Bulwyf Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 We know the fluff from the codex states flat out that all the pre conditions of his return have been met. So the Wolftime is now upon us. But when and where, exactly, will we see Russ? I am reading the Lords of Silence, the new Death Guard novel, and there is a fascinating part in it. This won't spoil the story of the novel but Mortarion states... That when the Great Rift opens, the Demon Primarchs will escape the Eye and come out to explore the galaxy. He also states that ALL of the surviving Loyal primarchs will be found. Mortarion as a demon primarch is timeless like other demons meaning he knows things that happened in the past and the future since time has no meaning in the warp. He speaks it as an absolute given that all the primarchs are coming back. So we have both our codex confirming Russ is returning plus a BL novel set in current 40k timeline that says all the remaining surviving primarchs, chaos and loyal, are coming back. I have to think that a campaign is coming soon that will bring Russ back as well as another Demon Primarch. Fulgrim has been hinted so heavily in rumor mills that he would be my guess. But where would this be? Where would Russ emerge back from the Eye? Fenris? Or where he's needed most? Where would that be if not Fenris? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349753-so-when-do-you-think-russ-will-be-back/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Triszin Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 honestly, that passage is part of "ashes of prosperp" where the old wolves, the remaining 13th co that didnt turn were rescued by 40k wolves. so the 13th co is back fully, great company size. all thats left is RUSS. I assume he is/will be with whatever warzone/campaign series has the wolves in it again. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349753-so-when-do-you-think-russ-will-be-back/#findComment-5150092 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 Mortarion as a demon primarch is timeless like other demons meaning he knows things that happened in the past and the future since time has no meaning in the warp. He speaks it as an absolute given that all the primarchs are coming back. Daemons don't know things that happen in the future. Tzeentch had to throw one of his Lord of Change into his well so the LoC got that ability (and by extend that way Tzeentch got it too of course). It's however likely that there's some prophecy floating around and Mortarion simply taking it as a given. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349753-so-when-do-you-think-russ-will-be-back/#findComment-5150115 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulwyf Posted August 21, 2018 Author Share Posted August 21, 2018 Mortarion as a demon primarch is timeless like other demons meaning he knows things that happened in the past and the future since time has no meaning in the warp. He speaks it as an absolute given that all the primarchs are coming back. Daemons don't know things that happen in the future. Tzeentch had to throw one of his Lord of Change into his well so the LoC got that ability (and by extend that way Tzeentch got it too of course). It's however likely that there's some prophecy floating around and Mortarion simply taking it as a given. Yes, actually, they do. There are countless examples in fluff and novels where demons have shown that ability. The warp is timeless and the demons exist in a timeless state. In this particular example in the book, Mortarion is talking to a regular Plague Marine champion and was speaking of the Rift opening and the primarchs return as if it already happened. When the Plague Marine is confused, not knowing what he is talking about, Mortarion clarifies that the PM doesn't see time in the same fashion and that these events "hadn't happened yet" for him. But we know they do. The Rift opened and the primarchs are already coming back. Mortarion knew this before it happened. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349753-so-when-do-you-think-russ-will-be-back/#findComment-5150126 Share on other sites More sharing options...
clanfield Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 just a thought but what if the remaining primarchs are guarding the webway portal to terra in the webway soo if the world is doomed they are free to return ....only lion is know to be somewere else ? crazy museing i had Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349753-so-when-do-you-think-russ-will-be-back/#findComment-5150132 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 I guess they can see their own future since they'd be actually experiencing it while Kairos can see any future anywhere regardless of whether he would be actually there to experience it or not. That's honestly the only explanation I would have for it since otherwise the whole point of one of the most famous Lord of Change wouldn't make any sense at all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349753-so-when-do-you-think-russ-will-be-back/#findComment-5150133 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalwolf Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 It has to be something suitably epic and at this point I can only see: - An alliance of the returned demon Primarchs go against Guilliman and he's about to fall 1 v 4 when Russ arrives with the Lion after healing him with Isha's tears. That would be an amazing return that satisfies a lot of fanbase, the Wolf and the Lion saving the day. EDIT: And Valdor. That's a hell of a triumvirate kit. I'd pay £500 for it just