Rate what you Read, or the fight against Necromancy

[Jareddm]

Man, I so wish we still had Josh and the BL editing staff hadn't been so utterly moronic as to keep him almost entirely away from the Heresy. Just imagine a Fabius & Fulgrim novel / novella set during the Siege, featuring Lucius, Eidolon, and whoever is still left from The Palatine Phoenix, featuring a subplot with Endryd Haar instead of having him just die as a sidenote during Saturnine because the only author who got to write him was Josh. Heck, he could've explained away the errant Eidolon got from Mortarion, and why he ended up screaming his lungs out in an audio drama instead of sending Typhon home.

 

Just imagine the wonders of late stage Slaaneshi-EC as contrasted against The Palatine Phoenix, as a mid-point for Fabius between trying to work out his continuing bodily degradation, seeing what Slaanesh does to the Legion (probably not being too thrilled at the prospect of having claws he wouldn't even be able to operate with), and how silly the whole worship of new gods is to him, later and flipping off his Legion and refusing to take a command role in the future, all coached in actual Slaanesh horror for a change, but also the appropriate dark humor because these perverts are enjoying it, so what's there to gripe about instead of being jolly?

 

Josh would've been perfect to write the pivotal Siege story for the Emperor's Children. He's got the cast available, two (and a bit) distinct eras to center his cast in-between in regards to character development, and there's probably nobody writing for BL who nails EC better than him. Heck, I'd even say I enjoyed Kyme's short stories about EC more than the post-Fulgrim McNeill stuff...

Now I'm sad...

[nagashnee]

Just be thankful they kept Kyme away from the siege...the horror would be truly real then. 

[Sothalor]

Just be thankful they kept Kyme away from the siege...the horror would be truly real then.

You know he's actually the editor-in-chief for the whole thing right? His influence runs through and across it all.

[Scribe]

 

Just be thankful they kept Kyme away from the siege...the horror would be truly real then.

You know he's actually the editor-in-chief for the whole thing right? His influence runs through and across it all.

Which book does Vulcan take over then?

 

In all seriousness, the Siege now goes.

 

Saturnine, Mortis, Warhawk.

 

Just as I ignore most of the Heresy, I'm not convinced I need the first books of the Siege, at all.

[Roomsky]

 

 

Just be thankful they kept Kyme away from the siege...the horror would be truly real then.

You know he's actually the editor-in-chief for the whole thing right? His influence runs through and across it all.

Which book does Vulcan take over then?

 

In all seriousness, the Siege now goes.

 

Saturnine, Mortis, Warhawk.

 

Just as I ignore most of the Heresy, I'm not convinced I need the first books of the Siege, at all.

Saturnine? No love for Solar War? Who are you, and where's the real Scribe?

[Bobss]

I don't get the dislike for The Solar War. Having not properly read Warhawk as of reading this, it's still my favourite entry in the Siege thus far. Saturnine is a buffet with some really good dishes and some rather w@nk ones, and I don't mean the controversial lore-related stuff either

Edited September 28, 2021 by Bobss

[cheywood]

I’ll take Saturnine over The Solar War, but I think the former works primarily because Abnett’s prose, knack for characterization, and ability to play with the canon of the setting persists even when he moves around at a frenetic pace. Not sure any other BL writer could replicate it. The Solar War, to me, is an example of how quality structure and engaging prose can come together to make something wonderful. There’s a sense of believability and scale to the Solar War that I don’t think the rest of the series has yet equalled, though I’ve yet to read Mortis. Edited September 28, 2021 by cheywood

[Scribe]

 

 

 

Just be thankful they kept Kyme away from the siege...the horror would be truly real then.

You know he's actually the editor-in-chief for the whole thing right? His influence runs through and across it all.

Which book does Vulcan take over then?

 

In all seriousness, the Siege now goes.

 

Saturnine, Mortis, Warhawk.

 

Just as I ignore most of the Heresy, I'm not convinced I need the first books of the Siege, at all.

Saturnine? No love for Solar War? Who are you, and where's the real Scribe?

 

 

I thought Solar War was honestly fine, but I think Saturnine is a turning point where Dan was able to push his Ol/Erda/Perpetual narrative and the other authors buckled and ran with it.

