Rate what you Read, or the fight against Necromancy

[Cactus]

I'm re-reading the Siege of Terra while waiting for Warhawk and had in mind a long-ish post about which parts I think stand up well, or support the overall story; how Zenobi's arc, particularly the dialogue, has a very different tone when you know the conclusion, yadda yadda.

 

However I have to give an immediate shout-out to pages 274 to 283 of Saturnine.

It's the part where the Pons Solar is falling and Hari and Piers rally around the Emperor's banner.

Truth and lies, horror and hope. Magnificent writing.

 

[byrd9999]

In preparation for The Fury of Magnus, I'm reading all the Thousand Sons stories in order.

 

Thousand Sons, by Graham McNeill

 

Possibly my favourite work by Graham McNeill. Did he invent the enumerations and the disciplines (Pavoni, Raptora, etc...)? If so, this is a tremendous feat of imagination. It's a big book, as per McNeill's SOP, but, re-reading this, it doesn't feel like any scenes could have been cut. Sure, he could get to the point quicker, but this is as streamlined as McNeill gets.

 

There are only 2 drawbacks for me: firstly, the Thousand Sons are supposed to be one of the cleverest legions, but most of the time they come off as needy and dimwitted. I'm thinking especially the opening scene where Magnus has entered Aghoru, and told his sons to remain behind in the pavilion and wait for him, but they get antsy and decide to go looking for him. In order to make Magnus appear like the smartest primarch, McNeill has the T-Sons make stupid decisions and then have Magnus correct them.

 

Secondly, the sheer amount of times the T-Sons "snap" and "hiss" when they speak is just absurd.  It seems like it happens on nearly every single page, and gets worse towards the end of the book. My biggest problem with McNeill's writing, across all I have read by him, is how he portrays Space Marines as petulant pass-agg teenagers who snap at each other, in place of constructive dialogue or character development. It's sometimes tough to tell whether these are genhanced super humans or a bowl of rice krispies.

 

Still, 9/10.

 

 

Prospero Burns, by Dan Abnett.

 

I had only planned to read the latter part of the book that specifically pertains to the Thousand Sons, but I got sucked in and devoured the whole thing in about 4 days (quick for me). This is IP tie-in writing at its very finest. A gripping story, great plot hooks that are slowly revealed, great characterisation. Especially noteworthy is the way that Abnett portrays Leman Russ. In contrast to McNeill's Magnus being smart by virtue of his sons appearing dumb, Abnett shows how tough Leman Russ is by having the Wolves be ferocious, but Russ more fierce still. This is the way to do it.

 

10/10.

 

 

Thief of Revelations, by Graham McNeill.

 

Considering this is the direct follow-on from the battle on Prospero, it is kinda underwhelming. No one really talks about the obvious: that Magnus and the legion were loyal to the Emperor at the start of the battle, but where do they stand now that it appears they had been sentenced to be executed? No discussion of what just happened or why, it's just straight onto some dust metaphors, some rubric-foreshadowing and everyone "snapping" at each other again. More could/should have been done with this.

 

6/10.

 

 

Rebirth by Chris Wraight

 

One of my favourite HH shorts. Chris Wraight is always a joy to read, and he's on top form here. It's great to expand on the Thousand Sons who weren't on Prospero when it burned. A bit of action, some great lore, and fleshing out the fallout of one of the Heresy's biggest turning points. I would love to have the Thousand Sons arc continued by Chris Wraight. Between this and his scenes with Magnus in Scars, Wraight's version of the legion is much more in tune with mine.

 

10/10.

Edited September 13, 2021 by byrd9999

[Kelborn]

Started listening to "The Reverie" by Peter Fehervari to get back into 40k again.

 

Let's see how this will turn out. I remember some high praises from our little book club aka community. ;)

[byrd9999]

Really struggling with The Crimson King, so I took some time out to read something I enjoy to gird my loins before I jump back in:

 

 

First and Only, Dan Abnett

 

Well, this was really rather good. My son loved it too. I'm planning to read the entire series to him as bedtime reading, so thanks to DukeLeto and others on the Sabbat Crusade reading order thread so I can mix in the short stories at the appropriate juncture.