to see that happen lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349753-so-when-do-you-think-russ-will-be-back/#findComment-5150149 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Triszin Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 /\ I want Russ to rescue Isha with valdor now. eldar saved guilliman? russ saves isha, now the eldar's pantheon is starting to come back Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349753-so-when-do-you-think-russ-will-be-back/#findComment-5150154 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulwyf Posted August 21, 2018 Author Share Posted August 21, 2018 I guess they can see their own future since they'd be actually experiencing it while Kairos can see any future anywhere regardless of whether he would be actually there to experience it or not. That's honestly the only explanation I would have for it since otherwise the whole point of one of the most famous Lord of Change wouldn't make any sense at all. yes, they can see their own individual future. I probably should have worded that better. Mortarion's personal experience in the future is what he was relating to that guy in the present day. /\ I want Russ to rescue Isha with valdor now. eldar saved guilliman? russ saves isha, now the eldar's pantheon is starting to come back I've long thought that when GW starts giving other factions their own versions of primarchs for game balance reasons in 40k that the Eldar's version might be avatars of various eldar gods. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349753-so-when-do-you-think-russ-will-be-back/#findComment-5150158 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 "So when do you think Russ will be back?" For the Wolf Time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349753-so-when-do-you-think-russ-will-be-back/#findComment-5150171 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 I would love, beyond words, a Lion and Wolf set comprising the Lion and Leman Russ. It would be spectacular. A campaign that culminates in the brothers reuniting and helping Guilliman. Also, following this I'd love a "From golden Light they come" set comprised of Dorn and Valdor. Perhaps Valdor has been on a secret mission to find Dorn? As for Eldar, we have the avatar of Khaine and the Yncarne - both incredibly powerful but not full fledged Gods. A rescued, but wrathful Isha, would be pretty darn cool! As for other factions getting heroes, the Orks are in a prime position to get a Beast style warboss. DE could finally get a Vect model with rules - not Primarch power but could have all sorts of amazing wargear and Tactical abilities. The Astra Militarum need someone like Solar Machrius - a new super commander of unparalleled ability and charisma. AdMech have Cawl, Sisters have Celestine, Nids have the Swarmlord. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349753-so-when-do-you-think-russ-will-be-back/#findComment-5150181 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 I think Primarchs returning is going to be a faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar more drawn out process than any of us can predict. Each one is going to be its own splash and milked for every cent, both content and $ wise. I don't think they are going to touch any Primarch in 40k that has not already been covered by 30k FW books. I thought the Lion would be the first Primarch after RG, but the more I think about it, the more I don't think they're going to touch anything until the 30k iterations are fleshed out (makes sense). In which case the Lion would be last... ...and Russ is a prime candidate for next up. Him or Khan (calling it here) since Khan's 30k stuff will be out in Book 8 Malevolence which comes out.....soon-ish? I think we're going to see roughly 3:2 or even 3:1 ratio for Traitor Primarchs to Loyalist Primarchs returning, mostly driven by models: with the way GW models are looking these days, Daemon primarchs give far more creativity to the modellers and I think that's going to dictate release order far more than we'd like to admit. Btw....is it confirmed that Valdor is alive in 41k? If not, I have a sneaky feeling he buys it at the Siege of Terra. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349753-so-when-do-you-think-russ-will-be-back/#findComment-5150199 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Triszin Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 I think Primarchs returning is going to be a faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar more drawn out process than any of us can predict. Each one is going to be its own splash and milked for every cent, both content and $ wise. I don't think they are going to touch any Primarch in 40k that has not already been covered by 30k FW books. I thought the Lion would be the first Primarch after RG, but the more I think about it, the more I don't think they're going to touch anything until the 30k iterations are fleshed out (makes sense). In which case the Lion would be last... ...and Russ is a prime candidate for next up. Him or Khan (calling it here) since Khan's 30k stuff will be out in Book 8 Malevolence which comes out.....soon-ish? I think we're going to see roughly 3:2 or even 3:1 ratio for Traitor Primarchs to Loyalist Primarchs returning, mostly driven by models: with the way GW models are looking these days, Daemon primarchs give far more creativity to the modellers and I think that's going to dictate release order far more than we'd like to admit. Btw....is it confirmed that Valdor is alive in 41k? If not, I have a sneaky feeling he buys it at the Siege of Terra. look for the two blades HH short. he may or may not be alive, but valdor left the same night russ did. