Rate what you Read, or the fight against Necromancy

[Krelious]

I got a hardback copy of Eye of Terra just cuz i like my hardbacks and pictures. Anyhoo I also kinda got it because I knew it had a story about Eliphas the Inheritor from Dawn of War well turns out the story was largely awful due to it being written by Gav Thorpe (the guy just cant write an engaging story) however I guess i did get the bonus of ADB's other side stories about the Nightlords which were both pretty good. 

 

Still reading the book, also got some pretty good stories about the Blood Angels and I think you can see where Abnett got his idea to write the Sanguineous vs Horus fight in first person perspective. 

 

I have no rating for the book as its just a bunch of short stories but I find it funny I got it for largely one reason and ended up liking it for unexpected surprises. 

[Roomsky]

Roomsky's Beast Arises re-read - Part 2

 

The Emperor Expects - Gav Thorpe

 

Who let Thorpe name the Naval protagonist Kulik, when Fabricator General Kubik is an important character throughout the whole series? 

 

This is pretty good though, one of those "I can't believe Thorpe wrote this" kind of books. It's the start of the series' brief period of being truly in the groove; everything starts to click. The war progresses in a tangible way. The Imperial war machine is vast and diverse. We continue to flesh out this point in history without compromising the plotting. The new characters are perfectly serviceable and the established characters all face meaningful, interesting challenges. We don't forget that these orks are supposed to be something frighteningly different, either. I'd hazard that most people with fond memories of TBA are recalling this specific period that Thorpe kicks off.

 

My criticisms are quite minor. The book has a good flow but, as is the series norms, a few running plot threads sort of flop forward instead of taking a purposeful step. And while I liked Kulik's naval adventure, the actual space battles were very middle of the road; Black Library has produced much better.

 

Does the 2nd read recontextualize anything?

 

Not really, besides firmly establishing that the attack moons are easily overwhelmed. It lends credence to the idea that the Imperium's lack of unity is what's losing them the war rather than the Beast's advancements.

 

Veritus is interesting to me because the way he's written shows a shocking amount of restraint for Black Library. There's no winks or nudges as to his true identity, he's simply a collection of descriptors that don't discount him being Sindermann. And why would any character have cause to view him with special reverence? They have no reason to know who Sindermann even is, and his retinue have no reason to go "this guy used to be a remembrancer." While I do think his "Chaos is the real enemy" schtick is a bit forced later on, I appreciate that the character frequently fails to make his plans run smoothly: despite his age and experience, he wasn't raised from birth to wield this kind of power, he probably didn't experience an interrogator's apprenticeship, and he only gained the position when old and set in his ways. I totally buy that when given absolute authority, the best an orator would be able to come up with is to expect that everyone just listens to him.

 

 

The Last Wall - David Annandale

 

Also pretty good, though the Proletarian Crusade plotline suffers a less annoying version of I Am Slaughter's problem: it's a plotline almost entirely devoted to setting up its big twist, making it tedious on the re-read. I don't think this is inherent to the "how is this going to go wrong?" trope either; Annandale himself wrote Damnation of Pythos, which I enjoy plenty on a re-read despite knowing the disaster at the end. While Vangorich and Wienand remain highlights, Tull, Enforcer Haas, and Narkissos don't really have anything to them except personalities specifically crafted to facilitate the twist; they read hollow on their own. Contrast Pythos' Captain Atticus, who's got plenty to say and do that relates to more than his messy end.

 

Beyond that, and Annandale's penchant for the occasional awkward sentence, this is a strong book. It moves very quickly (in a good way,) it knows we want politics before we want yet more battles (if only he didn't forget this later on,) and for the first time a substantial majority of the novel is in the Sol system. We see more of Terra's culture in this age, we get more fluff about how the Inquisition worked in its infancy, and we get all the most interesting characters bouncing off each other; even Lansung gets a bit of dignity! I also appreciate the parallels in each plot regarding decisions under pressure. Here we see Koorland allowed to lead the Last Wall because the situation is unthinkable. Kalkator makes his decision to link up with the Black Templars because the situation is unthinkable. The High Lords load millions of civilians onto weaponless trade ships to invade a planetoid battle station because the situation is unthinkable. The orks have forced every character into a panic and, for good or ill, it sees them make an insane choice. And for the most part I actually believed it. No small feat.

 

Does the 2nd read recontextualize anything?

