Why are SW so popular?

[Nrthstar]

I would counter the hypothesis of OP that our number of posts here doesn't actually equate to our popularity. We used to run a lot of events in this forum, tavern brawls being one, that garnished a TON of posts. With the exception of one of the shops in my town, we have three, I don`t see large quantities of true wolf players. For some reason, there are 4 of us in one shop.

 

If anything, I would call wolves a polarizing army. We are mocked on a lot of open 40k forums, for various reasons. But what happens when something people love is mocked, they double down on that love.

[Wulf Vengis]

The sons of Russ are popular because of respect and their portrayal as still being human at least mentally.

They respect themselves.

They respect each other.

They respect their allies.

They respect their foes.

Every piece of space wolves fiction is about earning the respect of a person or group or learning respect for a person or group.

Their fiction is so laden down with respect I'm amazed no one had mentioned it before.

Then there's their obvious link to humanity. The space wolves have always been portrayed in the fiction as trying to come to terms with the results of their actions and their own emotions. From Russ realizing his legion would have to change if it were to survive; to Ragnar tossing the spear of Russ into the warp to drive Magnus back. The options weighed and debated by the wolves and the uncomfortable conclusions they come to about themselves and their actions have always made them feel relatable as human to me.

[b1soul]

I was wondering about the cultural differences between SW and Vikings.

 

Wraight keeps the primary Mongol influence of the WS but makes them unique in some ways, e.g. the historical Mongol army was all about iron discipline whereas the WS are the laughing killers who delight in chaotic, high-speed melees.

 

Was wondering whether the SW depart from Vikings in similar fashion

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Wraight keeps the primary Mongol influence of the WS but makes them unique in some ways, e.g. the historical Mongol army was all about iron discipline whereas the WS are the laughing killers who delight in chaotic, high-speed melees.

The difference may be due to the author's ignorance of history, i.e., he mistook the stereotype of Mongols as savages, for the reality. Considering the Space Wolves already conform to many stereotypes...

[Kasper_Hawser]

I was wondering about the cultural differences between SW and Vikings.

 

Wraight keeps the primary Mongol influence of the WS but makes them unique in some ways, e.g. the historical Mongol army was all about iron discipline whereas the WS are the laughing killers who delight in chaotic, high-speed melees.

 

Was wondering whether the SW depart from Vikings in similar fashion

 

Speaking as a lay person, I think the Space wolves represent the "IDEALIZED" version of a Viking warrior. At the very least, the killing, boozing, womanizing kind. At best, GW tries to also capture the intricate culture of the Norse mythology and the very rough but strangely civilized society of the Scandinavian and Rus people which were brutal but also had crafts and laws of their own.

 

Apparently during the viking age, not all of their travelling involved killing, womanizing and boozing their way. They were also tradesmen, craftsmen and even explorers.It is now known they also reached Americas a few hundred years before Columbus, though they did not leave a successful colony behind. The Space Wolves do reflect this somewhat in the sense that much of their armoury is stylized and personalized, with the Iron Priests doing an unusual amount of work on a single suit regardless of whether its for a Wolf Lord, blood claw or Grey Hunter. Before their ascension, seacraft would have been absolutely essential to survive Fenris, which reflects the naval advantage during the viking age when the long boat enabled vikings to travel longer, faster, and with more transport than other kingdoms.

 

The only thing that REALLY doesn't jive with viking culture is the whole Thunderwolf or werewolf or wolf wolf wolf stuff. Norse mythology has a number of animals which are revered, such as the squirrel Rattoskyr (sorry, dunnow how to spell), and others, the wolf which is the sign of the endtime Ragnarok is not especially revered. But as we all know, the Wolves don't call themselves Space Wolves, they are Warriors of Fenris, Vlka Fenryka, which was somehow mistranslated just like the White Scars are supposed to be Talskars.

 

In whichever case, viking culture and the corresponding Vikign Age is very intriguing despite the short period it existed, and in transplanting it to the Space wolves, GW successfully made a chapter of Space Marines which were arguably far more interesting or maybe AS INTERESTING as the roman influenced Ultramarines, the medieval crusader knight culture of the Dark Angels.

 

For my part, I hope you guys don't play the "For Honor" game, which is a gross misrepresentation of the 3 cultures it pitted against each other for no logical reason, including the Vikings. i heard they are even going to add Chinese in the next expansion of the game. Bleargh, let all the Three Kingdoms misrepresentaation start again.

