Honoring the VII Legion

[BitsHammer]

So this is a little bit of an obscure question, but how did the VIIth legion mark squads? I don't mean the squad types, but rather squad numbers.

 

My 4th company Primaris project has drifted into a 5th company one due to a preference for colors that worked better together. This in turn reminded me of the Legion era Fists and has inspired a sort of company that is honoring the legion of old by adopting the Legion era markings (this also lets me get more mileage out of my HH decal sheet but that's a side point), but I can't spot how the Fists marked out squad numbers. I need some way to tell squads apart on the table which has led me to asking you guys (the best experts on Imperial Fists I know), which has led to my asking here.

 

If there isn't an answer I may just adopt putting a numeral on their backpacks since the round center bit seems prime for some markings, but I wanted to be a little more accurate if I can. 

[Brother Tyler]

None of the Imperial Fists legionnaires shown in The Horus Heresy III: Extermination show squad numbers. The only number that is frequently displayed is the "VII" for the legion number, which is displayed in a variety of locations.

[BitsHammer]

None of the Imperial Fists legionnaires shown in The Horus Heresy III: Extermination show squad numbers. The only number that is frequently displayed is the "VII" for the legion number, which is displayed in a variety of locations.

Hence my confusion. There are clearly squad numbers, we know because they give squad numbers when showing different examples of them, but I wasn't sure if I missed a general guideline somewhere that showed what squad a Legionnaire belonged to. I mainly need it to ensure I can tell units apart when they get too close to each other but I want to try and maintain some level of accuracy if possible too, hence my questioning.

 

Blame it on nerd based OCD I guess.

[Brother Tyler]

Several of the legionnaires shown in Extermination are in squad numbers in the 60s (e.g., 62nd, 64th), but there are neither Arabic nor Roman numerals corresponding with those squad numbers on the armour. However, all we see are the fronts of the legionnaires, so your plan to display squad number on the backpack wouldn't violate any precedent.

[BitsHammer]

Several of the legionnaires shown in Extermination are in squad numbers in the 60s (e.g., 62nd, 64th), but there are neither Arabic nor Roman numerals corresponding with those squad numbers on the armour. However, all we see are the fronts of the legionnaires, so your plan to display squad number on the backpack wouldn't violate any precedent.

Quite glad to hear it. Mostly because with how 40k works I just know if I didn't mark squads out somehow I could easily end up shuffling around squad members without meaning to. 

 

I'm planning on using role markers (fortress defense as an example) on the right legs to help, but that mostly helps from the front rather than the back, and may not work if the symbols I'm planning on using don't fit the legs. Plus there could still be some overlap for the troops as there are basically three roles to mark out (counting the Zone Mortalis one) and a minimum of 6 troop squads to build for my company....which might eventually start turning into a Crusading Legion ala the Black Templars.

 

Yes, I'm a silly sod who is throwing the codex under the table to fix its wobble and then using that to plan my fortress of yellow on top of it.

[BitsHammer]

So, because I've been rolling this idea around and basically trying to justify it in some kind of lore sense I've started fleshing out some details about my little band of crusaders. This naturally is based on the premise that Cawl could take the legionaries of old and make them into Primaris Marines (hints of this seem to show up in Dark Imperium with some Primaris members having memories of the old 500 worlds detailed enough to convince planetary governors that their planet was part of the Ultramar empire, something that I'd imagine Guilliman's boys would have gained as part of their training back then as he wanted his sons to be statesmen and all that).

 

I'm still basically at the point of having an outline, but it's coming together on some level I think:

 

When Captain Tylanus awoke to the fractured galaxy the first thing he felt was confusion. Confusion in how he'd cheated death ten thousand years ago. Confusion in the changes to his body. Confusion to the changes to the galaxy. Confusion in hearing that his Primarch was no longer walking among his sons.

 

Confusion brought with it anger. Anger at the Ultramarines gifting his broken body over to the Archmagos in secret ten thousand years ago. Anger in how his Emperor gifted physique had been altered to suit the whims of another. Anger in how the Imperium had been left to fester since the Scouring so long ago. 

 

In absense of the pain glove that he once endured as part of his training ten thousand years ago the Indomitus Crusade served as a way to temper that anger for Tylanus, much like how the Iron Cage had tempered the legion so many years ago. With time the fury he showed the traitor forces they fought became tempered. The fire of his anger still burned, but it was given a sense of duty as the Unnumbered Sons attempted to reunite a broken Imperium.

