Kataphrons in the current meta

[Sawtooth]

I'm reactivating my Mechanicus army from cold storage soon. I'm just curious how well Kataphrons of either kind are doing these days. A lot of the Mechanicus lists I see seem to ignore them and go for MSU of Rangers and Vanguard to fill troops.

[Black Knight]

I mainly see a few Destroyers out and about with Plasma for a punch and Grav for hordes. I usually only see Breachers when people want a change, but they lost their deepstrike so they aren't great.

 

At the end of the day I think most people choose to load up on cheaper Rangers/Vanguard so that we can have more points for bots, etc.

 

I do like Plasma Destroyers so we can use the Stratagem for +1 to hit though.

[Reynolds]

Just my opinion:
4+/3+ and nothing else, along with 2w have hurt them this edition. It's their survivability in the field of -1AP weaponry(Primaris) that you see often in the left and right, that rend their 2w statlines down relatively quickly. Previously Plasma would have chipped off 1w per hit from them. This edition it can outright kill them in a single shot.
- Potential is there, unfortunately their survivability/firepower output VS Vanguard/Rangers is seriously sub-par. Not throwing the axe to the well, but the 8th... did a number on certain units. Kataphrons being one of 'em.

[Emicus]

#kataphrons-are-bots-too!

 

Why choose skitatrii when you can get real mech? Upgrade your servitors today with our STC grade tracked chassis. Kataphrons can be made in pew-pew and smashy-pew varieties.

Vox your local forgeworld today to hear about payment options.

 

Seriously though, their main benefit is being troops, saving you from building small and fiddly models instead. The skitatrii also doesn't come with enough weapons for what you really want whereas the Kataphrons come with more guns and fists than even an ork could strap to a chassis.

 

Plasma is great.

Play ryza and get greater.

Play big boy bots and make your foes supercritical.

 

Will it win a tournament? Nah

Will it impress the lads down the club? Yeah.

 

What more could anyone possibly want...(Except a matching hq option????)

[KhorneHunter57x]

4+/3+ and nothing else, along with 2w have hurt them this edition. It's their survivability in the field of -1AP weaponry(Primaris) that you see often in the left and right, that rend their 2w statlines down relatively quickly. Previously Plasma would have chipped off 1w per hit from them. This edition it can outright kill them in a single shot.

I don't think Kataphrons have 2W.

[Subtle Discord]

Correct. They have 3 Wounds.

[Black Knight]

They still get focused a lot unfortunately. They will not last long.

[brother_b]

They've either been shot off the board first turn (including my first outing with them of course), or done amazing work.

 

They helped take down some gnarley khorne dreadnought with slaughter cannon or something. They ended him. They made an amazing charge to contest an objective, they've put out decent dakka on other targets as well.

 

I only have 3 of them though, I usually forget to fire their phosphor guns, and they tend to get blasted early. Oh yeah, I run them Grav, because it's a good amount of shots and does work against things like Death Guard and other high save units.

 

I still love them though! Go ManTracks ^TM go!

[Tiger9gamer]

I play them a lot, probably 1 unit of each kind in my average heavy gun 2,000 point list, and I have to say I like them. The destroyers with plasma guns put out a ridiculous number of shots for plasma, and I usually use that to act as a finisher when my other anti-tank guns don't kill things all the way. I play lucius so no uber-plasma, but a dominus is usually enough to make sure they don't die horribly to overcharge because of re-rolling 1's. plus, they can target almost anything and do well. Don't last to long though, but in my experiences opponents usually focus more on my onagers or my knight before they kill the servitors.

 

Breachers... okay so funny story about them. Almost every game I play with these guys, the opponent focus fires them to kill them off first. doesn't matter a knight is right next to them and also in range of that lascannon, doesn't matter if my onagers just blasted a hole through a leman russ, every opponent I play against decides "F those things" when I say they do more damage to vehicles than other things. So to me, I almost never get to play them. sucks in terms of first blood, but hey that leaves all my big guns alive. Other than that they provide sparce anti-tank shots for stuff that hits and wounds, and I only had one game where they crippled a predator outright.

[Kilofix]

Ryza Plasma Kats within some sort of Fortification works out ok.

[synthaside]

I have had some interest use out of breachers ... They actually hold objectives really well they aren't going to set the world on fire and could maybe be a bit cheaper but when used with the acquisition at any cost stratagem they can achieve a 1 up save in cover ...

 

I think our arc weaponry was rushed we got the bad version of eldar haywire and strength 6 just isn't good enough to actually hurt vehicle targets , don't get me started on the torsion cannon variant that needs to vanish .. 1 shot on a bs 4 unit for a + 40 point model just no.