 

The rest of the books and the Heresy itself are going to take a back seat to this arc, for better or (way way) worse.

 

That said, French saved Ol's arc for me, so perhaps Wraight will make Erda relevant, when she should have never existed in the first place. 

[StrangerOrders]

I'll be honest, two big things ruined the Solar War for me.

 

Samus, Loken and their extremely uninteresting sidetrip.

 

The TSons and their elite hax bs completely undermining and unmanning the Solar War.

 

Psychic bs can be fun and fascinating when done right, when screwed up that badly you are left looking at the rest of the setting and being like 'dude, golly gee arent you using this absolutely bonkers power we know you have'.

 

To say nothing about Samus, given later Siege books, apparently having more psychic power apparently than all of the rest of Chaos combined given the :cuss he was able to pull only to have the next book be like 'jeez, if only the Emp didnt hard counter your Daemonic efforts until we spend an entire book tearing down said defense'.

[Bobss]

I’ll take Saturnine over The Solar War, but I think the former works primarily because Abnett’s prose, knack for characterization, and ability to play with the canon of the setting persists even when he moves around at a frenetic pace. Not sure any other BL writer could replicate it. The Solar War, to me, is an example of how quality structure and engaging prose can come together to make something wonderful. There’s a sense of believability and scale to the Solar War that I don’t think the rest of the series has yet equalled, though I’ve yet to read Mortis.

 

Really good post. I strongly echo all of this 

[SkimaskMohawk]

I'll be honest, two big things ruined the Solar War for me.

 

Samus, Loken and their extremely uninteresting sidetrip.

 

The TSons and their elite hax bs completely undermining and unmanning the Solar War.

 

Psychic bs can be fun and fascinating when done right, when screwed up that badly you are left looking at the rest of the setting and being like 'dude, golly gee arent you using this absolutely bonkers power we know you have'.

 

To say nothing about Samus, given later Siege books, apparently having more psychic power apparently than all of the rest of Chaos combined given the :cuss he was able to pull only to have the next book be like 'jeez, if only the Emp didnt hard counter your Daemonic efforts until we spend an entire book tearing down said defense'.

I'm reading through mortis and had a similar thought about the zombie titans, like "wow, of course it's a gotcha the loyalists absolutely get blasted by", but that's honestly a complete trope at this point. Storm of iron has it with the techno virus, the sequel has it with the ventris-clone when they take the star fort, the final ultramarine book has both the ventris clone and a virus, dark disciple has it with the tower, dark apostle has it with the corrupted magis, dark creed has it with possessing the white consuls bodies, know no fear has the scrap code, blood reaver has it with the shriek, master of mankind kind of has it with drachnyen, first wall has it with the techno virus again.

 

The list goes on, but the point is that Imperials having the win with a superior defence, only to be unseamed by some warp based thing they could have never anticipated is a standard 40k thing.

 

I'll also say that the Emperor's protection only applied to terra, and not the space around it, so ofc Samus could manifest.

[StrangerOrders]

 

I'll be honest, two big things ruined the Solar War for me.

Samus, Loken and their extremely uninteresting sidetrip.

The TSons and their elite hax bs completely undermining and unmanning the Solar War.

Psychic bs can be fun and fascinating when done right, when screwed up that badly you are left looking at the rest of the setting and being like 'dude, golly gee arent you using this absolutely bonkers power we know you have'.

To say nothing about Samus, given later Siege books, apparently having more psychic power apparently than all of the rest of Chaos combined given the :cuss he was able to pull only to have the next book be like 'jeez, if only the Emp didnt hard counter your Daemonic efforts until we spend an entire book tearing down said defense'.

I'm reading through mortis and had a similar thought about the zombie titans, like "wow, of course it's a gotcha the loyalists absolutely get blasted by", but that's honestly a complete trope at this point. Storm of iron has it with the techno virus, the sequel has it with the ventris-clone when they take the star fort, the final ultramarine book has both the ventris clone and a virus, dark disciple has it with the tower, dark apostle has it with the corrupted magis, dark creed has it with possessing the white consuls bodies, know no fear has the scrap code, blood reaver has it with the shriek, master of mankind kind of has it with drachnyen, first wall has it with the techno virus again.