Coming again to the point that a united Imperium could win the day: the Ork Diplomats. The Beast just made a grand display of his power in the heart of the enemy's domain, thwarted a frankly pitiful counter-attack, and then says "you cannot win, surrender." Despite the orks being wholly in control of the events of this book, I can easily read this as veiled desperation. If The Beast truly is a new level of intelligent when it comes to orks, and if it recognized that it was ultimately still in a weaker position compared to the Imperium, then I could see it making such a gamble. After all, it already knows that select local forces have destroyed attack moons which, while outwardly very threatening, are primarily warp tunnels for actual fleets. Violently scouring Terra could provide the unity the Imperium needed, not just by martyring the throneworld, but by snapping everyone out of any illusions that orks shouldn't be taken as seriously as possible. Those that were paralyzed by fear could also throw caution to the wind in a zealous rage. Scouring Terra could eliminate both of their psychological warfare strategies.

 

And yes, I know I'm reaching, but part of any multi-author series is finding ways to rationalize inconsistency. If you'd like something more fair/negative: the ambassadors themselves. They're awesome, but completely squandered.

 

Bezhrak, and the ambassador class/subspecies in general, gave us a chance to give the Beast some personality. The Beasts are these ancient, monstrous beings who just don't have any reason to actually speak to the Imperials. As a result, it's easy to get bored by "yet more orks, but even BIGGER" as the series goes on. For all they motivate the plot, TBA isn't really about orks at all. Considering how many beats get pointlessly repeated throughout, there was plenty of room to flesh out elements of these super-orks beyond tech priests theorizing about them. We had space to make the big ork series about orks (crazy, I know.)

 

Bezhrak could have been TBA's Nom Anor (for the 2 other NJO fans out there.) A window into orkish society, but an outcast among his own for not having direct killing be his entire purpose. We could have had Haas or Narkissos become his slave cup bearer or something if we didn't want his direct POV. Have him ruminate on the war, his place in it, the orkish vision for the galaxy, etc. Dude could have had an arc. And, speaking pure intimidation and build-up, we could have him scare imperials with tales of the Beast, where it came from, etc. We don't even need to definitively explain The Beast's origin, since Bezhrak could just be spouting mythology and propaganda. But it would give us something beyond "orks big."

 

Instead the whole idea is a prop to kick the Imperium while it's down and then vanish forever. Talk about a waste.

 

 

Overall, still very much enjoying the re-read. The sense of momentum is refreshing, as is reading a multi-author BL series that develops the same core cast in every book.

[Urauloth]

I liked The Emperor Expects a lot, I think it's still a cut above anything else I've read by Thorpe. I enjoyed it more than Slaughter. If Gav ever writes a standalone Imperial Navy book, I'll snap it up.

[LemartestheLost]

2 hours ago, Urauloth said:

I liked The Emperor Expects a lot, I think it's still a cut above anything else I've read by Thorpe. I enjoyed it more than Slaughter. If Gav ever writes a standalone Imperial Navy book, I'll snap it up.

 

This goes for Imperial Navy in general, imo. I know there are only so many ways to write people on a ship, but still! More stuff from their perspective would be ideal, especially as they're the peeps that transport the vast majority of folks everywhere.

[Nagashsnee]

5 hours ago, LemartestheLost said:

 

This goes for Imperial Navy in general, imo. I know there are only so many ways to write people on a ship, but still! More stuff from their perspective would be ideal, especially as they're the peeps that transport the vast majority of folks everywhere.

Between the glimpses we get in things like Gaunts Ghosts and Ciaphas cain the Navy and the Merchant fleet offer huge story chances. The issue is selling it to BL as without Battlefleet Gothic there is no direct game connection.  Rogue traders usually bridge this gap as they can a presence in the game/mono side. 

 

But most books of events usually just brush past the space element. Or worse mangle it completely.  But naval patrols, defences, raids, escorts and counter attacks would be a HUGE part of any actual 40k campaign. 

 

But sections like the Titan Legion fleet in titandeath, or the ship that crossed the rift in Spears of the Emperor offer a glimpse into how fun it could be. The 6 (iirc) dawn of fire book was a navy book and it was also fantastic. 

[byrd9999]

Gav Thorpe, Luther.

 

An episodic look at events in Luther's life, pre- and post-Great Crusade, told in flashbacks during interrogation on The Rock.

 

I was mightily impressed by this one. Gav is someone who knows and loves the lore, and it shows in how much he tied in with this book from existing sources, and how much he added to the lore of places like Caliban.

