Massed Infantry Squads

[librisrouge]

I'm working toward a list with 14 infantry squads with just a plasmagun in each. I'm wanting to run a list where I'm not afraid to sacrifice a host of soldiers for even the slightest of strategic gains, but I'm also including Straken (and thus being Catachan) and a ministorum priest into the list so that the mean can dish it out in melee as well.

 

Does anybody have experience running mobs of infantry? Any advice?

[Kinstryfe]

Wow this was almost my last game played. I ran 12 squads of Plasma/Mortar, 4 with just Grenade Launcher to act agressively, and 2 squads of 30 Conscripts to tarpit. Maximum amounts of Commissars, priests, and commanders were spread around liberally plus Straken. S4 on almost everything from Catachan helped a ton in combat, and against all odds the Conscripts were king. Nobody expects guard to charge in like that. Best advice I can give is play aggressively. Next time I'd do more like you planned and have more squads without a heavy weapon to be more mobile. Best part of it was beyond the HQ and Conscripts my opponent had to just keep choosing from identical targets, so his strategy kind of became flat. I'd definitely consider something in the back field as well if you go all plasma, just to hold things down and act as bait so your enemy may want to move forward and get closer to your plasma. Definitely let us know how it works if you try it, I'm curious if others can do it better than I did.

[librisrouge]

I plan on dropping some artillery in the backfield (probably 3/2 basilisks and manticores) and some hellhounds up front to support the infantry.

 

Thanks for the feedback.

[Colonel Bindoff]

GLORY, TO THE FIRST MAN TO DIE!

 

I’ve run all infantry before; your plan for five artillery pieces and a pair of distraction hellhounds to support and you’ve got about 1500 points there, 140 bodies. Sounds like fun.

 

So the biggest problems I find with all infantry lists are board space and the unwieldy nature of manoeuvring that many troops. You’ve got a lot of weapons with a 24” range and probably, depending on terrain, places where you’re having to stack units in depth. So you may find once you’ve built in a bit of distance between units the guys at the back struggle to be in range.

 

Your artillery plan will help because it’ll make the opponent come to you and deal with the big guns too. Throw infantry onto objectives en masse safe in the knowledge that eventually your men’s bodies will clog up their gun barrels and chain swords, and you will find victory.

[Tirak]

I'd highly advise against conscripts and just bring as many infantry as possible. One of the major advantages is compartmentalizing the counter attack damage, which conscripts do very poorly. Yes, your orders go off more efficiently, however you're better off babysitting them with a couple more officers as the advantage of +1bs/+1ws over conscripts will win the day. Furthermore, it gives you flexibility if you need to move around an enemy combat easier. With that said, charging Catachans can get places quickly and beat the ever loving crap out of them when they get there. I don't recommend giving your sergeants power weapons, but they are a must have on your officers. Also a 1pt boltgun is a good investment just in case you end up not sprinting every turn.

[Feral_80]

Apart from the nightmarish perspective of painting, transporting, deploying, and repacking all those models, first consider an even more scary thing: moving around and 6" bubbles.

 

In a real game you will *never* manage to buff all those squads the way you plan to. Straken will affect only a few, and you'll need at least 3 priests to cover all of them properly (hardly worth it in term of pts). And of course squads will mutually get in the way, obstruct characters and vehicles, etc. and it will be very hard to put each model where you really need it.

 

This is why transports, despite being horribly expensive, are still a thing after all.

[Halfpint100]

Don't forget to make the squads obviously different so there is less confusion.

 

A supreme command of 3 lord commissars may be worth it as well, LD9 re-roll by shooting someone or if you have the extra 60 points. 3 Inquisitors, no re-roll, but you get some psychic support and defence (making the opponent characters shoot their own guys with overcharged plasma and they roll a 1, it is priceless!). 

 

I am assuming it would be:

 

3 company commanders, straken 

3 priests

lots of infantry

3 hellhounds

3 of a mix of basiliks/ manticores 

 

Sounds like a good mix of our strongest units to me  

[Are Verlo]

Liberal use of «consolidate squads» will help too.