[b1soul]

@ Bjorn Firewalker

 

"The difference may be due to the author's ignorance of history, i.e., he mistook the stereotype of Mongols as savages, for the reality."

 

I doubt this because Wraight doesn't portray the WS as savages. He portrays them as quite refined but often viewed as savages...kinda like Abnett's SW, but whereas the SW sometimes relish their barbarian act (and the line between act and true character is sometimes blurred), the WS are very sensitive about their image and have much stronger pretensions to sophistication.

 

@ Kasper_Hawser

 

People have mentioned that unlike the Vikings, the VIth Legion aren't great void-farers.

 

I do think BL could inject more obscure Germanic elements into SW culture. Perhaps Bronze Age Scandinavian or non-Scandinavian Germanic culture

[Sete]

The Suebi had a lot of wolves motives.

[Jackalwolf]

@ Bjorn Firewalker

 

"The difference may be due to the author's ignorance of history, i.e., he mistook the stereotype of Mongols as savages, for the reality."

 

I doubt this because Wraight doesn't portray the WS as savages. He portrays them as quite refined but often viewed as savages...kinda like Abnett's SW, but whereas the SW sometimes relish their barbarian act (and the line between act and true character is sometimes blurred), the WS are very sensitive about their image and have much stronger pretensions to sophistication.

 

@ Kasper_Hawser

 

People have mentioned that unlike the Vikings, the VIth Legion aren't great void-farers.

 

I do think BL could inject more obscure Germanic elements into SW culture. Perhaps Bronze Age Scandinavian or non-Scandinavian Germanic culture

I think that's true and maybe the biggest difference. Space wolves do not relish flight, in the void or atmospheric.

 

Somehow though they do have one of the most powerful fleets.

[Waldwolf]

For me the question is easy to answer why i chose SW back in 2001. I like Vikings, i like wolves and i like werewolves...

[b1soul]

@ Grieux

 

In 30K, the SW fleet is average to below average IIRC

 

In 40K, I believe they have a big fleet because they are a big, non-Codex chapter (like the Black Templars)

 

EDIT: Though I am actually uncertain how the SW fleet compared with those of other First Founding chapters

[Valerian]

I believe that massive comment was originally typed by Valerian; I might be wrong, however.

 

 

Nah, that one wasn't me.  Not my writing style, Brother Karack.  Don't remember who wrote that one.

 

V

[Vash113]

Honestly I think it is true that the Space Wolves are quite popular, and that SW players are also more social and active than many other segments of the community, both of these things can be true simultaneously.

While anecdotal there are a number of Space Wolves players in and around my area, several times more than any other individual chapter. I also agree that the Space Wolves are a polarizing chapter, many players either love or hate the chapter, there isn't a whole lot of in-between in my experience.

Personally I think this is in part because in my experience many Space Wolves players tend to share some characteristics with the chapter they play, being loud, boastful, stubborn, jovial and anti-authoritarian and as such can rub other members of the community the wrong way sometimes. For my part I love that the Space Wolves community is the way it is, and we would rather engage in humor and contests than endlessly mull over the competitive meta or something.

[beefeb]

Ive got 2 power armoured forces in 40k....ultramarines and wolves.

 

Primary reasons for this is i love both romanand norse mythology. Forgetting ultras some of the reasons for my live of the wolves....

 

Logan defied the inquisition to protect the honourable guard soldiers who fought with them at armageddon. He showed that despite being a superhuman he was also still a member of humanity.

 

Axes....sounds silly i suppose but the weapon appeals to me immensely. Its so brutal and effective but its still connected with normal humans as a tool as well as a weapon...unlike swords for example.

 

Thebig heroes if the chapter are still flawed by human standards....ragnar, krom...they all make an arse of things from time to time but are true to their own sense of right and wrong.

 

They are remorseless killers....i dont want my heroes to be plagued by doubt or worry....they kill because its necessary and there is no hand-wringing or whinging about it before or after.

 

Customisation....all chapters are customisable to a greater or lesser extent but wolves are perhaps possessed of most variety or options aesthetically.

 

They like to keep their helmets off in battle so they can smell their prey...awesomeness!

 

They like beer!

 

They got beards!

[b1soul]

"Logan defied the inquisition to protect the honourable guard soldiers who fought with them at armageddon. He showed that despite being a superhuman he was also still a member of humanity."

 

How the SW have grown from 30K to 40K

 

Of all the First Founding chapters, do the Wolves have the most substantial character arc?