 

I thought this was well-written, well-paced, and did a great job of placing Luther where he needs to be in the post-Rift timeline.

 

8/10.

[Ubiquitous1984]

15 hours ago, byrd9999 said:

Gav Thorpe, Luther.

 

An episodic look at events in Luther's life, pre- and post-Great Crusade, told in flashbacks during interrogation on The Rock.

 

I was mightily impressed by this one. Gav is someone who knows and loves the lore, and it shows in how much he tied in with this book from existing sources, and how much he added to the lore of places like Caliban.

 

I thought this was well-written, well-paced, and did a great job of placing Luther where he needs to be in the post-Rift timeline.

 

8/10.

That was indeed a really enjoyable book.  Gav gets so much stick online, but on this page of the thread alone there are reviews of two quality books that he's produced.  How many BL authors even have one quality novel to their name?

[DarkChaplain]

And that's without anybody mentioning Lorgar: Bearer of the Word, or his WHFB Sundering Trilogy...

[Ubiquitous1984]

1 hour ago, DarkChaplain said:

And that's without anybody mentioning Lorgar: Bearer of the Word, or his WHFB Sundering Trilogy...

Am I pushing it if I say I enjoyed The First Wall and the never ending train ride, and would consider that a quality book too?

[The Scorpion]

20 hours ago, byrd9999 said:

Gav Thorpe, Luther.

 

An episodic look at events in Luther's life, pre- and post-Great Crusade, told in flashbacks during interrogation on The Rock.

 

I was mightily impressed by this one. Gav is someone who knows and loves the lore, and it shows in how much he tied in with this book from existing sources, and how much he added to the lore of places like Caliban.

 

I thought this was well-written, well-paced, and did a great job of placing Luther where he needs to be in the post-Rift timeline.

 

8/10.

First of the Fallen is the book that convinced me to give Thorpe the benefit of the doubt going forwards despite his large haterbase

[Roomsky]

I don't want to deny Thorpe, or any author, their flowers. The guy's written stuff I really like (Rogal Dorn, Angels of Darkness, The Emperor Expects, Ashes of Prospero) and a lot that I didn't vibe with at all (Indomitus is an easy bottom 5 Black library novel, IMO.) Inconsistency is really frustrating because it's a risk every time I pick up one of his books hoping for another Rogal Dorn and getting another Ravenwing instead. At least with uniformly bad authors I can just skip em and move on.

 

Though if I could enforce some kind of "no grand-scale action" filter onto Thorpe, I think I'd pick up most of his work and enjoy them.

Edited December 1 by Roomsky

[wecanhaveallthree]

Anybody who doesn't think Ghost Warrior has one of the best intros in any BL book is a coward and a fool.

 

'You would not doubt the advice of this reliable narrator, would you?' hnnnnnnnngh.

 

When Thorpe is playing with the medium, he's unstoppable. Luther and Lorgar are actual god-tier character books, and if only that dastardly Guy Haley hadn't been possessed by evil spirits to pen Hammer of Olympia he'd have the top spot in the Primarch series easily. You know, until Horus' book is released, of course, ah ha ha ha!

[SvenIronhand]

Asurmen: Hand of Asuryan. Thorpe, Gav.

7/10.

Good story, but not great literature. An 8-10 are for genuinely great yarns.

I quite enjoyed this one. I wasn't sure how Asurmen would come across when I opened this up on my Kindle, but he came across as surprisingly humble and (dare I say) human throughout the story's course. His Confucian-esque warrior philosophy brings to mind karate and other such martial arts. The pilot Neridiath makes for an excellent contrast to Asurmen with her initial pacifistic beliefs, and the other characters are fun.

 

[Ubiquitous1984]

3 hours ago, wecanhaveallthree said:

Anybody who doesn't think Ghost Warrior has one of the best intros in any BL book is a coward and a fool.

 

'You would not doubt the advice of this reliable narrator, would you?' hnnnnnnnngh.

 

When Thorpe is playing with the medium, he's unstoppable. Luther and Lorgar are actual god-tier character books, and if only that dastardly Guy Haley hadn't been possessed by evil spirits to pen Hammer of Olympia he'd have the top spot in the Primarch series easily. You know, until Horus' book is released, of course, ah ha ha ha!

Have you read the Dorn primarch book?  That was good fun too IMO, and the audiobook in particular elevated it still further with some excellent production and narration from the cast (yes, cast!).