 

9/10.

 

 

The Enemy of My Enemy, and Empra, both by Nate Crowley.

 

Nate Crowley's first shorts for BL, from Inferno! He's rapidly becoming one of my favourite BL authors. TEOME is a hilarious battle of wits between the Imperial Guard and Colonel Taktikus the ork. I can't wait to read his Thraka novel. Empra is a fantastic piece of imagination, full of plot twists, big reveals, and a great sense of irony that is perfect for Grimdark 40k. Crowley really "gets" 40k, and is a master of the short story form to tell compelling, complete tales.

 

10/10.

[DukeLeto69]

@byrd9999 thanks for shout out but what thread was that? Must be an old one?

 

Technically you should have started with Ghostmaker and some of those shorts (if going chronologically) ;-)

[byrd9999]

@byrd9999 thanks for shout out but what thread was that? Must be an old one?

 

Technically you should have started with Ghostmaker and some of those shorts (if going chronologically) ;-)

 

Apologies for missing out R_F_D, he made the thread, based on your previous work:

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342794-sabbat-world-crusade-chronological-reading-order/

 

I only found it after finishing First and Only. I bought The Founding and it comes with 3 shorts in it, so I started with A Ghost Return, then the first novel. I am part way through Of Their Lives in the Ruin of their Cities and I just found the above thread, so I realise there are chronology issues with Ghostmaker (which is up next), but it's all good fun

 

The thread linked above is the only one online that I could find that includes the short stories. Lexicanum, reddit, everywhere else just focuses on the novels, so thanks 

Edited September 15, 2021 by byrd9999

[DukeLeto69]

Oh man I can’t take any credit there! R_F_D did a great job far in excess of what I had previously done! Great resource. Edited September 15, 2021 by DukeLeto69

[byrd9999]

Ravenor, Dan Abnett.

 

More great stuff from Dan Abnett. A gripping read, great characterisation, and different enough from Eisenhorn to feel like it deserves its own series. The idea that the flects (and associated addiction) are Chaos-tainted is superb. I can't wait to see where this goes.

 

10/10.

 

 

Helsreach, Aaron Dembski-Bowden.

 

Catching up on more BL classics in my backlog. This is one of the best 40k Space Marines books I have read. I'd been putting this off because of its place in the SM Battles series, and bolter porn isn't really my thing. But thankfully this book was heavy on the atmosphere, the mounting tension, the characterisation and even comic relief. The battles scenes, when they did occur, were sufficiently spaced apart and differentiated to really count for something. Rather than just bolter after bolter, each combat encounter was different: Titans, air battles, Space Marines, untrained Guard recruits, a final siege. Unexpectedly brilliant.

 

10/10

[Roomsky]

Nightbringer – Graham Mcneill (Audio)

 

I tried reading this a year or two ago and dropped it pretty quickly – early Mcneill lacks the flair of much of his later writings, and the first couple of chapters don’t really do the book many favours. I’m thankful, then, that I was able to get it in audio format (and with really superb narration, to boot,) because it’s a lot of fun.

 

In many ways, this is the proto “Space Marine Book” template. A world under attack and/or in rebellion, a small squad of marines sent to save the day, there’s a hidden enemy they must face. But where that has become trite, for 2002 this must have been somewhat revolutionary for Black Library.

 

It moves from scene to scene with admirable efficiency, and is surprisingly restrained when it comes to combat. The switches from intrigue to explosions is done surprisingly well, and the book moves even more quickly than its small page count may suggest. It’s just good fun.

 

The other things I’ll give credit to is the characters. While Mcneill has a habit of putting larger than life characters where they really don’t belong, you can never say they’re bland. No Brother Genericus to be found here, Uriel is more charming than I had expected (and also in far less of the book than I expected.) This book should really be called an Inquisitor Barzano Chronicle, because he’s essentially the protagonist. I believe he has the highest page count, despite not having an arc, and he’s quite the force of personality in the story. And egads! Two enemy factions that are xenos! It’s unfortunate we’ve entered an era where that’s so uncommon, and despite my usual complaints about xenos in BL, they are at least both memorable and dangerous, here.