 

It was upon being returned to the Imperial Fists that Tylanus learned of what happened to his gene sire, and the cold flames of anger were nearly extinguished by a sense of loss second only to when the Emperor was struck low. For three days he knelt in silence before the bones of Dorn's hand, not eating, drinking or resting for the entire time. At the end of the third day he rose and requested to meet with Chapter Master Vorn Hagan. 

 

While the conversation the two held in the Chapter Master's chambers is unrecorded, the end result was Tylanus being seconded to the Fifth Company as the leader of a demi-company of Primaris Marines. The Primaris Marines weren't to just serve as replacements to the company however, but instead were to undertake a crusade to every corner of the Imperium.

 

Officially this crusade was to temper the new members of the chapter and provide relief to the Imperium as they fought to bring worlds back into compliance. Unofficially though the crusade had a second purpose: to find their Primarch, be he alive or be he dead. It was as he knelt in front of Dorn's bones that Tylanus could feel his genesire's presence and a feeling he could not explain, only defend with a stubborness that could be seen in a son of Dorn. A feeling that the Primarch was still out there.

 

It was this stubborness that eventually convinced the Chapter Master to permit Tylanus to undergo the crusade as the new Primaris marines were yet unproven to the chapter as a whole and even if the crusade failed they would be tempered by the fires of war and return to the chapter like any other son of Dorn, but if they suceeded it would mean the return of there genesire, and if the Emperor willed it, the Primarch would lead them once more.

 

Only the Emperor knows if the crusade will see success or failure, but the sons of Dorn once forth march into the fires of war.

 

Organizationally, the Primaris don't fall into the same roles as outlined by the Codex Astartes, which has lead to Tylanus feeling justified in largely ignoring the organizational outlines of the book. While claims of legion building have yet to circulate the captain hasn't bothered to limit the number of new recruits he's taken in as the demi-company takes to the field of war, Tylanus has had the crusade adopt the markings of the seventh legion "to honor the Legion". In effect this has changed little in how they chapter fights but it has lead to some questions of where Tylanus' goals truly lie.

 

The change in markings has changed little in how the crusade is fought though, but the change hasn't gone unnoticed with even Guilliman being aware of it, though the Primarch has yet to comment on the change, likely due to the loyalty still being shown by those who've taken to wearing the symbols of a forgotten time. Some more inquisitive minds however have taken to watching Tylanus more closely and stand ready to censure the captain if he is found wanting.

[BitsHammer]

Since I already have a thread, I guess I should put my first two completed models here (and show off I need to figure out how to take pictures of sealed models since they have more sheen, even with the matte finish):
 



So yeah, these guys are happening....slowly. Though batch painting is going to get easier since I'm getting faster at doing these guys as I get used to the steps and work out the colors.

[BitsHammer]

Progress still being made, though definitely still WIP of course.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

The Ancient and his banner look most promising. I hope to see them completed soon.

[BitsHammer]

The Ancient and his banner look most promising. I hope to see them completed soon.

Thanks! I've just got to put some highlights on the banner, clean up some splodgier bits and then base/weather the Ancient himself to call this one "complete". Next up is going to be my Redemptor (I love me my big models and have been forcing myself not to paint him for a while now) followed by a squad of something (likely Aggressors or Inceptors so I can practice batch painting a smaller unit first).

[BitsHammer]

It's a bit silly, but lying models down on my bed seems to get the best picture results. Well if it works it's not wrong, eh? So the Ancient is done and if I do another one I'm going to swap for a different banner to work off of. Maybe the FW HH one so I can use the neat decal banner stuff from the decal sheet.

 

 

 

And with that done work begins on my Redemptor:

 

And yeah....the lack of subassemblies was definitely a mistake. Well it's not the first time I've made that mistake so it's not that hard to work around, just tedious.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Excellent work on the Primaris Ancient.

[BitsHammer]

Thanks! I'm a little proud of how that standard came out so it's nice to hear that other liked it!

 

While B&C was offline I completed by Redemptor, but stalled on my Aggressors as I started to see yellow even in my sleep so needed a small project shift to work on alternatively from these guys which lead to me to start my "Children of the Throne" Genestealer Cult (whom I'm still trying to work on getting all the painting down for).