The list goes on, but the point is that Imperials having the win with a superior defence, only to be unseamed by some warp based thing they could have never anticipated is a standard 40k thing.

I'll also say that the Emperor's protection only applied to terra, and not the space around it, so ofc Samus could manifest.

I could swear he was haunting all of the Sol system (somehow) including Terra and causing havoc? Only manifesting directly on the Phalanx though.

[Fedor]

Solar War is French's worst book. Psychic shenanigans are indeed a staple of the setting, but French handled the warp advantages of the traitors with a very heavy hand. It ended up coming across as a crutch to avoid having to tell any kind of in-depth strategic clash between the fleets.

 

The Loken and Oliton plot to get the Phalanx out of the way was awful in the opposite manner to the TS superpowers. Overly intricate nonsense. Why couldn't we have just been given a great naval battle and the chance to see some sort of tactical/strategic finesse from Horus and Pert win the day.

 

On the other hand, I liked Mortis more than many seemed to. French nailed a great feel there, even if it's arguably the least important book plot-wise.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Fedor

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

 

I'll be honest, two big things ruined the Solar War for me.

Samus, Loken and their extremely uninteresting sidetrip.

The TSons and their elite hax bs completely undermining and unmanning the Solar War.

Psychic bs can be fun and fascinating when done right, when screwed up that badly you are left looking at the rest of the setting and being like 'dude, golly gee arent you using this absolutely bonkers power we know you have'.

To say nothing about Samus, given later Siege books, apparently having more psychic power apparently than all of the rest of Chaos combined given the :cuss he was able to pull only to have the next book be like 'jeez, if only the Emp didnt hard counter your Daemonic efforts until we spend an entire book tearing down said defense'.

I'm reading through mortis and had a similar thought about the zombie titans, like "wow, of course it's a gotcha the loyalists absolutely get blasted by", but that's honestly a complete trope at this point. Storm of iron has it with the techno virus, the sequel has it with the ventris-clone when they take the star fort, the final ultramarine book has both the ventris clone and a virus, dark disciple has it with the tower, dark apostle has it with the corrupted magis, dark creed has it with possessing the white consuls bodies, know no fear has the scrap code, blood reaver has it with the shriek, master of mankind kind of has it with drachnyen, first wall has it with the techno virus again.

The list goes on, but the point is that Imperials having the win with a superior defence, only to be unseamed by some warp based thing they could have never anticipated is a standard 40k thing.

I'll also say that the Emperor's protection only applied to terra, and not the space around it, so ofc Samus could manifest.

I could swear he was haunting all of the Sol system (somehow) including Terra and causing havoc? Only manifesting directly on the Phalanx though.

I'm pretty sure he only followed mersadie around. There was some spooky stuff that happened to people on terra but iirc that was due to the ritual from the comet.

 

@fedor well I think there's an argument to be made about just how much you can tell the different space battles apart; how much time can you spend on the details before they blend together? There's also the other side of things where Dorn planned the defences for the entirety of the heresy; the alleged siege master needs to seem competent and wouldn't not consider something he could come up with. We know the siege (and heresy) lasts a certain amount of time and the traitors are on the clock, make it too much of a grind and the heresy might run out as well as the time frame on the ultras and DA; have Dorn get outplayed with corporeal tactics quickly and he looks like a chump. There really is only some big psychic thing available to seal the deal in the time frame that was established.

 

A legitimate problem is that it seems sudden and like a gotcha, when I know it was set up somewhat in a short story earlier on.

Edited September 28, 2021 by SkimaskMohawk

[mc warhammer]

solar war is a good book, i was just not overly in love with it. there were long bits that bored me and french's twists either land or don't land for me. they didn't in this.

 

i could have happily skipped all the siege books and started with saturnine, and i'm going to say BL could have too. not even necessarily abnett's book per se, but at that stage of the siege with that intensity.

 

mortis is shaping up to be a decent follow up so far, best horus of the siege. i'm sure warhawk won't drop the ball, despite my mehness on the dot points of the plot. the siege is not so much about plot anyway imo. it should be about desperation, horror, madness, torture, heroism and all that good gut punch stuff.

[Fire Golem]

I loved Solar War for what that’s worth. Parts of it especially. I can vividly remember Sigismund fighting the Sons of Horus and Aximand, for example. I read Solar War literally in one sitting, and then books 2 and 3 each took me weeks to get through.