[Stray]

Given the price of Kataphrons vs plain old Skitarii, the access that Plasma wielding Vanguard have to the specialist Skitarii Stratagems (+2's to hit? Thank you very much!) The larger target painted on them in terms of priority, the way 8th edition can often favour volume of shooting, etc etc...

 

A picture emerges as to why Kataphrons don't feature so heavily in the 'meta'. They're in no way bad units, it's just you can do what they do in a far more point efficient manner.

 

I think it's also often forgotten that Plasma itself is a middle ground weapon that's very useful in TAC lists, but remains less useful than the more specialised options. For anti tank work as an example, Plasma can do the job certainly, but not as well as a couple of neutron lasers would. Given that Kats are a unit somewhat specialised for taking a weapon that is itself not highly specialised and that you already have very easy access to via your most basic troop types...

[Kilofix]

Given the price of Kataphrons vs plain old Skitarii, the access that Plasma wielding Vanguard have to the specialist Skitarii Stratagems (+2's to hit? Thank you very much!) The larger target painted on them in terms of priority, the way 8th edition can often favour volume of shooting, etc etc...

 

A picture emerges as to why Kataphrons don't feature so heavily in the 'meta'. They're in no way bad units, it's just you can do what they do in a far more point efficient manner.

 

I think it's also often forgotten that Plasma itself is a middle ground weapon that's very useful in TAC lists, but remains less useful than the more specialised options. For anti tank work as an example, Plasma can do the job certainly, but not as well as a couple of neutron lasers would. Given that Kats are a unit somewhat specialised for taking a weapon that is itself not highly specialised and that you already have very easy access to via your most basic troop types...

The thing is that the Ryza Strat makes a bigger difference when you use it on a unit that’s firing 12 x D6 Plasma shots as opposed to 6 shots from Skitarii. That said sure, their ballistic skill does stink.

[Stray]

You do have to hit with them first, yeah. If you're up against one of the many, many meta lists which are rocking a negative modifier to hit, that 4+ BS starts to hurt all the more...

 

Sure, they can put out a lot of Plasma shots, and you're bound to do some damage. But think about it, running them as Ryza is akin to saying to someone 'Hi, I'm preparing to punch you with my left hand - could you stand still a moment?' - it's very, very obvious what's coming, and what to do about it. And they're not that tough considering their cost.

 

Again, I'm not saying they are bad units. But the OP's question was how they were placed in the current 40K meta - and honestly, they don't really factor highly :/ I like them myself, they're fun units, and they have a great aesthetic! But we aren't seeing them in any top table lists sadly.

 

I think given the question, I feel it's better to try and understand why that is, rather than try and make them something they're currently not. Mathematically, Plasma on them actually doesn't work as well as the Grav option anyway in the majority of cases, especially given their targets of choice.

 

For an extra 5 points a model, you could take the very viable Dragoons, which coupled with something like the Forge World independent Conqueror Protocol strat, start to do some very, very silly damage output on a much tankier platform. (It's a shame the model is so expensive in terms of £££ $$$).

[LT_CLAWS]

I run 2 squads of 3 (2 Grav and 1 Plasma) in a 2000pt list and they are a nice mobile gun platform used as back up to some vanguard as they advance. Run them with a techpriest near by and, boom, versatility.

[synthaside]

I would love to take mine, in fact, I'd love to take a vehicle only ad mech army ... it fights my headcanon but they are just legitimately bad in almost every matchup , everyone I'm playing is rocking -'s to hit  i'd actually give up their ability to move and fire heavy weapons  with no penalty just to have them actually be able to shoot at normal 3+ BS 

 

I occasionally take them for a run for shoots and giggles but I'd rather take almost anything else in our codex over the 3 servitor options we have.

Not you Datasmith... NEVER YOU.....! 

#putting off assembling my Terrax .... its " soaking "... needs 24 hours ;-) Im not afraid of its large resin peices ... no no no

[Charlo]

Purely due to models available, I usually run 3 Arc Breachers and 3 Plasma/ Flamer Destroyers.

 

The Plasma always end up killing themselves more than the opponent does with some overcharge Bravado, however they do NICE damage, especially if you run Kastelans and use Elimination Volley, which stops overheating!

 

Breachers I find are actually solid workhorses - I'd like to see how a large block performs! The 3+ T5 3W profile with a SOLD weapon in the Heavy Arc Rifle (S6 -2AP d3D - d6 against VEHICLES) and the Arc/ Hydraulic claws at least hurt stuff a bit easier than most of our CC weapons. With Shroudpsalm they are Custodes level tough (up to AP-3). Plus they have a massive footprint and are a lot of tough wounds to chew through. Battleshock could be an issue though.