 

But enough of the heretical xenos stuff, here's my potato pics of the Redemptor:

 

And in great Imperial Fist style silliness, his fist gets a name too:

 

Also all his knuckles have Imperial Fists on them, so that's extra silly I guess.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

The Redemptor is well done.

[BitsHammer]

The Redemptor is well done.

Thanks! I'll be honest, getting some ego feeding recognition is always nice. :D

 

I'm currently working on some GSC but I'll come back to these guys. I just need to balance out staring at yellow all the time and the mostly cool colors of my GSC scheme is a good balance to keep me from burning out on the color. It's a fun thing to work on but I'll admit it now: when 90% of your painting is working on a single massive color thing it's going to wear out your retinas.

[Brother Lunkhead]

Excellent work on your Redemptor brother Your weathering is very fine and I really like the attention to detail with the Fists on the knuckles.... nice touch

[BitsHammer]

Excellent work on your Redemptor brother:tu: Your weathering is very fine and I really like the attention to detail with the Fists on the knuckles.... nice touch:yes:

Thanks! I'm seriously looking at getting a light box and a better camera come tax time next year. Something less potato-y for mini pics. Old Faithful has been just that, but when I'm trying to get those pretty mini pics it just can't handle close up shots well even with the macro setting and picture quality being "super fine".

 

Anyways, here's the first of my "Children of the Throne" GSC:

 

And thanks to his overall colors I have to make a disclaimer: banjo not included. :P

[Montford]

Since according to the fluff one of the regions on Terra that the VII originally recruited from were the Himalays, has anyone ever modeled any Ghurka heritage on their Imperial Fists? I've been thinking about it, perhaps modding khukris as close combat weapons.

[BitsHammer]

Since according to the fluff one of the regions on Terra that the VII originally recruited from were the Himalays, has anyone ever modeled any Ghurka heritage on their Imperial Fists? I've been thinking about it, perhaps modding khukris as close combat weapons.

You know, I don't think I've seen that. 

[Brother Tyler]

 

Since according to the fluff one of the regions on Terra that the VII originally recruited from were the Himalays, has anyone ever modeled any Ghurka heritage on their Imperial Fists? I've been thinking about it, perhaps modding khukris as close combat weapons.

You know, I don't think I've seen that.

 

Nor have I...

 

The first battalions of the VII^th Legion were raised from across Terra. While many other Legions drew their recruits from a particular source, the flesh of the VII^th Legion came from Terra as a whole. Even in domains where other Legions had 'Rights of Tithe', the VIIth took some of the youth as initiates.

 

(page 57)

 

Of course, that official lore doesn't preclude the VII^th Legion having some initiates of Ghurka stock, but it corrects the implication of the stated premise.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Of course, that official lore doesn't preclude the VII^th Legion having some initiates of Ghurka stock, but it corrects the implication of the stated premise.

If there are Fists of Gurkha descent, these Fists should bear kukri knives. This visual diversity would make the Legion/Chapter far more interesting than the "Ultramarines, but in yellow, with a raised fist instead of a funny-looking U" look that Games Workshop keeps giving its Marines.

[Brother Tyler]

"Should" is a strong, and highly inaccurate, word.

 

Keep in mind that the Great Crusade took place thousands of years in the future. In between the current period and that fictional future period, a lot of upheaval took place. We don't even know that the Nepalese culture to which the Ghurkas belong, or an evolution of that culture, even remained. With the Dark Age of Technology and the Age of Strife, it's difficult to say with any certainty that the cultures of the world as we currently understand them remained intact to any degree that anything we currently see as the norm can be said to hold true with any certainty when the Legiones Astartes were created.

 

Mind you, I'm not saying that a kukri or similar forward curving blade would be inappropriate (and not just for our pseudo-Ghurkas, but for any number of other cultures that had similar implements of war). I'm only saying that nothing "should" be done. Rather, things "may" be done depending on the desires of players.

[Montford]

I guess I may have been wrong, but I'd swear I came across the reference. I guess when reading fluff for over twenty years things can become mis-remembered. :(

[BitsHammer]

I guess I may have been wrong, but I'd swear I came across the reference. I guess when reading fluff for over twenty years things can become mis-remembered.

GW is also notorious for both pulling the retcon and the retgone cards at times too which only makes it even harder to keep track of things at times.