Edited December 2 by Ubiquitous1984

[Krelious]

On 12/2/2024 at 4:50 AM, wecanhaveallthree said:

Anybody who doesn't think Ghost Warrior has one of the best intros in any BL book is a coward and a fool.

 

'You would not doubt the advice of this reliable narrator, would you?' hnnnnnnnngh.

 

When Thorpe is playing with the medium, he's unstoppable. Luther and Lorgar are actual god-tier character books, and if only that dastardly Guy Haley hadn't been possessed by evil spirits to pen Hammer of Olympia he'd have the top spot in the Primarch series easily. You know, until Horus' book is released, of course, ah ha ha ha!

I'd hate to be that guy but I honestly cant stand anything by this author even his short stories are bad. I think Gav is a big picture type guy and he is great at creating interesting concepts but as far as fleshing characters out and writing and executing an engaging novel his works are not for me.  Even if it came with a glowing recommendation I would hope to never pick up another Gav Thorpe novel in my life.

[wecanhaveallthree]

Same but for ADB. I guess I just don't like slave girls enough - a terrible personal failing that I've struggled with all my life.

[EmprahsStrongestGuardsman]

Only GW I ever really enjoyed was Lord of the Night by Simon Spurrier.

 

It's the one about Zso Sahaal Going into suspended animation shortly after the Heresy and waking up to find his special relic he got from Curze stolen.

 

It's a very interesting story in that it gives a great sense of Sahaal's philosophy of war, as well as his sense of alienation towards the more modern Night Lords. He saw terror as a tool, not an end in itself, and looked down on daemon worshippers.

You get the impression that Sahaal feels so lost after 10k years. Everything he knew was just gone, or betrayed.

[byrd9999]

Cypher: Lord of the Fallen, by John French

 

Firstly, has John French's prose ever been this good? For me, he's been hit or miss. His Ahriman stuff leans way too heavily, for my tastes, into the Tzeentchian pile-up of crazy warp shenanigans, which ends up being meaningless noise. In Cypher, he's toned down the abstract stuff and focused more on clear prose. There's still a whole load of Frenchian "The truth is that I am lying" pretzel logic, but here it seems in service of the story, rather than a cop-out.

There is some excellent world-building on Terra, with entire cities pushed down under the accumulated buildings over time and now forgotten.

The structure of the novel, which doesn't fully reveal itself until 3/4s through the book, was another excellent artisitc choice. The colloquial address of the reader/listener throughout the book makes it seem like an interrogation (like Gav Thorpe's excellent Luther), but ultimately reveals itself to be Cypher allowing a Dark Angels Librarian, in the middle of one-on-one combat, into his thoughts.

However, Cypher himself is largely absent from the book. Most of the action he narrates involves third parties, and when Cypher and his Fallen do take centre-stage, they are not given much personality, motivation or backstory. The plot is largely driven by 3rd parties trying to get to Cypher, and he ends up being someplace else. Cypher himself has his own maguffin (the Sword), but beyond that he's inscrutable. I get that Cypher remains, literally, a "cypher", but while this is intellectually understandable, it is emotionally unsatisfying as a reader.

At 180 pages, there was scope to add 40 pages of chararcter, motivation, and a real sense of purpose as to what Cypher wants to do next. We know from the Dark Imperium lore what Cypher does next, and it would have been more satisfying to have Cypher tie into that more, rather than end it on a whimper.

 

tl;dr - a well-styled slice of Rift-opening-era lore that ends up feeling a little underwhelming.

 

6.5/10

[DarkChaplain]

Pretty much echoing my own feelings on the book. Artistically brilliant, but the content is severely unsatisfying. It would've worked much better as the originally planned audio drama box set, but when it was decided to transition to a novel format instead, it needed more meat added to its bones - and it didn't get that.

[Fenriwolf]

I just realized i' ve not finished Lords of the Lance after buying it almost a year ago at this point. 

 

I want to like it. I really do. But god, there are too many things that take me out of it. And i don't mean the pretty surface stuff that crowded discourse about the book back then.  

It just feels like everything is so incredibly on the wrong scale. 

Between armies that are too small to make sense, travel times that make no sense and other stuff like that, i keep having to stop and think how does this work?

And what really bothers me is that there are bits here and there that have really good potential 

 

Guess 10+ year didn't really dispel the curse of "Bretonnia can't get a really good book (unless it's actually a book about Vampires)"

Edited Friday at 05:28 PM by Fenriwolf