Manticores?

[Commissar potato]

This is just a quick topic, but I don’t see manticores ever mentioned any more so I would just like to get some peoples opinions on if they are good or not.

 

I personally would never take one over a basilisk especially when they are like 40 points more.

 

I think it’s beacuse of the 2d6 and how unreliable that is. Also, ap -2 on a big death missile is a little weird.

 

Again, just a quick question but it would be cool to hear some thoughts.

[librisrouge]

I still like them. However, I keep mine next to Harker, meaning they're also Catachan. This boost to accuracy and more reliability in the number of shots they get makes up for a lot. Basilisks don't benefit as much from being Catachan as manticores do, so I get a bit more from them.

[Lord Marshal]

I personally would never take one over a basilisk especially when they are like 40 points more.

 

 

That's pretty much it, yeah. Manticores also can't be squadron'ed which can occasionally - if rarely - be an issue.

 

Although I fully expect in the next Chapter Approved Basilisks will receive a 40pt increase to make people balance how much they want the extra AP.

[Halfpint100]

I take one of each because they are fun and I like variety. Plus people think they are scarier that they are, so become a target 

[Commissar potato]

How about Wyverns? I dislike them because I can get 9d6 shot from three mortar teams for cheaper. But your opinions may vary 

[duz_]

I think most people at this point agree with your logic on the Wyvren. If they got their ignore cover back even as a 1CP stratagem they'd have more utility.

 

As for manticores I've never had that great experience with them for their price. 2D6 is too swingy for the number of shots and there aren't many targets that S10 AP-2 offers better damage output vs S9 AP-3 especially when both are D:D3

[Commissar potato]

I am asking these questions because I am building a list and it has 6 basalisks some battle cannon tank commanders, Pask, infantry with mortars and 3 mortar teams. I was wondering if I should switch the tank commanders and Pask for some wyverns and manticores

But the verdict on these vehicles seem to be negative.

 

 

One more question, do you think a list with 9 basilisk is viable? Or just obsessive:)

 

Sorry this has turned into more of an army list discussion so I apologize for that.

[Halfpint100]

9 basilisks is worthy of the guard

[Wassa]

I like the Manticore, it helps them being Catachan so you can reroll one of the dice, and the other if you want to use a CP.

 

The argument is that a game is usually decided after 4 turns anyway and so only having 4 shots isn't a big deal, whereas the Basilisk can keep on firing.

[WarriorFish]

It is a bit odd how some of the fortunes of units seem to be a see-saw of late, it does leave Manticores in the cold compared to Bassies. Good to have them being good again but would that it were not at the cost of the Manticore... Though I have the ability to roll well on random shots for big guns it's the AP that hurts it most I think, as you'll want to be putting that strength to good use but there's a few too many rolls potentially reducing that.

 

I need to repair mine, but maybe once I do I'll give it a spin see how it goes for something a bit different. My main issue is I love Bassies so I'm really enjoying their chance to shine currently

[Kierdale]

I was about to post ”With a Bassie you can always make a slide-on barrel sheath to turn it into a Medusa, too”...then checked and found the only Medusae with rules in 8th are the fun carriages and the enclosed Armageddon version :(

 

It wouldn’t be hard to do rules for an open-top one though:

Normal Bassie to Armageddon Bassie is +1W

Armageddon Bassie and Medusa are both 115pts, so an open top Medusa would be the same points as an open Bassie...

[Commissar potato]

I thought about taking a spearhead of catachan manticores and wyverns, but do you think the re till Is worth losing overlapping fields of fire for them?

[Colonel Cross]

I think the Manticore might make a bit of a comeback now with all the knights roaming around.  Still wounds on 3s like the Basilisks but you're not "wasting" any AP on their 3+ going to 5++ and you can potentially get twice as many shots.  

 

I'm not really an advocate of either platform, though, as I roll so poorly for artillery it never does much. Id just rather have more Leman Russes tbh .