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349753-so-when-do-you-think-russ-will-be-back/#findComment-5150209 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalwolf Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 It's confirmed he survives and, most likely, leaves with Russ to the eye of Terror. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349753-so-when-do-you-think-russ-will-be-back/#findComment-5150216 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 I feel that Primarchs can unbalance the game. If another loyalist Primarch is release I’m sure we would see some play it and Guilliman in the same list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349753-so-when-do-you-think-russ-will-be-back/#findComment-5150217 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 Only in Apocalypse. Guilliman only really works at 2k or more as it's more efficient to simply take more units at lower point games. The Daemon Primarchs are mobile units with psychic support, so you do see both Magnus and Mortarion in some lists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349753-so-when-do-you-think-russ-will-be-back/#findComment-5150219 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Triszin Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 I feel that Primarchs can unbalance the game. If another loyalist Primarch is release I’m sure we would see some play it and Guilliman in the same list. They haven't really unbalanced the game so far. some people think their armies perform better without them. but IM curious to see what the answer by other factions will be to a primarch, with their own characters. nids get a Norn quenn? tau get Kais/robot puretide? dark eldar could get a vaal fragment and so on Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349753-so-when-do-you-think-russ-will-be-back/#findComment-5150223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteySödes Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 Not every faction needs a "Primarch". Guard have plenty of superheavies and plenty of things like orders to do the same thing for example. I do think things like Vect should come back but the idea that we should make stuff up to appease everyone is dumb. Marines dont really have a reasonable superheavy type so primarchs could be the answer. Nids really need some love here though for sure but I already think the game is too 2007 Apoc as it is... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349753-so-when-do-you-think-russ-will-be-back/#findComment-5150229 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalwolf Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 Add keyword Primarch to all of them. New rule: units with keyword Primarch are limited to 1 every 2,000 points. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349753-so-when-do-you-think-russ-will-be-back/#findComment-5150241 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 Hold up, the Morty/Magnus combo is pretty cool and I'd hate to see it banned, especially as lists can have multiple Knights and Shadowswords! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349753-so-when-do-you-think-russ-will-be-back/#findComment-5150243 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorin Helm-splitter Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 I feel that Primarchs can unbalance the game. If another loyalist Primarch is release I’m sure we would see some play it and Guilliman in the same list. Would it though? I mean Guilliman isn't really that effective without a good amount of ultramarines, and I'm willing to bet the other loyalist primarchs will also be force multipliers. With ~800 points tied up with those two characters, would people be able to split the remaining points up well enough considering your already at 2 detachments. With chaos you have cheap troops available, a supreme command with magnus and princes takes advantage of the buffs he provides, and both primarchs are flying beatsticks. I know that people run lists like this but I wasn't under the impression that they were top tier. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349753-so-when-do-you-think-russ-will-be-back/#findComment-5150245 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalwolf Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 Or don't then. I don't really care. Just give me the Lion and the Wolf set. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349753-so-when-do-you-think-russ-will-be-back/#findComment-5150247 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greysquigg Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 El Johnson, Magnus and Fulgrin... The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349753-so-when-do-you-think-russ-will-be-back/#findComment-5150294 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightHowler Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 El Johnson, Magnus and Fulgrin... The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.oh the humanity Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349753-so-when-do-you-think-russ-will-be-back/#findComment-5150297 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 El Johnson, Magnus and Fulgrin... The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. This tickled me Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349753-so-when-do-you-think-russ-will-be-back/#findComment-5150307 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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