1-2 guardsmen left from one unit, especially if one has plasma or some other special weapon, are perfect to merge into another unit.

[Mordian Glory]

My time to shine! I am a infantry commander at heart and have been running pure infantry lists since the end of 5th edition :P

 

Pure infantry lists are very good in 8th at the moment, people have got used to facing elite armies like custodes, knights and DE Talos that they actually forget to bring adequate anti-infantry. Things like twin assault cannon razorbacks have dropped out of many peoples lists. 

 

My last game I ran 252 infantry split into 3 "platoons". Each platoon was made up the following units:

6 infantry squads with special and heavy weapons (mix of flamer/plasma/grenade launcher and heavy bolter/autocannon) 
veteran squad with 3x Grenade Launchers and a missile launcher.
Command squad with 3 snipers and a flag.
Heavy weapon squad with lascannon.

Company commander. 

Platoon Commander.

Lord Commissar.

Astropath. 

 

I was facing against a Space marine army and I crushed them. They had some anti infantry units like a Crusader, but much of their firepower was wasted on just killing guardsmen. 

 

I already posted the after action report in another thread, but i can copy and past it here :)

 

 

 

Today my Mordian 50th Rifles drowned the the barbaric and traitorous sons of Russ in a tide of blood and bayonets.

 

I decided to go back to my roots and run a pure infantry army. 3 brigades, each one with Company Commander, Lord Commissar, Astropath, Sniper Command Squad, Veterans with 3x GL and Missile Launcher, Platoon commander, 6x Infantry Squads (with a mix of autocannons, Heavy bolters, flamers, plasma and GLs) and a Lascannon HWS.

 

In total 252 infantry models on the board! Huzzah!

 

My opponent ran Njal, Wolf Captian, Jump Pack Wolf Captain, Land Raider Cusader, Big blob of wulfen. 3 squads of grey hunters. 2 squads of long fangs (lascannons and plama cannons), Dreadnaught with shield and axe and some hellblasters.

 

The game was big guns and the deployment was table quarters. there was a lot of LOS blocking terrain. My opponent delpoyed aggressively with his crusader full of wulfen and dreadnought. He then put all the Long Fangs and Hell blasters on one flank and all the other infantry on the other. I deployed a core of 3 veteran squads arround my warlord and then line after line of guardsmen with characters interspersed.

 

The wolfs got 1st turn and did some impressive damage. The crusader hosed down 3 squads by splitting its fire and killed each squad down to less then half numbers. The fangs went after my heavy weapons and killed a squad of lascannons. Other scattered casualties were caused but in total the death toll was about 30-40 infantry and the first wave was badly mauled.

 

In response I did something which surprised my opponent, I moved and advanced nearly every unit forward apart from the big blob of vets. I then used Forwards for the Emperor on nearly every unit and started shooting. The Raider was reduced to 7 wounds and the dreadnought to 2. I also killed 2 of the hellblasters and nearly 1 full squad of Grey Hunters. Thanks to my aggressive movement phase I was on 3 of the 4 objectives with the remnants of the first wave and the start second wave.

 

The enemy now realized that I was not just going to gunline and began truely going for the objectives. All units in his army moved up with the objective in the centre being their main target. The Wulfen and Jump Wolf Chaplain came out of the Crusader. The shooting phase was similar to the last but with the Crusader being damaged the deaths were not as bad. Then the wolfen hit. They easily wiped out 2 infantry squads and the dread finished another.

 

At this point I had lost about 80-100 men, but that was mearly the first wave dead and the second wave badly  damaged. Now my opponent was closer and no longer hiding behind LOS blocking terrain, it was time for the guard to respond.