[Kelborn]

Funny that you're talking about the Siege as I'm starting (or rather start rereading) Solar War and continue with the rest from today onwards.

 

I remember enjoying SW though the Loken and Keeler plot wasn't kinda meh to me.

But then again, I've bought all Siege books by now, thus I shall read them.

Until I've finished Warhawk, the remaining two will probably be released by then so I'm true to my original plan of reading them in one row. ;)

 

But where to place the novellas? In release order?

[Sothalor]

Release order should work fine for novellas (at least, the two we've had so far).

 

If you really want to be a stickler for chronological order, then Sons of the Selenar would probably fit in better between The Solar War and The Lost and the Damned. The events of Sons overlap with the void war and the immediate aftermath of the fall of Luna.

 

Fury of Magnus, if I recall, either overlaps the end of/happens right after Saturnine.

[Roomsky]

Warriors of Ultramar - Graham Mcneill (Audio)

 

 

Diehards Only

3/10

 

Based on this book, I am forced to conclude that everything great about Nightbringer was some kind of accident, because none of that is present in its sequel.

Edited September 30, 2021 by Roomsky

[Petitioner's City]

Funny that you're talking about the Siege as I'm starting (or rather start rereading) Solar War and continue with the rest from today onwards.

 

I remember enjoying SW though the Loken and Keeler plot wasn't kinda meh to me.

But then again, I've bought all Siege books by now, thus I shall read them.

Until I've finished Warhawk, the remaining two will probably be released by then so I'm true to my original plan of reading them in one row. ;)

 

But where to place the novellas? In release order?

It's worth looking at this very well done timeline by "Tymell":

 

https://sites.google.com/site/tymellsheresy/horus-heresy-timeline-notes

 

Siege of Terra: The Solar War (January 31,014 - February 31,014)

 

Opens on the first of Primus, the very start of the year, 31,014. Malcador is dealing painted cards, possibly as seen in The Board is Set.

It is said to be 7 years since Oliton came back to the Solar System. This would take us back to the end of 006. Given that Isstvan V took place in the middle of 006, "7 years" isn't entirely accurate, it's probably closer to 8, but not too far off.

Oliton spent 4 years with the Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus before the Heresy.

The War Oath has not seen Sol's light in over a century.

The Alpha Legion attack on Pluto was "months" ago. A bit of a stretch, since indications are that was in mid-late 011, but technically not untrue.

Chapter 6 is 3 days after the attack on Uranus/the Elysian Gate began.

Loken comes to see Malcador 5 days into the dream riots (Chapter 14).

The book ends on the 13th of Secundus, 6 weeks after it opened.

 

Sons of the Selenar (February 31,014 - March 31,014)

 

Opens with the Sisypheum battling at Jupiter. Then they are teleported away by the warp rift that Horus opens at the end of the Solar War.

After this, Sharrowkyn finds a spot to dock in 25 hours, and it's another 9 days before they can sail again. It's another 7 days to Luna.

The Justaerin late in the book talk about Horus not waiting before attacking Terra, and the speartip to the surface they expect, indicating this is still pre-planetfall.

Sharrowkyn is unconscious for 10 days after the Photep appears.

 

Siege of Terra: The Lost and the Damned (February 31,014 - April 31,014)

 

Opens just as The Solar War ends, with the bombardment beginning on the 13th of Secundus. At this point, Mortarion's fleets have not yet arrived, but arrive at the end of Chapter 3, the following day.

Confirms that Vulkan arrived before Sanguinius' return to Terra.

Hanis stood near the Warmaster 10 years ago, before the Heresy, on 63-10.

The traitors launch their first big attack on the 25th of Secundus.

Myzmadra says the scene of her recruitment was maybe 10 or 15 years ago. At the time, "Alpharius" says the Imperium is doomed, and that Horus will turn traitor in "a few years".

In early Quartus it is said that the last meeting of the High Lords (as seen in "The Last Council") was months ago.

The book ends with the first attack on the walls, and Angron landing on the surface, at the 15th of Quartus.

 

Terminus (31,014)

Takes place during the Siege, with the Death Guard advancing on some outer defences of the palace, and Mortarion making planetfall.