 

All that said, it DID take the audio for me to get into it. Mcneill’s still developing his writing here, and it shows; the prose is mediocre and characters often spout dialogue so stock it ends up being page filler. For the time it came out, it’s close to genius. Compared to today’s offerings, it’s fine, but still worthwhile.

 

To Taste

6/10

[DarkChaplain]

I re-read it recently as well, and I was surprised by the stiffness of Ventris in particular, especially when compared to the later books. Space Marines are much closer to a detachment of US Army troopers than warrior monks. This is mostly down to the way Space Marine dialogue works in Nightbringer, especially between Ventris and non-Marine authorities, but also by way of how Ventris and co get ordered around by ordinary humans sometimes, stand to attention and so forth. These Marines are definitely not on the same level as Astartes these days, either in behavior or martial prowess.

 

But then, Nightbringer really has been fond in my memories because of Ario Barzano - Ventris, Pasanius and Learchus are more secondary than anything. It's Barzano, his flippant, almost comedic nature in many scenes, his meddling with local politics, and the foreshadowed reveal of his identity as an agent of the inquisition - and the shift in attitude away from more light-hearted to "I'm seriously considering Exterminatus here" - take the cake in Nightbringer.

 

The second point I've been remembering a bit more strongly than a re-read proved it to be nowadays was the body horror element. From the introduction of the exiled Archon on and running throughout the book, McNeill didn't really pull his punches in how gruesome the Dark Eldar and one of their minions are. Not only is there a sort of cold efficiency to how acts of violence are depicted, but there's a distinct sexual undertone to it as well - sometimes more obvious than at others - and back in the day I simply did not expect that level of "well, this is a mutilated human body strung up by his sinews alright"-horror. There was no doubt that the Dark Eldar haemonculus and Archon are properly inhuman and "evil", because we're presented what they stand for, and what their torture may do to a human and his mind, on a silver platter.

But the book doesn't dwell on it as much as expected, and moves on from individual scenes like that pretty swiftly.

 

But at the end of the day, I can see why Ventris and his series were often maligned by Space Marine fans. The Ultramarines here feel much more naive than their serving record should allow them to be. Even Marneus Calgar is a bit like that, though obviously less so than Uriel. The Astartes here don't have much of a real superhuman presence, but often come across as humans-with-better-equipment and some body modification. Some battle elements would be totally different in treatment the past ten years than back then, not to speak of the religious aspects of the Chapter that are most pronounced early on when Ventris visits Calgar and the shrine of Guilliman.

 

All in all, I think Nightbringer is rather symbolic of the naivety of its era as far as 40k was concerned. It was still in that awkward spot between "game" and "hard-boiled setting", right before Space Marines received some more fundamental retooling on the narrative level. It's a book that holds plenty of enhusiasm, even if individual elements don't square up as well anymore, especially in the way of hierarchy. It works very well as a book for entertainment, and despite freeing the Nightbringer into the galaxy - pre-sharding-lore, no less! - it seems much less concerned with being a puzzle piece within the tapestry of fictional lore and grimdark despair than with being entertaining for the reader. It feels refreshingly honest as a debut novel, for all its flaws.

[DukeLeto69]

AT THE TIME I remember really enjoying the first six Uriel Ventris books. I have never gone back and re-read them though. I do find it interesting how BL fiction and the treatment of different factions has clearly developed over the past 20years (goddam 20+ years, feel old).

 

I know it will be subjective, but I do wonder what most of us currently think of as being the definitive description/story showing SM/Astartes for what we now think they are?

 

I don’t tend to read a lot of SM centred books. However, for me the way Farrer treats the Iron Snakes in Urdesh: The Serpent and the Saint kind of captures the “otherness” of SMs very well. They aren’t just souped up humans, they are virtually a different species, including their mindset.

[Roomsky]

To be honest, I really liked the portrayal of SMs in Nightbringer. They leaned hard into the warrior-monk mindset that I enjoy so much, and I'm pleased this was clearly before the change to chapters still respecting the Imperial truth - something I've always thought was nonsense.