 

This time I just moved up. The 3rd and 4th waves moved up to support the 2nd and consolidate my hold on the objectives. Engaged squads pulled back slightly and formed a firing line. Nearly every squad was in rapid fire range. FRFSRF was given to every squad that could take it. In a storm of small arms fire the wolfen were killed to a man, roughly 100 lasgun shots supported by autocannons and flamers. The vets fired another 9 krak grenades and 3 krak missiles at the Raider and killed it. The dread was picked of by sniper mortal wounds. A squad of grey hunters were hosed down and then charged by 2 squads and a Lord Commissar, finishing them off.

 

At the end of my turn 2 the Wolfs only had 20 infantry and 2 chanters left. Facing down over 150 Guardsmen.

 

They made 1 last bid for victory but it was futile, and turn 3 ended the game. The 3rd and 4th waves swept over the remaining Astartes and the Guard fortified 3 of the 4 objectives. WIth only a few Long Fangs left my opponent conceeded the field of battle the IG.

 

[MrZakalwe]

Beautiful and your report really showcases the payoff to that style of list:

 

'so which 4 point model at your going to fire that lascannon at?' 

[librisrouge]

Don't forget to make the squads obviously different so there is less confusion.

 

A supreme command of 3 lord commissars may be worth it as well, LD9 re-roll by shooting someone or if you have the extra 60 points. 3 Inquisitors, no re-roll, but you get some psychic support and defence (making the opponent characters shoot their own guys with overcharged plasma and they roll a 1, it is priceless!). 

 

I am assuming it would be:

 

3 company commanders, straken 

3 priests

lots of infantry

3 hellhounds

3 of a mix of basiliks/ manticores 

 

Sounds like a good mix of our strongest units to me  

I'm going to paint a bright colored strip down the back of each squad's base, to help clarify them, since they'll look identical.

 

For those wondering what list this is: here

 

@Mordian - You're an inspiration, sir. I haven't read your post yet because I'm waiting to enjoy it properly (perhaps with a tasty beverage.) However, I follow your thread and it keeps helping me to stay focused on this goal.

[Kinstryfe]

In fairness, once you realize that you have enough painted guardsmen for a 250ish model force, you need to play it at least once :)

 

Though yes movement is a mess, as are bubbles. You sort of need to pick a few Squads to prioritize and go from there.

[Tirak]

Liberal use of «consolidate squads» will help too.

1-2 guardsmen left from one unit, especially if one has plasma or some other special weapon, are perfect to merge into another unit.

 

That is the only way Consolidate Squads should ever be used. I see some newer guard players like to consolidate quick so they get buff conscripts, but that takes away from one of the greatest advantages guardsmen have, the are hard to get completely off the board in 10 man chunks, but easy in 20 man chunks because it simplifies the opponents target priority, and makes you more vulnerable to morale. Even if Commissars were back to the way they should be, consolidated squads would be a mistake from the targeting standpoint alone.

 

But as special weapon savers and Sergeant Savers (if you decide to go the expensive route and give them power axes or something), you can keep plasma guns around forever and your opponent will need to keep working through the ablative wounds every time. It's not big damage, but it's reasonably consistent and painful damage to his much more expensive elite units :)

[Doof]

 

Liberal use of «consolidate squads» will help too.

1-2 guardsmen left from one unit, especially if one has plasma or some other special weapon, are perfect to merge into another unit.

 

That is the only way Consolidate Squads should ever be used. I see some newer guard players like to consolidate quick so they get buff conscripts, but that takes away from one of the greatest advantages guardsmen have, the are hard to get completely off the board in 10 man chunks, but easy in 20 man chunks because it simplifies the opponents target priority, and makes you more vulnerable to morale. Even if Commissars were back to the way they should be, consolidated squads would be a mistake from the targeting standpoint alone.

 

But as special weapon savers and Sergeant Savers (if you decide to go the expensive route and give them power axes or something), you can keep plasma guns around forever and your opponent will need to keep working through the ablative wounds every time. It's not big damage, but it's reasonably consistent and painful damage to his much more expensive elite units

 

 

I agree mostly, but don't count out other utility moves ie. I have a squad on an objective barely / protecting a character by being in front with some dudes conga lined out behind. I can merge a squad behind via conga-line and now instead of 10 wounds i have 20 wounds to ensure that that objective is held / the character is protected. May  have to auto pass morale, but that's why we have so may command points.