 

I think UM have also changed a lot...and not necessarily for the better

[Jackalwolf]

"Logan defied the inquisition to protect the honourable guard soldiers who fought with them at armageddon. He showed that despite being a superhuman he was also still a member of humanity."

 

How the SW have grown from 30K to 40K

 

Of all the First Founding chapters, do the Wolves have the most substantial character arc?

 

I think UM have also changed a lot...and not necessarily for the better

I think so, and the time in the limelight since first edition certainly helped.

 

Thought about what you said about the 30k fleet and it's true, then it dawned on me. They're the only first founding chapter without successors so they kept all the battlebarges of a legion for a single chapter, hence the jump in comparative power to other marines in 40k Vs 30k.

[b1soul]

Yeah, it could be said that Russ' geneseed is the rarest in 40K [by far?] cuz of no successors...but that means a big fleet and a 2000 member chapter

[Vash113]

 

I think so, and the time in the limelight since first edition certainly helped.

 

Thought about what you said about the 30k fleet and it's true, then it dawned on me. They're the only first founding chapter without successors so they kept all the battlebarges of a legion for a single chapter, hence the jump in comparative power to other marines in 40k Vs 30k.

 

 

Not to mention multiple Battleships like the Russvangum and the Scramaseax, as well as the Pride of Fenris and the Iron Wolf, this gives the chapter a full four Battleships, as big or bigger than traditional Battle-Barges and not all of the remaining Great Ships are Strike Cruisers, some are Battle-Cruisers or Grand Cruisers which are larger and more powerful than Strike Cruisers typically, if slower and less maneuverable. I think one of the things that helps with the Space Wolves fleet strength is that they maintain more Great Ships than there are Great Companies to need them, some 15 if I recall correctly, which gives the chapter more capitol-class ships than most chapters, and they are willing to capture and re-purpose ships when needed or they have the opportunity. Like with the strength of the Great Companies the lack of a maximum number of Great Ships allows the Space Wolves to amass a fleet that most chapters would be unable to acquire without drawing sanction, and to acquire ships of classes normally restricted to the Adeptus Astartes. Even the Black Templars and other void-faring chapters rarely field some of the ships the Space Wolves do.

[Jackalwolf]

 

 

I think so, and the time in the limelight since first edition certainly helped.

 

Thought about what you said about the 30k fleet and it's true, then it dawned on me. They're the only first founding chapter without successors so they kept all the battlebarges of a legion for a single chapter, hence the jump in comparative power to other marines in 40k Vs 30k.

 

Not to mention multiple Battleships like the Russvangum and the Scramaseax, as well as the Pride of Fenris and the Iron Wolf, this gives the chapter a full four Battleships, as big or bigger than traditional Battle-Barges and not all of the remaining Great Ships are Strike Cruisers, some are Battle-Cruisers or Grand Cruisers which are larger and more powerful than Strike Cruisers typically, if slower and less maneuverable. I think one of the things that helps with the Space Wolves fleet strength is that they maintain more Great Ships than there are Great Companies to need them, some 15 if I recall correctly, which gives the chapter more capitol-class ships than most chapters, and they are willing to capture and re-purpose ships when needed or they have the opportunity. Like with the strength of the Great Companies the lack of a maximum number of Great Ships allows the Space Wolves to amass a fleet that most chapters would be unable to acquire without drawing sanction, and to acquire ships of classes normally restricted to the Adeptus Astartes. Even the Black Templars and other void-faring chapters rarely field some of the ships the Space Wolves do.

You're right! Totally forgot the new Blackmane novel where they discuss to keep and refit a captured flesh tearers space ship lol.

[Vash113]

 

You're right! Totally forgot the new Blackmane novel where they discuss to keep and refit a captured flesh tearers space ship lol.

 

 

Yes, the practice of wargeld, or looting essentially. If they can lay claim to it in combat or salvage, it's theirs and the original owners should have done a better job of keeping it. The Imperial Navy was none too pleased when Logan Grimnar decided to keep the Retribution-class Battleship he renamed the Pride of Fenris, they wanted it returned after the Space Wolves recaptured it from renegades. One of my favorite stories is the Battle of the Maelstrom's Maw where Wolf Lord Osric Three-Fists is ambushed by a chaos fleet and his vessel, the Voidfang is crippled. The Space Wolves abandon their dying ship and board the enemy flagship, the Storm of Hate and capture it, turning it's guns against the traitor fleet and destroying it completely.