 

Ventris and co. are naïve to the realities of civilian and political life, but not stupid. They're also perfectly killable, but always dangerous. I don't dislike the power creep marines have been receiving in fluff over time in theory, but in practice it often comes across as their being superheroes and taking the piss out of the threats they face. Another thing I think the novel does right is portraying astartes as an Imperial scalpel, rather than a hammer. Numbers have never made sense in 40k, but 1000 marines being an all-powerful ground army doesn't really track. But a few marines being used to crack the enemy's toughest positions? Perfectly fine.

 

-

 

The definitive marines for me are ADB's, purely because I think he best understands astartes psychology. His traitor protagonists are relatable, because it's their humanity that allowed Chaos to dig it's claws in. His loyalists are often cold and unsympathetic because they aren't driven by human wants. No fear, ambition, envy, pride, or empathy for them; duty and honour is what keeps them loyal and effective. And duty and honour can often be very unkind. 

[StrangerOrders]

To be honest, I really liked the portrayal of SMs in Nightbringer. They leaned hard into the warrior-monk mindset that I enjoy so much, and I'm pleased this was clearly before the change to chapters still respecting the Imperial truth - something I've always thought was nonsense.

 

Ventris and co. are naïve to the realities of civilian and political life, but not stupid. They're also perfectly killable, but always dangerous. I don't dislike the power creep marines have been receiving in fluff over time in theory, but in practice it often comes across as their being superheroes and taking the piss out of the threats they face. Another thing I think the novel does right is portraying astartes as an Imperial scalpel, rather than a hammer. Numbers have never made sense in 40k, but 1000 marines being an all-powerful ground army doesn't really track. But a few marines being used to crack the enemy's toughest positions? Perfectly fine.

 

-

 

The definitive marines for me are ADB's, purely because I think he best understands astartes psychology. His traitor protagonists are relatable, because it's their humanity that allowed Chaos to dig it's claws in. His loyalists are often cold and unsympathetic because they aren't driven by human wants. No fear, ambition, envy, pride, or empathy for them; duty and honour is what keeps them loyal and effective. And duty and honour can often be very unkind. 

Gonna go on ahead and step on the proverbial landmine here but I do often think their is a sort of pressure to not critique ADB without getting lambasted.

 

I find that ADB is perhaps the single 40k author I have gradually soured on the most over the years, along with McNeill and for very similar reasons. Because the Spears are very much Loyalists and also fit your exact definition of his chaotic characters.

 

Which is really unfortunately accurate to his style in general. There is a really painful route nature to the opposition of his PoV cast in most of his books. Which we can describe as dutiful and honorable for sure, but robotic and rigid and well... completely unengaging are also very good words for it. I think this even goes for the chaotic factions that are opposing in his rare few loyalist works, The End of Empires and the Daemonic Hordes in MoM are quite literally just instinctual animals acting in line with the parameters set out and the former Scorpions are perhaps the dullest CSMs he ever penned.

 

Its my same problem with McNeill, its really hard to get invested in your 'heroes' flailing against a virtually faceless strawman.

 

And his marines in particular have the problem of the 'extremely comfortable gripping about being a child soldier' thing, which if nothing else proves that Astartes indoctrination is so weak that modern military programs can apparently do a better job of reliably instilling a mindset in a few months.

 

Idk, its really hard to compare them favorably to Abnett, Wraight or Reynolds Astartes for me, loyalist or otherwise. Because in each of those cases you do see that Indoctrination is both hyper effective at creating killing machines in sharply distinctive ways and you are reminded that, no, most of these people came from objectively atrocious circumstances even before the Ascension got them.

 

Khârn in particular always struck me as bizarre, his displeasure with his situation always struck me as bizarre coming from someone who actually grew up in a less-than-fun part of Terra during the Unity. It sort of feels like someone from that background would see anything short of a tidal wave of lemmings with chainsaws strapped to their backs as an upgrade.

 

Most people praise Talos's navel-gazing about how unfair it was that he didn't get to bleed out in some torture pit (which, lets be real, is the most reliable end to growing up on Nostromo) but to me it is alot more terrifying that we do not think much about how cheerily psychotic most of our beloved White Scars are. Am I the only one that gets nervous at how sad and lamentable the story acts about the fact that they almost lost the ability to laugh while committing mass murder?