[MinoanFresco]

Hey librisrouge,

 

Bringing a steam roller to a gun fight, eh? ..Ah, massed infantry; a slow, cumbersome, but powerful force to contend with. Often times opponents simply won't have the fire power to deal with *that* many wounds. Buffing auras can be potent force multipliers, to be sure, but are not always necessary. Sometimes, you can win games through sheer numbers alone.

 

I applaud Mordian Glory's application of a massed infantry list. An aggressive advance on objectives with fire support from the back. Personally, I would love to see more people find an interest in building, painting and deploying 250+ models. *sheepishly looks at own pile of unbuilt/unpainted infantry*

 

ahem...

 

As for practical advice, come up with a sequence for your turn so can quickly move, fire, assault, etc.

That way you, 1.) make sure you don't forget to do something, and 2.) your turns won't take an eternity! (your opponent will thank you for it.) 

 

I mean, even a hundred models can take forever to move. I've heard some people use movement trays? But I don't. Just have an order and stick to it. With any luck, your enemies will be smothered with the bodies of your own soldiers, defeated by the law of averages. Remember the oft-quoted Stalinism, "Quantity has a name, and that name is MOARRRRRRRR."

 

~Cheers

 

Minoan Fresco

[Wassa]

I want to try it, I'm noticing my opponents are bringing more and more anti tank against me so one time I want to completely screw them over!

[Are Verlo]

All of you gentlemen in this thread are right. Normaly I play mech-inf steel legion, but you really inspired me with that massed infantry force.

I´ve got 116 steel legion guardsmen, but only 40-ish painted. Following that 50-60 catachans and I can supplement with 15 ratlings, some storm troopers, a priest or two and a unit of 5 basic ogryns.

 

At my hobby-rate it will be done by summer of 2025 ;-P

[-Nemesis-]

I think maybe Krieg would be better for this type of tactic, by utilizing quartermasters for FNP saves and double banner buffs with priests for 4-attack guardsmen who hit on 3+. The morale would be helpful too to make each individual unit as annoying as possible.

[MrZakalwe]

All of you gentlemen in this thread are right. Normaly I play mech-inf steel legion, but you really inspired me with that massed infantry force.

I´ve got 116 steel legion guardsmen, but only 40-ish painted. Following that 50-60 catachans and I can supplement with 15 ratlings, some storm troopers, a priest or two and a unit of 5 basic ogryns.

 

At my hobby-rate it will be done by summer of 2025 ;-P

 

You're a fast painter then?

[Are Verlo]

 

All of you gentlemen in this thread are right. Normaly I play mech-inf steel legion, but you really inspired me with that massed infantry force.

I´ve got 116 steel legion guardsmen, but only 40-ish painted. Following that 50-60 catachans and I can supplement with 15 ratlings, some storm troopers, a priest or two and a unit of 5 basic ogryns.

 

At my hobby-rate it will be done by summer of 2025 ;-P

 

You're a fast painter then?

 

Nah, I´m not that slow because I lower the standard when painting 100+ models. The guardsmen gett little to no highlighting, other than a perhaps some layering, then a wash/shade followed by basing.

My biggest issue is taking the first step and start painting. After a full day at work I want to spend some time with my kids, both quality time and helping with homework, then it´s dinner and when the kids are in bed I´m often tired and can´t find the motivation to get started painting. But once I get started I enjoy batch painting 5-10 guardsmen :-)

[duz_]

I find I get maximum speed at no more than 5-6 models at a time batch painting.

[tychobi]

My advice is don't. It may be a powerful build but it is no fun to play against. Especially without the use of a chess clock.

[Are Verlo]

Use movement-trays. When you need to break formation just remove that unit´s tray. And practice practice practice speed play. Have a plan, do some planning during the opponent´s turn etc.

[GuardDaddy]

Has anyone done the math/geometry on completely covering table with 9" secondary deployment denial? With move move could it be done?