 

Child of Chaos (31,014)

Takes place as Erebus is looking down at Terra before an attack (unclear if this is the very opening or a later assault), with him going back and telling his story from childhood.

 

Siege of Terra: The First Wall (January 31,014 - May 31,014)

 

The book has two main storylines: the traitor assault on the Lion's Gate space port and the Addaba Corps making their way towards the Imperial Palace. The assault seems to take place soon after the initial landings in Lost and the Damned, so likely in the latter half of April.

The Addaba parts of the story begin (aside from an opening prologue) 107 days (3.5 months) before the beginning of the assault on Lion's Gate, which would be at the start of 31,014. At this point, Zenobi is 17 years old and there are rumours that Horus' forces are at the outer Solar defences.

4 days after Zenobi's 10th birthday, her hive began production of tanks at Dorn's order. Her 18th birthday is 9 months away at the start of the book. This means tank production began 7 years and 3 months ago, which would be around the beginning of 007.

The compliance of Bious was 20 years ago, so 30,994.

Chapter 12 has the Addaba forces 69 days before the assault, just over a month after the start of their story. At this point (mid-February) traitor forces have apparently entered the atmosphere. If this is the same time as the bombardment began at the end of The Solar War (14th of Secundus), this would put the assault in late April.

The book ends 24 days after the assault, moving us into mid-May.

 

Siege of Terra: Saturnine (May 31,014)

 

Lion's Gate space port fell on the 11th of Quintus.

Perturabo confirmed as the 12th found sun.

Chapter 2 is 5 days after Lion's Gate port fell (so 16th Quintus).

Keeler was moved to Blackstone on the 13th of Quintus.

Chapter 5 is the 21st of Quintus.

Basilio Fo was taken by the 63rd Expeditionary Fleet 15 years ago, so around 30,999. He's 5000 years old.

The last chapter is the 26th of Quintus.

 

Fury of Magnus (May/June 31,014)

Six times in the last 2 days, attackers have come at the Indomitor Wall.

Set after the failed attack on Colossi, loss of Eternity Wall Port, etc (all in Saturnine), and seems not long after.

In Chapter 4, Alivia is brought to Malcador 2 days after Khalid found her again in Chapter 2.

Magnus has not walked the palace paths in over a 150 years.

 

 

[nagashnee]

 

Just be thankful they kept Kyme away from the siege...the horror would be truly real then.

You know he's actually the editor-in-chief for the whole thing right? His influence runs through and across it all.

 

Have no views on him as a editor, hard to tell really without knowing who edits which book and cross comparing editors and authors works etc, lot of work for no real gain.

 

But as a author, i have a very firm view built over many years and books, and much like his salamnder books it contains the words fire and burning in a near infinite loop  .

[Petitioner's City]

 

 

Just be thankful they kept Kyme away from the siege...the horror would be truly real then.

You know he's actually the editor-in-chief for the whole thing right? His influence runs through and across it all.

 

Have no views on him as a editor, hard to tell really without knowing who edits which book and cross comparing editors and authors works etc, lot of work for no real gain.

 

But as a author, i have a very firm view built over many years and books, and much like his salamnder books it contains the words fire and burning in a near infinite loop  .

 

 

I don't know, I actually like that his books are ambitious failures to an extent - there's never anything boring in what Kyme tries to achieve - and that should be lauded, even if the execution maybe doesn't work. I do still find the death of Nemeon very affecting, and I do love the Odyssey nature of Deathfire even if some of the novel (especially the villains) fall flat. The ecological victory at the end is pure fantastical symbolism, and a rare 'green' message for the heresy too :) 

[Noserenda]

Tbh Kyme does make the odd good scene but his biggest sin was making the Salamanders exactly the same as his 40k version, actively surpressing or ignoring any other tensions others might have set up like the terran cadre.

 

Such a wasted opportunity.

[mc warhammer]

only kyme things i've read are chirurgeon which i genuinely enjoyed and skjalds which was inoffensive but forgettable

[cheywood]

Sepulturum’s an enjoyable piece of survival horror. I think Kyme’s a good enough author when he’s writing more domestic 40k. Like with Gav I haven’t liked a single Marine story written by him.