 

Not disqualifying opposing views or anything but I would like to present that there are at least different vectors for excellence in marine writing. (Except for Sallies, haven't seen a depiction of them that has been actually good yet).

[Roomsky]

 

>snip< 

 

I should hope people aren't blowing you up for ADB critique StrangerOrders, seeing as you're one of the exceedingly small amount of people I've seen online who critique-s ADB for things he's actually guilty of. 

 

YMMV on Abnett and Reynolds, but as usual you pick out what makes Wraight such an excellent author - he's very good at not diluting what his characters are, just so the lowest common denominator can figure out what's going on in his stories. Watchers of the Throne probably has my preferred example of this, though it's with our favourite Imperial bureaucrat rather than any space marine.

 

And yes, the Spears are an exception, but the book also has Amadeus, who is very much "I-cannot-see-past-my-own-colossal-throbbing-duty." But if we're digging to the heart of my preference, I tend to forgive ADB's marines having a more contemporary mindset because it usually serves to take the piss out of the Imperium. Diocletian is an unlikable, morally repugnant character who, by being an exemplar of his kind, helps demonstrate how upside-down the Imperium's values are. I don't subscribe to the Imperium being a necessary evil at all, neither in 30k nor 40k, and considering how often I see the faction being portrayed as straightforwardly heroic in the face of overwhelming adversity, I relish anything that takes it apart.

 

So yeah, most of them happen to align with how I see astartes, and their masters. To each their own, of course. I can hardly deny that Wraight may be at the top of the pile from a pure quality standpoint, at the moment.

[StrangerOrders]

 

 

>snip< 

 

I should hope people aren't blowing you up for ADB critique StrangerOrders, seeing as you're one of the exceedingly small amount of people I've seen online who critique-s ADB for things he's actually guilty of. 

 

YMMV on Abnett and Reynolds, but as usual you pick out what makes Wraight such an excellent author - he's very good at not diluting what his characters are, just so the lowest common denominator can figure out what's going on in his stories. Watchers of the Throne probably has my preferred example of this, though it's with our favourite Imperial bureaucrat rather than any space marine.

 

And yes, the Spears are an exception, but the book also has Amadeus, who is very much "I-cannot-see-past-my-own-colossal-throbbing-duty." But if we're digging to the heart of my preference, I tend to forgive ADB's marines having a more contemporary mindset because it usually serves to take the piss out of the Imperium. Diocletian is an unlikable, morally repugnant character who, by being an exemplar of his kind, helps demonstrate how upside-down the Imperium's values are. I don't subscribe to the Imperium being a necessary evil at all, neither in 30k nor 40k, and considering how often I see the faction being portrayed as straightforwardly heroic in the face of overwhelming adversity, I relish anything that takes it apart.

 

So yeah, most of them happen to align with how I see astartes, and their masters. To each their own, of course. I can hardly deny that Wraight may be at the top of the pile from a pure quality standpoint, at the moment.

 

Eh, it happens alot I find but I do get it to an extent. He has been flamed alot for things he both didn't say (write?) and his books attract alot of lowest common denominator types that bleed the subtext out. A damned shame given that the man is actually marvelous about weaving subtext into his works and is actually fond of the theme of bias in all parties (including the reader). Its natural that his more diehard fans get defensive, glad you are reasonable as always and arent shouting for my head lol.

 

And your point is both very fair and valid.

 

Of course what we get out of and want from a product are key to our ability to enjoy different works.

 

For my mileage... idk, I do not really tend to get into good or evil. I tend to think of most 40k factions as just... idk, 'being' I guess? I tend to think good fiction should be like good history. So I am much more easily turned off by characters behaving outside of what their context without both a very distinctive reason for their atypical behavior and considerable pushback from said context. 

 

That's why I get very easily irked by Marines lamenting their station when their alternative was most likely the privilage of being some hive scum's next meal. Although I do grant you that people tend to have an 'everything goes great' bias in their minds about alternatives in their lives.

 

I suppose it also bugs the hell out me because it reflects both the author and the readers... idk if limited imagination is the right way to say it.

