vague a force as possible, I tend to favor French in this aspect. Although that is not due to my liking vagueness, I just think that attempts to make it less vague seem to inexplicably be drowned in an influx of ham.

 

Granted, I am also the guy that does not particularly enjoy lovecraft. 'Nothing is scarier than an unknowable omnipotent force' is code to me for you being either lacking in creativity or being cripplingly frightened of granularity.

Edited November 10, 2020 by StrangerOrders

[SkimaskMohawk]

Amatnim was great, but I really quite liked Calder as well.

 

As far as the anchorite being Narek? Iirc he said he surrendered during the underworld war and was taken prisoner by the ultramarines. Narek had a whole adventure that he went on.

[StrangerOrders]

Amatnim was great, but I really quite liked Calder as well.

 

As far as the anchorite being Narek? Iirc he said he surrendered during the underworld war and was taken prisoner by the ultramarines. Narek had a whole adventure that he went on.

Its also mentioned that he was a believer in Chaos before Calth iirc.

 

I think Narek was not, I could be wrong though since I havent touched Vulkan Lives in quite some time.

Edited November 10, 2020 by StrangerOrders

[Scribe]

Trying to use hard rules with warp is like trying to invent colors while blind. Good on ya if you have a rough impression but you are hilariously doomed to fail.

I'm not asking for the moon here. ;)

 

'Sir, what happens when we die?'

 

'Oh, your soul dissolves into the stuff of the Warp, you are consumed and if you have the ability to fathom it, you will know you are being destroyed by intelligent beings.'

 

That's all man. :p

[Syrakul]

Ehhh.... kinda sorta, not really, but yeah, maybe but probably not except when possibly mistaken.

 

Trying to use hard rules with warp is like trying to invent colors while blind. Good on ya if you have a rough impression but you are hilariously doomed to fail.

 

Case in point, go on and figure out Slaanesh's chronology... in a realm where time doesnt exist.

 

That being said, Ive always found the Chaos Gods to be easily the weakest facet of the setting despite the Warp being fascinating ground.

 

And I do say that while knowing they are one in the same except when they are not. 

 

Its a matter of characterization, hilarious since I enjoy some individual Daemons. The Gods themselves tend to be written like something conceived of in the mind of a child that was never taught that it is okay to lose and whose parents wonder why the kid can't make friends... while they spend their nights complaining about how their bosses dont deserve to have a higher rank than them. Entirely too many spikes in the family as a whole though.

 

Chaos is generally best off when being as vague a force as possible, I tend to favor French in this aspect. Although that is not due to my liking vagueness, I just think that attempts to make it less vague seem to inexplicably be drowned in an influx of ham.

 

Granted, I am also the guy that does not particularly enjoy lovecraft. 'Nothing is scarier than an unknowable omnipotent force' is code to me for you being either lacking in creativity or being cripplingly frightened of granularity.

Chaos Gods are likely written this way as you say, because cartoonishly evil wargame fiction demands it; But if these gods exemplify traits like wrath, lust, etc, their peak behavior should know no bounds in those areas. like plato's forms or dharmic oneness we only perceive through the actions of their daemons a cumbersome depiction of those traits.

 

On Lovecraft; Reading about fearful things or even watching movies you actually get scared from are both nothing compared to the dread one could feel in real-life scenarios (even say camping at night in pitch black and fearing a bear or something).

I would say its impossible to write that level of fear without the reader having a genuine experience to fall back on. I'd Imagine during his time readers had more direct experience and lovecraft in its vagueness aimed to evoke that. we are so awash in graphic and rich horror today that quality is lost.

[mc warhammer]

i had the same experience as you, kelborn: went in expecting nothing and came away loving the book. it's one of the few i cold actually reread. the varying word bearer philosophies were engrossing and tbh, i prefer this take to ADB's (no knock on him, of course. and they coexist nicely)

 

the anchorite being narek doesn't 100% gel, since narek wasn't for the emperor either if i recall correctly, he just wanted to kill lorgar. the anchorite is absolutely devout and rediscovered his faith on calth. in the 30k timelines, he should actually be imprisoned during the current storyline, right?

Edited November 11, 2020 by mc warhammer

[DukeLeto69]

Interesting chat about chaos/warp.

 

IMO authors should never touch the actual chaos gods. They should always remain “offscreen” as something imagined (after all their energy ergo existence is based on emotion/deeds/belief/worship - ie if you imagine something then that brings it into existence) but never seen.

 

The closest acceptable depiction of chaos to me was back in the early days by Ian Watson - because it was sheer bonkers.