 

All vehicles will learn to fear them though, even just one breacher getting through is the same damage as a Lascannon.

[Emicus]

I'm tempted to run like.. 12-15 of them as a "noob friendly" army. Melee ones with arc rifles and claws making up the bulk. Twice the shots beats higher strength.Units of 6 maybe?

 

And 1-2 min squads of Plasma and flamer; flamer cause I like the minimal melee deterrent they create.

Run it all as Ryza. Boosts the melee bots with reroll 1s to wound and boosts the plasma with the stratagem.

[synthaside]

So I actually did this last night, games have gotten very competitive at my local club and I knew I was playing Someone who is experienced less so i felt an all kataphrons more fluffy army
at 1750 would be a chuckle.

Tpd
TPE

3 breachers arc
3 breacher torsion
3 plasma destroyers

2 lascannon Bali
3 dragoons
2x2 dakka bots
1 neutron laser
1 erad beamer

I even ran as Agrippina .

Pros
Quick to play
All but immune to bolter fire T5 and 3 wounds makes people fire like they are shooting at a rhino 
Repairs and stratagem for bringing them back
Hilarious to give a unit that's on an objective in cover a 1 up cover save  and a 5+ inv
Combat  , surprsingly punchy in combat especially with the plus 1 attack from Aquisition .. they punched up some soften Primaris nicely.

Cons
Range ... turn 1 they all were out of range of any of my opponent's good stuff  and advancing them is a poor trade off
Bad bs even with re-rolls  .... i'd trade for 3+ and taking -1 if they move option any day
By god's they feel slow , I know its only 1 inch * hur hur *  but were not a mobile army anyway
Plasma overcharge even with re-rolls your firing d6 shots ...

[Stray]

I think that's a really great analysis Synth - very balanced and accurate. Thank you.

[Tiger9gamer]

okay, so going off my previous post about people shooting the kataphron breachers first, I kinda found out why. since I run both types of servitors because why not, I guess most opponents think the breachers are the plasma toting destroyers. now, i'm not a jerk, and I tell most opponents what stuff does before / as we deploy so they know what the units do. And, I will tell people what a unit does if they ask. no one does ask which ones are which when it happens, so... i dunno.

 

maybe knowledge really IS power....

[Xisor]

I've ground that too, Tiger. I don't hide it from my opponents, I openly talk about arc vs plasma differences...

 

And somehow my three hornet-painted breaches attract *huge* amounts of fire.

 

Same with my lone Onager - somehow people fear that Eradication beamer. (Not helped, I suppose, that it pretty much one-shotted a wraithfighter, thanks Skitarii strategems!)

 

But I do fancy the idea of doing a 6/3/3 arc/plasma/grav Battalion now. It feels *very* cool, in principle, even if hopelessly limited.

 

Lucius teleporting them could be fun?

[Tiger9gamer]

I've ground that too, Tiger. I don't hide it from my opponents, I openly talk about arc vs plasma differences...

 

And somehow my three hornet-painted breaches attract *huge* amounts of fire.

 

Same with my lone Onager - somehow people fear that Eradication beamer. (Not helped, I suppose, that it pretty much one-shotted a wraithfighter, thanks Skitarii strategems!)

 

But I do fancy the idea of doing a 6/3/3 arc/plasma/grav Battalion now. It feels *very* cool, in principle, even if hopelessly limited.

 

Lucius teleporting them could be fun?

 

I think whenever we field both types of servitors or one of something we're doing a secret psy-ops on our opponent. it's fun!

 

 

and lucius teleporting them in could be fun, but the vast majority of our firepower is long ish range on our guys so it would only help in terms of protecting them turn one. outside of deepstriking grav cannons into position turn 1 or two it would mainly just protect the heavier firepower of our tread heads.

[Prot]

I’m trying to remember if they are infantry? I have a meta with a fair amount of DE and I play DW so there’s some real poison out there.

 

I used to proxy different loadouts of these guys a lot. I feel like their mileage is capped. Specifically i find anything over one squad is hurting me elsewhere.

 

For background though I should say we favour Maelstrom type missions. Stand and shoot doesn’t work here. And if it did Astra will roll me every day.

 

I wrote off the plasma variant. It’s too much work getting the damage output and micromanaging the exploding overcharging is a little too harsh in my opinion. I do play Mars though so one Grav squad and one Deathbot squad often suck up my command points to decent effect v

[Black Knight]

They are Infantry.