 

Because, as far as I see it, marines are beyond privilaged beyond the actual hell of the Ascension. To just narrow down on one thing, one thing which marines notably dont lose the ability to appreciate, is food.

 

If you read older writing, especially fiction, you notice and obsession with describing the sort of food and the frequency of eating to describe every character. Because eating was a daily goal that you couldnt meet by either making do with less quality in a pinch, it was something you fought for. Eating well? Well then I hope you are wealthy.

 

And marines do have a selection bias according to different bloodlines, an Ultramarine or Pre-Chaos Emperor's Children would likely not have had hunger be a thing unless it entered fasion. But for a feral worlder or ganger? You are literally fighting for scraps (and like as not, fighting to eat the guy you are fighting).

 

Not only do you now have infinite access to food but its also your right to more or less just dictate what you want to eat. And we know that Astartes actually derive alot more from the activity of eating than a normal human.

 

But that's just the thing, most marines, especially loyalists and Crusade-era legions, will never have to worry about an empty stomach again. Can you begin to imagine that change in living standard and then hearing the guy next to you, who is from the same background gripe about how he was going to be the king of pir-erm, gangers before the stupid recruiters came along?

 

You'd be forgiven for muttering something about 'Astartes First World Problems' under your breath as the drop pod launched.

 

That's just an example but it honestly does bother me to have the uniformity of worldviews we often do among the Astartes characters. Its why I like little things like having Reynolds' ECs complain about peasants both pre and post Chaos or Abnett's Wolves constant mental comparisons between void passage and fenrisian sailing. 

[Kelborn]

Just finished the Reverie... I'm absolutely mindblown.

I did not expect half of what happened and there are still so many questions left open.

 

Gonna do a review, later on or tomorrow.

 

In a nutshell: the Dark Coil got its grip on me and I'm happy about it. :D

[byrd9999]

Yeah, definitely, it's one of Peter Fehervari's best. Check out the dedicated PF thread for more chat!

[byrd9999]

The Crimson King, Graham McNeill.

 

 

Gosh, this wasn't very good. I struggled mightily with this one, stopping halfway through to read some books that I actually enjoyed. I have struggled with a lot of McNeill's work, but this was the hardest one to find anything to like in it, and probably the worst BL book I have read since Battle for the Abyss.

 

So why is this worse than his other books?

 

The prose.

This seems to be the worst prose quality that he has written. Awful similes, too many uses of the word "snapped" when characters are speaking. He has found a new favourite word "artes", that gets overused. The prose itself has a weird stilted Edwardian feel to it. There is a total lack of drive to it, almost as if the author weren't entirely sure what was supposed to happen, so he filled up the pages with words until it reached the required 550 pages for a McNeill Tome. Everything takes way longer to do or say than it should. Compared to a thrusting, action-filled prose-style like Dan Abnett uses in Ravenor or Robert Rath used in Bleedout (both of which I recently finished), The Crimson King is sedate, passive and frustrating. Additionally, every character, unless they have a distinct verbal stereotype they can fit into (like the Space Wolves, ja?) speaks with the same archaic tone of dialogue. It doesn't matter if it's a dying Magnus, a Space Marine, a daemon trapped in a box, or other random characters, there is no difference in character between anyone. They are all interchangeable.

 

The plot.

It should have been sub-titled The Quest for Sufficient Maguffins. I'm not a huge fan of the Magnus-Shard plotline (although Chris Wraight does something special with it), but it gives the Thousand Sons and The Space Wolves an excuse to go to some places and do some things and fill up 550 pages. It gives Magnus a reason to go to Terra, but jeez, this is such a missed opportunity.

 

A missed opportunity.

The Chris Wraight short story, Rebirth, about World Eaters ransacking Prospero after the Battle, was superb. It dealt with some of the Thousand Sons who weren't at Prospero (another thing not covered in the Crimson King). There is a line in the story, tha Khârn delivers to Kalliston, about how the Space Wolves attacked the Thousand Sons because they thought they had turned traitor, but the World Eaters attacked the Thousand Sons because they knew they hadn't. When I read this line, it was like a punch in the gut. What a twist of the knife in the whole Tragedy of the Thousand Sons. This should have been the basis for the follow-up to the first Thousand Sons book. It's a shame to fault a book for what it isn't, but what a missed opportunity that Chris Wraight had seeded beautifully.