Edited November 11, 2020 by DukeLeto69

[byrd9999]

Brutal Kunnin' - Mike Brooks

 

I bought this Day 1 hardback release because I enjoyed the prequel short story so much (Where Dere's Da Warp Dere's A Way). For me, he "gets" orks. The brutality, the aggression, the hierachy, the humour. It is all so well balanced.

 

There is a huge amount of respect for orks. They are tough, there are thought processes (such as they are), there is an orky logik to what they do. But they aren't clowns. They aren't just football 'ooligans. Often the humour comes from the skill of Mike Brooks' portrayal, so we aren't laughing because they are idiots, but because their orkish ways are so different from our own.

 

And the ork parts of this novel are superb. Some of the best, funniest, memorable and just-so-damn-quotable 40k fiction I have ever read. The scene where Ufthak encounters a daemon engine for the first time, and struggles to process what he is seeing, is laugh out loud hilarious.

 

The only drawback to this book is that the ork sections make up less than 50% of the wordcount. The rest of the story is split between the AdMech and Iron Warrior storylines.

 

Now, I understand why the orks haven't got a whole book to themselves. Mainly it's an editorial decision, because BL didn't feel that the ork point-of-view could carry a whole book. But also because with the ork point-of-view (wonderful though it is), is so self-centred and naturally limited to such an extent that it might be difficult to follow the main plot without some other, more "aware" characters able to provide context for why the orks are doing what they are doing.

 

And that seems to be the main purpose of the AdMech and Iron Warrior sections, to provide context for the orks to do their stuff. Having said that, it is well written, and the subterfuge/traitorous subplot is good enough. (side point: regarding Mike Brooks writing the Alpharius Primarch novel. The intrigue in this subplot is handled well. It isn't a complex web of triple- and quadruple-crosses, where everyone is in disguise and nothing can be relied upon. It focuses on a single character who suspects the AdMech have a traitor in their ranks, uncovers the traitor, and then gets paranoid about how far up the hierarchy it goes. She acts on her suspicions, but we the readers are never told whether her suspicions were correct. It is left open. For me, this would make a more satisfying approach to the Alpha Legion than another over-the-top are-they-all-Alpharius? Inception tale).

 

I hope this book does well enough for Mike Brooks to write more, Ufthak is a great character. And I hope this book convinces the BL editorial team (i think Nick Kyme handled this one) that the orks should get more time in the centre of the stage in their own novel.

 

11/10 for the ork bits

 

9/10 overall.

[Indefragable]

Perdition's Flame (audio drama) by Alec Worley

 

Think I got this as part of a Humble Bundle haul and just got around to getting to it now. 

 

I give it a 4.75/5

 

Short, sweet, self-contained and a fun listen? Check.

Solid voice acting? Check. 

Solid story structure and delivery? Check. 

Praetorians and Vostroyans and obscure-yet-plausible Inquisitorial Ordos*? Check.

Just enough twists and reveals to make you smile, but nothing too clever or "gotcha!" or trying to hard to be to ruin the fun? Check. 

The Imperial Guard being called "The Guard" by line troops in-setting rather than the Astra Militarum (though the latter is acknowledged as the official term by the brass)? :cuss yea CHECK. 

 

Definitely worth a listen. It's not perfect, but it really does not have any major flaws and above all else it's fun (in a grimdark sort of way). Perhaps my second favorite (short) audio drama since the singular Hunger by Andy Smillie.

 

*see Spoilers

 

Spoilers:

An escaped <wink wink> prisoner relates to the reader/listener a  tale of how he ended up on an abandoned rock. He is a Vostroyan Firstborn solider who went AWOL from his regiment after the things he saw during one fateful mission and ends up a prisoner on an Imperial Navy ship carrying soldiers from the Praetorian Guard regiment and an Inquisitor from the Ordo Cronos bearing strange cargo. All sorts of weird stuff happens on the ship, with systems constantly failing and strange voices being heard. Both the narrator and the commander of the Preatorians, a Captain Brandt (who I kept expecting to say "you know nothing, Jon Snow!" because the voice actress sounds exactly like Ygritte from Game of Thrones), believe the issues are caused by the Inquisitor's cargo, but before the case can be made, a plague ship shows up and hijinks ensue. 

 

Honestly, it's worth a listen to at 1hr16min and the twists are just good enough and minor enough to further flesh out the setting without feeling forced or tacked on. And seriously, not a single GW product was hocked during the entire thing, with lesser-known entities starring throughout. 