[TiguriusX]

Space Wolves have been taking enemy warships since the days of Leman Russ

 

In the novel where the alpha legion chase them into a nebula they launch a boarding action and capture a bunch of smaller ships then add them to the fleet

 

And don't forget Logan Grimnar's axe is a trophy of war

[b1soul]

Don't all SM factions capture and refit vessels and items?

 

For example...Khayon's axe is a trophy taken from a slain SW, but perhaps this sort of thing is rarer among loyalists

[Vash113]

Don't all SM factions capture and refit vessels and items?

 

For example...Khayon's axe is a trophy taken from a slain SW, but perhaps this sort of thing is rarer among loyalists

 

Before the return of Guilliman it was general policy for all of the Imperium's forces to capture and refit enemy vessels as much as possible. The Mechanicus, Navy and Space Marines would do it regularly. However most chapters lack the facilities to actually do their own refits, once a vessel is captured it would have to be turned over to a forge world or navy shipyard for a refit that could take decades and the final ship could be sent anywhere, not just back to the chapter or navy formation that took it. The Space Wolves chapter is relatively rare in the capacity of its forges and shipyards and is capable of doing a great deal on its own, so capturing and re purposing its own vessels is entirely possible. Other chapters, such as the Ultramarines, have the shipyards to do the work but are also more likely to transfer the finished ships to other chapters who need them more.

 

Now that Guilliman is back he has put an end to recapturing ships and has ordered all enemy ships destroyed. Instead the Imperium and Mechanicus have started cranking out massive numbers of new ships, many based on Cawl's designs. However I would expect the Space Wolves would probably be among the rare forces to disregard that order and continue taking prizes.

 

For chaos of course captured ships are one of the only ways they get new vessels, new forged anything is relatively rare among the traitor legions, not non-existent, but rare. The planet killer itself was a captured derelict vessel.

[Jackalwolf]

True that's another factor to take into account. Only the Imperial palace is bigger than the fang so we have the best facilities of any chapter in the Imperium to maintain the fleet.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

The Aett was the first Legion stronghold to be almost entirely self sufficient

 

As the Great Crusade outgrew Terra and Luna's ability to replace Marines the Legion homeworld took over the work.

 

But for a while, the Aett of the Wolves was unique for its capabilities.

[Kasper_Hawser]

 

Don't all SM factions capture and refit vessels and items?

 

For example...Khayon's axe is a trophy taken from a slain SW, but perhaps this sort of thing is rarer among loyalists

 

Before the return of Guilliman it was general policy for all of the Imperium's forces to capture and refit enemy vessels as much as possible. The Mechanicus, Navy and Space Marines would do it regularly. However most chapters lack the facilities to actually do their own refits, once a vessel is captured it would have to be turned over to a forge world or navy shipyard for a refit that could take decades and the final ship could be sent anywhere, not just back to the chapter or navy formation that took it. The Space Wolves chapter is relatively rare in the capacity of its forges and shipyards and is capable of doing a great deal on its own, so capturing and re purposing its own vessels is entirely possible. Other chapters, such as the Ultramarines, have the shipyards to do the work but are also more likely to transfer the finished ships to other chapters who need them more.

 

Now that Guilliman is back he has put an end to recapturing ships and has ordered all enemy ships destroyed. Instead the Imperium and Mechanicus have started cranking out massive numbers of new ships, many based on Cawl's designs. However I would expect the Space Wolves would probably be among the rare forces to disregard that order and continue taking prizes.

 

For chaos of course captured ships are one of the only ways they get new vessels, new forged anything is relatively rare among the traitor legions, not non-existent, but rare. The planet killer itself was a captured derelict vessel.

 

 

I didn't know the Aett had its own shipbuilding facilities, I always thought it was just one huge fortress which could house, maintain and defend against fleet action, but not actually building. As for forges, again I know they produce a lot of their own arms and armour, but I thought for the big machines like Land Raiders, Rhinos and new Repulsors, it still has to come from a Forgeworld somewhere.

 

Oh well, one thing for certain, the Aett as fortress monastery goes seem to be held as higher standing compared to its equivalents, somehow being compared to the Imperial palace and Luna in terms of fortification.

 

Wrath of Magnus really did a number on the Aett though. However I expect with the new Primaris reinforcements, the Aett should be more better manned now. After all, a fortress is only as good as its defenders.