 

Magnus turning Traitor.

The Burning of Prospero is such a pivotal moment in the Heresy, and TCK should deal with the fall-out from this event. These characters should be questioning their loyalty, and wondering what would drive the Emperor to sanction Leman Russ to destroy the Thousand Sons. Clue: the Emperor didn't, and so we should see what The Emperor and Malcador thought of this developmen, interrogating what happened in Russ' decision to go for the kill. Perhaps some sort of dialogue between The Emperor, Malcador and Magnus. The fallout from this should be HUGE. But instead, we get 2 reasons for Magnus to join the Siege on Horus' side: [1] Magnus can't see how the Siege will play out, and whatever can't be predicted must be embraced (which is just a ridiculous reasoning), and [2] Magnus wants his shard back. Neither of which were very convincing for explaining why Magnus was willing to forego any kind of reconciliation without even trying. It was as if McNeill just assumed that the Thousand Sons were now turned against the Emperor, without doing any of the intellectual legwork to explore why.

 

Re-using old elements.

So many parts in The Crimson King were just recycled from previous McNeill works. Adding to the feel that the author didn't really know what to write about, we get a sampling of McNeill's Greatest Hits, as if that would satisfy readers. Lucius from the Emperor's Children is just hanging out, not adding anything. We get mentions of Sharrowkin. We revisit the Burning of Prospero, the mountain Aghoru, and Nikaea, although these are just Maguffin locations, and no intellectual interrogation of these events takes place.

 

The Thousand Sons are just dumb.

McNeill did this in Thousand Sons too, having the T-Sons act like the dumbest Space Marines in the galaxy, while describing the legion as one of the smartest. Again in TCK we see the T-Sons being so stupid it is beyond belief. Near the start of the book, Ahriman is going to meet Aforgomon, the daemon trapped in a box. Ahriman hears a load of voices coming from a circle of scribes. These voices talk about deep despair, a lost son and a lost father, an Exile, banishment, many roads leading from this point. It is clear to us as readers that this refers to the Thousand Sons, and Ahriman in particular. However, Ahriman hears their words as "nonsense" and "paid them little heed". You can make a point that the Thousand Sons couldn't see Tzeentch's manipulation, even when it was right in their face, and how their pride and arrogance blinded them to the truth, but that's not what this book conveys. In this book, they're just dumb.

 

 

I ended up writing a lot more than I thought I would, but I think my frustration spilled out!

 

What did I like about the book:

There are a couple of pages where Hathor Maat defuses the flesh-change happening inside him by sacrificing some humans. This was a good way of showing how desperate the T-Sons were and how they could have been tempted to Chaos, even with full-knowledge of what they were doing.

 

There was also a scene where Ahriman gets to see a glimpse of what it's like inside the mind of Magnus, how overwhelming it is, and how restrained Magnus actually was when it came to using his powers. More could have been made of this story angle.

 

 

Overall, I think I'll stick with my head-cannon of what happened after the Burning of Prospero.

 

1/10.

[Fire Golem]

I never got more than a few chapters into the Crimson King from what I remember. 

[DarkChaplain]

....I still have no idea what the deal with Lucius is. He got completely squandered in the stories following on from Angel Exterminatus. I've been waiting all Siege for him to get the hell to Terra and have a showdown with Garviel, considering how much he hated that fist in the face, but... he's just gone for years with no sign of life or acknowledgement. And for what? To tag along with Ahriman for a bit before getting lost?

[Scribe]

....I still have no idea what the deal with Lucius is. He got completely squandered in the stories following on from Angel Exterminatus. I've been waiting all Siege for him to get the hell to Terra and have a showdown with Garviel, considering how much he hated that fist in the face, but... he's just gone for years with no sign of life or acknowledgement. And for what? To tag along with Ahriman for a bit before getting lost?