 

Worth it. 

[Roomsky]

Relentless – Richard Williams

 

This is quite the underappreciated book. I’ve seen recommendations for it here and there, in fairness usually glowing, but it’s very uncommon to hear it spoken about. That’s a tremendous shame, because the book is quite good, and one of the best that fits the “X premise (ship mutiny) in 40k” template.

 

This is a short but sweet story of revenge, bolstered by a wealth of detail about life on an Imperial starship, especially what happens below deck. The main cast is well drawn and Captain Becket’s plight is extremely compelling; while he’s not the most likable character the novel ensures his opponent is slimy enough for you to root for Becket anyway. That said, neither is a caricature and the whole cast is believably nuanced compared to the tropes they come from.

 

The writing is good and the pacing is to match. If I had to criticize, I’d say the plot gets a bit busy in the last third, and it takes away from Becket’s personal struggles (which are what make the book so compelling in the first place). That said, it does give us a better than average appearance by the Dark Eldar, so in many ways it is worth it.

Not a perfect book by any means, but rich in character and worldbuilding, and it doesn’t overstay it’s welcome.

 

A very solid 7.5/10

To Taste, but a Must Read if you’re looking for an older, more obscure BL book to check out.

[byrd9999]

Praetorian of Dorn, John French.

 

This might be the best thing I have read by John French. I've been a little wary of his writing as from what I've read before (Ahriman trilogy), his prose can be dense and not to my taste, and his narratives a little bland. But with a more defined purpose, as in PoD, he far exceeded my expectations.

 

[on a side note: if you want to play the John French Drinking Game, see how many chapters in his works start with someone waking up and not knowing who or where they are, and then coming to a gradual realisation... :) ]

 

This is one of the better HH entries, and a good look at both Imperial Fists and Alpha Legion, both underrepresented up this point (Book 39) imo. It was the first real sense of the imminent Siege from Terra's p-o-v that I have read.

 

Archamus was a well-drawn main character (for an Imperial Fist), and I liked the flashbacks to his upbringing and recruitment into the IFs.

 

The Alpha Legion shenanigans were on the right side of convoluted.

 

I would have liked to see more tie-in with the Aeldari, in relation to AL motivations, especially as Dan Abnett did such an amazing job in Legion (one of my favourites). I know the Aeldari presence was largely dropped after the first few HH books, but a reference back to it would have been nice as it was a significant minor plot line threaded throughout.

 

The Selenar plot line seemed like it should have been more important, but didn't really end up going anywhere or adding much. Valdor by Chris Wraight did a much better job of tying in Space Marine biology-lore to the IP.

 

The battle scenes in the final part of the book overstayed their welcome, but the resolution was worth it.

 

 

Overall, I enjoyed it more than I thought I would: 8/10

[SkimaskMohawk]

The selenar weren't really there to be an important part of the Marine production though. It was a building block for the upcoming siege and to produce an operative for the Fists that could unravel the shenanigans. Their culture was just an interesting tidbit, much like any mentions of the jovian void clans or saturnine ordos; something to flesh out the inhabitants of the solar system.

[byrd9999]

It wasn't so much the impact of the Selenar (in the backstory) that I felt was lacking, it was not fleshing out the Selenar enough, even if their role in Marine biology was minor. If an author is going to introduce a whole new group of weird people who live on the dark side of the moon, with some tantalising backstory, and one of them is going to become a main character, I would have liked a few more words dedicated to them, rather than just a maguffin.

[SkimaskMohawk]

More than Su-Kassen and the jovians got.

 

The selenar really are just a maguffin for why the traitor legions were able to have the sustained resources for the siege. We got enough of an explanation to know their general shtick and to understand they're pragmatic enough to flip.

[Noserenda]

Picked up "The Serpents dance" advent short (No thread for them?) as im duty bound to throw money at anything even peripherally linked to the Sisters of silence asap  

Actually really nice short! Wish it could have been a full novel tbh but ill take what i can get  

Good things

Nice glimpse at Jovian upper classes

Kendel and her team are pretty much Proto inquisition at this point which is cool, across her stories you can see what will become the Inquisition forming and its pretty cool. Interesting to see how it links up with Sindermans also proto inquisition elements.

Kendel remains badass, good kind of view into a Sisters head even if thetre arent any tidbits about the order exactly.