[librisrouge]

I’ve had fun with three basilisks and two manticores before. They worked very well but weren’t quite enough AT in a list that was mostly small arms after that.

[-Nemesis-]

They cost more, but do more damage than Basilisks, especially if you can introduce some form of buffs to the equation.  I think both are valid options.

[FallenSoldiers]

The only thing I like better about the Manticore (aside from its looks) is T7 vs T6. I’ve not found anything to be worth the extra 35ish points.

 

Having a few Catachan manticores + a Chaos Opponent + using Vengance can be nasty... but requires such a points sink that unless you KNOW you’re facing chaos it’s just a huge gamble

[Tokugawa]

 

 

I personally would never take one over a basilisk especially when they are like 40 points more.

 

That's pretty much it, yeah. Manticores also can't be squadron'ed which can occasionally - if rarely - be an issue.

 

Although I fully expect in the next Chapter Approved Basilisks will receive a 40pt increase to make people balance how much they want the extra AP.

148?pts bassie would be rendered totally unplayable. That is over-cruel.

[Halfpint100]

Nah, basilisks may go up, but not by 40. You have to remember they are T6 base, so are easy to damage, also average of 4-5 shots, which isnt that much overall. I think they are fairly priced, mine do decent damage. But nothing OP, only when fielded in mass (like everything else)

[Feral_80]

I find Basilisks moderately effective already. Even fielded an masse, they are not that huge deal. I don't see any reason to increase their pts cost at all, unless the aim is to make them totally unplayable.

 

The aerial spotter stratagem is a useless joke. Harker is only worth it when you field at least 4 Basilisks.

Generally, a playable unit but certainly not overpowered. I've never fielded a Manticore, which is a worse unit.

[Mordian Glory]

Manticores are kinda like Deathstrike Missiles.

 

What I mean by this is they have the potential to do huge damage, but they are not reliable and can have huge swings in power. I have seen them obliterate  key units like a land raider in a single volley. I have also seen them fail to kill a single ork boy. 

 

Manticores are expensive because of the POTENTIAL damage they can do, which is in theory 36 damage! Does this make them worth it? Maybe.

 

Basically, the choice is between taking the safer, more reliable basilisk (which is gonna do at least some damage every turn) vs the much more swingy but potential much more power manticore (which might do nothing, or it might take out 10 chaos termies!).

[TheUbikator]

Wyverns are BRUTAL with aerial spotter strategem. On paper 9d6 shots look better, but rerolling to hit and to wound, with added mobility and durability makes wonders. Also It's good to remember that AS allows to re-roll hits for every weapon wyvern has, so that HB re-rolls misses too. Almost every game I've deployed that thing it made its cost in points by T2 or T3 if not sooner.

[Commissar potato]

I am tempted to replace my tank commanders/Pask with 3 manticores and 2 wyverns. Do you think that will do well or should I take 3 wyverns and 2 manticores and have some points for Maby a techpriest engineseer?

[TheUbikator]

I am tempted to replace my tank commanders/Pask with 3 manticores and 2 wyverns. Do you think that will do well or should I take 3 wyverns and 2 manticores and have some points for Maby a techpriest engineseer?

 

I think, that 2 Wyverns are enough. I personally include just 1 in my list, but having 2 is also a good idea. 3 wyverns are the diminishing returns at this point in my opinion. Manticores? Ehh... I love the model, but in a couple of games I played with them RNG screwed me too much. For 133 or 123 points I would take them, but 143? That's a bit much.

[Commissar potato]

That sounds good, Maby I’ll take Pask and a tank commander and then take 2 wyverns.

[sairence]

I like to compare Manticores to Battletanks. They trade extra strength and 9p for toughness and a lot of flexibility.

 

So far, whenever I tried one or the other it's always been the same outcome: Manticores are unreliable unless I throw CPs at them while Battletanks are workhorses that rarely let me down.