More important to add Ol, Erda, and the perpetual side show. ;)

[cheywood]

What is this book, The Crimson King? The story of Magnus and the Thousand Sons goes directly from A Thousand Sons to The Fury of Magnus. Just two books, an excellent novel and a lovely little novella

[Roomsky]

....I still have no idea what the deal with Lucius is. He got completely squandered in the stories following on from Angel Exterminatus. I've been waiting all Siege for him to get the hell to Terra and have a showdown with Garviel, considering how much he hated that fist in the face, but... he's just gone for years with no sign of life or acknowledgement. And for what? To tag along with Ahriman for a bit before getting lost?

 

I assume Mcneill's 3rd Siege novella will be Emperor's Children focused, with Lucius, Fabius et al. (and Nagasena, no doubt.) 

 

I always thought that if Galaxy in Flames were written by someone with more talent, Lucius would have killed Loken in the climax instead of having a pointless duel with Saul. At this point, I'd be surprised if the two even met during the Siege. 

[StrangerOrders]

 

....I still have no idea what the deal with Lucius is. He got completely squandered in the stories following on from Angel Exterminatus. I've been waiting all Siege for him to get the hell to Terra and have a showdown with Garviel, considering how much he hated that fist in the face, but... he's just gone for years with no sign of life or acknowledgement. And for what? To tag along with Ahriman for a bit before getting lost?

 

I assume Mcneill's 3rd Siege novella will be Emperor's Children focused, with Lucius, Fabius et al. (and Nagasena, no doubt.) 

 

I always thought that if Galaxy in Flames were written by someone with more talent, Lucius would have killed Loken in the climax instead of having a pointless duel with Saul. At this point, I'd be surprised if the two even met during the Siege. 

 

The thought of McNeill, the one who reduced the EC to a bad joke which has refused to die despite all the good work put in by other authors over decades being allowed to right the moment where Fabius realizes the futility of everything and leaves to become the Fabius we all know and love from his trilogy is perhaps the most sickening and perverse thought I have ever read.

 

Worse, the thought of him putting his hands on Fulgrim again to ram home what an utter joke he is thanks to most BL writers.

 

Ngl, I am actually nauseas at the fact you are probably right.

 

To say nothing of freaking Nagasena. 

 

Or, oh gods, him somehow making an even bigger mockery of the wolves than he had already done.

 

There are so many things he could do and they are uniformly more horrific than anything Fabius has done in his ten millennia of slaughter.

 

He can have Lucius though, talk about the single least interesting character possible for the EC concept. 

[DarkChaplain]

Man, I so wish we still had Josh and the BL editing staff hadn't been so utterly moronic as to keep him almost entirely away from the Heresy. Just imagine a Fabius & Fulgrim novel / novella set during the Siege, featuring Lucius, Eidolon, and whoever is still left from The Palatine Phoenix, featuring a subplot with Endryd Haar instead of having him just die as a sidenote during Saturnine because the only author who got to write him was Josh. Heck, he could've explained away the errant Eidolon got from Mortarion, and why he ended up screaming his lungs out in an audio drama instead of sending Typhon home.

 

Just imagine the wonders of late stage Slaaneshi-EC as contrasted against The Palatine Phoenix, as a mid-point for Fabius between trying to work out his continuing bodily degradation, seeing what Slaanesh does to the Legion (probably not being too thrilled at the prospect of having claws he wouldn't even be able to operate with), and how silly the whole worship of new gods is to him, later and flipping off his Legion and refusing to take a command role in the future, all coached in actual Slaanesh horror for a change, but also the appropriate dark humor because these perverts are enjoying it, so what's there to gripe about instead of being jolly?

 

Josh would've been perfect to write the pivotal Siege story for the Emperor's Children. He's got the cast available, two (and a bit) distinct eras to center his cast in-between in regards to character development, and there's probably nobody writing for BL who nails EC better than him. Heck, I'd even say I enjoyed Kyme's short stories about EC more than the post-Fulgrim McNeill stuff...

 

Which is to say: I actually really liked Chirurgeon, and believe that Josh's Fabius trilogy and The Palatine Phoenix are pretty much the peak of EC fiction. They're difficult to write well, that's for sure, but I firmly believe that Josh's authorial voice fits the bill. His cynicism and black humor work, especially when there's a sort of back and forth between Fabius' more logical views and the foppish excesses of the main body of the Legion.