My Fave antagonists being their classic selves  

But yeah, Short, excellent and left me wanting more. Good work!  Edited December 4, 2020 by Noserenda

[Malkydel]

Picked up "The Serpents dance" advent short (No thread for them?) as im duty bound to throw money at anything even peripherally linked to the Sisters of silence asap  

 

Actually really nice short! Wish it could have been a full novel tbh but ill take what i can get  

 

Good things

 

Nice glimpse at Jovian upper classes

 

Kendel and her team are pretty much Proto inquisition at this point which is cool, across her stories you can see what will become the Inquisition forming and its pretty cool. Interesting to see how it links up with Sindermans also proto inquisition elements.

 

Kendel remains badass, good kind of view into a Sisters head even if thetre arent any tidbits about the order exactly.

 

My Fave antagonists being their classic selves  

 

 

But yeah, Short, excellent and left me wanting more. Good work! 

Bonus points for there being dancing!

[Roomsky]

Nexus and Other Stories – Various

 

Not a bad collection; I enjoyed it more than Crusade at least. The title novella is nothing special; it’s sort of a shorter, better version of Indomitus, and based on the novella Crusade I imagine the prerequisites for these are rather strict. There’s a decent human element which keeps the rather cliched marine sections tolerable, and the prose is good.

 

The collection of shorts is mostly pretty good. An abundance of marine shorts balanced with a short each about Orks, Eldar, The Inquisition, AdMech, Custodes, Tau, Imperial Navy, and Battle Sisters. Shout out to Lightning Run, which pulled me in after what I thought would be a boring premise. I’d probably be even more impressed if it just didn’t include the novella, but I know it’s here for new readers. The marine stories themselves are well chosen as well in my opinion, generally showing how certain chapters have a habit of killing each other as well as the enemy.

 

A decent collection for newbies. There were a few duds throughout and the title story didn’t impress, but it does it’s job.

6/10

[DarkChaplain]

I wonder how new readers are gonna feel when they end up loving Nexus and then find out the author was booted half a year prior to release and asked folks not to buy his books. That spells awkward for a new reader anthology's main piece.

 

It's a pretty good pickup for the asking price, though. I've read plenty of those stories over the years, and while I'd question putting Phil Kelly in there, most of the stories are decent introductions to trilogies, one-off novels or factions.

 

Definitely think it's better than Crusade + Other Stories. The stories in that one were a weird bunch, one of which was part one in a 8 part serialized novel by 4 different authors, which was really all over the place.

 

Between this and The Hammer and the Eagle, it's a pretty good second half of the year for newcomers that want to explore broadly. Not as good as the Hammer & Bolter omnibus days, or the Space Marines omnibus (Heroes, Legends and Victories of the Space Marines) if you want to explore Astartes specifically, but they're easy pickups to recommend.

[byrd9999]

The Master of Mankind, by Aaron Dembski-Bowden.

 

I've been looking forward to this one for ages and it didn't disappoint. There were so many great aspects to the book:

 

- The Emperor is seen differently by different people. (Especially the Mechanicum character who was excited that the Emperor spoke in a flat monotone!)

 

- The Sisters of Silence were awesome. Their burden to load up the black ships to bring in the first psyker-tithe to feed the Emperor was suitably creepy once I realised what was happening. The way the psykers struggled when they died in their clear coffins as they heard the psychic choir singing was a great scene.

 

- Really seeing for the first time how Magnus' hubris damaged the Emperor's Great Work, something that didn't come across at all in Thousand Sons or The Outcast Dead. Maybe Magnus did do something wrong after all...

 

- The personification of the daemons as spirits born of events like the first murder.

 

- The entrapment/sacrifice of Drach'nyen in Emdymion Ra.

 

- Turning Arkhan Land from just a punchline (albeit a funny one) into one of my favourite characters of the Heresy.

 

 

It's clear ADB must spend a lot of time really thinking not just about the events in the stories he writes, but also how they fit into the universe, and how they can expand on the lore in interesting ways, shining new light on them.

 

9/10.

[Scribe]

Agreed. I continue to believe its the most important book in the framework of the 40K setting. Its not when the emperor is enthroned that really makes the difference in 40K, its that they have lost, and this book is the moment where that loss happens.

[DukeLeto69]

Agreed. I continue to believe its the most important book in the framework of the 40K setting. Its not when the emperor is enthroned that really makes the difference in 40K, its that they have lost, and this book is the moment where that loss happens.

Agree too. MoM was quite divisive when it came out but I loved it.

 

It also ties into (what I think is) my head cannon - that TGE, Custodes, SoS etc are still fighting the war in the warp to protect Terra even in current timeline. It never ended and TGE is very much “alive” in the realm of the sea of souls.