Kataphrons in the current meta

[Memento Of Prospero]

The issue is not durability, because nothing is durable in the current game state. The issue they have is that they have a terrible damage output no matter how you slice it. Low rates of fire on 4s isn't going to get anything worthwhile done. The only stratagem that improves them requires a unit that is far superior to work, so they are stuck competing for play.

[Prot]

And at that I find I have to plop Cawl between those squads to get them to work and that becomes a very expensive core and Cawl literally does very little else than empower those units. So here we hit that glass ceiling I talked about... how many points do you want to put into these guys to get real performance out of them?

[Xisor]

If I recall, you can get a trio of arc^2 breaches for about 120?

 

If you buy nine squads of them...

 

And, say, Cawl and three TPDs, that takes you to 1700pts? 13CPs too.

 

Throw in some Dragoons for mobility, and maybe a bit of variance.

 

But you see where I'm going? Is there any viability of putting almost all the points into them? It doesn't cross some sort of improbable barrier, somehow?

[Are Verlo]

They have one redeeming quality: 12 of them or 11+ dominus can fit in a Termite. im not sure what unit size is optimal. I´m considering 4 units of 3 or 3+4+4+dominus. But then again 11 strong arriving at an objective, popping the "at any cost" strtagem and perhaps even shroudpsalm could be fun.

 

If I only had the extra time and ££

[synthaside]

Sadly they are forbidden from entering a termite ... .... it's on the rules of the terrax datasheet, They just look super cool ... while missing in buckets and slowly trundling around

Any <forgeword > Infantry unit “excluding kataphrons" May enter a Terrax ... otherwise I could see me putting a 9 man torsion cannon unit with a TPE with the  re-roll misses in combat relic  “ Cawl  and inquisitor greyfax for morale , denies and the remove overwatch stratagem .

[Are Verlo]

:-(

Too bad. Would they be playable if the total cost (inc. wargear) was 35 or 30?

[synthaside]

hrmmmm

30 points for kataphron with Arc ... 35 for one with a torsion cannon ..... Yes i would play them more they still might not be competative thats 90 points for a unit of 3 ... or 105 with torision cannons and im still wincing that Bs 4 on whats literally supposed to be a tank is a world of -'s to hit .. where even in Open play games people are hard to hit

I'd maybe play a them at the current points cost if the stratagem for use with Kastelan Robots worked on them rather than just Destroyers ...
or they were Bs 3+  suffering move and fire penalties but right now they worse terminators ... that take up more board space.


 

[DanPesci]

The two main killers for me (as already mentioned alot) are the BS4 and the overheat wiping a 3 wound model (which makes me really reluctant to take plasma destroyers).

 

I still tend to run a squad of 4-6 breachers with arc/claw, and sit them on a home objective. Mainly as i have the models bought and painted...Their cannons help finish off vehicles or infantry...but dont do too much else. Really they are just a blob of T5, 3W, 3+ (hopefully in cover) campers, with a large footrpint to help prevent deepstrike.

 

 

Ideas for improvement

- I dont think they should be BS3 - they are a servitor, however their guns need tweaked

- Torsion Cannon needs double shots

- Plasma Cannon needs to cause 1 mortal wound not wipe the model when you overcharge an roll 1s.

- Arc Rifle (and all arc weapons in general), need a boost. D6 damage vs vehicles is ok but not when wounding on 5s all the time.

Maybe +1 to wound against vehicles?

Or wounds of 6 against vehicles cause additional damage? This would bring arc weapons back to them being decent i feel.

- Grav Cannon, actually dont mind, but 4+ save model is not great to take them on.

[synthaside]

I agree with the point thatbthey are servitors but look at all that targeting gibbinz. .. why are they hitting like a gaurdsman. Maybe I'd take them of they said ... This unit always hits on a 5 but right now bs 4+ units games down my club are often hitting on 6's .

 

For the purpose of buffing weapons on the arc weapons either more shots or the reverse of poison, eg wounds all vehicles on a 4+ as payment thiugh drop its strength to 5 .

 

Torsion cannons I'd say go for d3 shots rather than 2 and id be happy to take them 1 shot is pretty punishing for the cost ..

 

I Agree on the plasma .. it's a mini tank .. that's immune to pain maybe if you wanted to make it even tougher say it's 2 mortal wounds .

[Feral_80]

Well they need all those targeting stuff because they are lobotomised, besides being essentially dead people.

I think BS 4+ is ok, but they could ignore modifiers and get a points discount.

 

Right now they are only usable if they start behind los-blocking terrain. And, the only weapons that make sense are just grav and arc (barely). Torsion is a joke, plasma is just too risky and if used with Cawl he even actually increases their chance to blow up.

[Ishagu]

I think they are pretty good. Squad of 5 with Grav Cannons can do work and has range, provided you can keep them hidden if not going first or facing a threat to them. Play smart!

[brother_b]

I like Grav, I wouldn't be against fielding, say, 6 kataphrons with Grav. Or hell, a full sized unit. I don't have the $ or models for it now, but if I did...

 

Grav has enough shots to affect hordes, and a high enough strength to wound most "horde" armies (nids, guard, ork boys) easily.

 

Against high save units they shine, especially anything with a FNP roll. Those extra points of damage for high save, high tough infantry models is really important.

 

My next troop choices will be Vanguard, and maybe another ranger squad. They're cheap, effective, and offer me more board coverage.

[Xisor]

Within 6" of a techpriest, gain the "Skitarii" keyword?

 

Thus allowing them access to protocols, and the +1 to hit?

 

(Albeit without data tether, and at 'light' CP cost.)

[Heliomanes]

Way too expensive for what they do, unfortunately. One of the 5 man units that are mentioned in this thread cost close to 3 kastelan robots or a knight gallant. Reduce the points drastically, then we'll talk. The statlines themselves are mostly ok, though I wish you could make a costed "Archmagos" upgrade for the Dominus to provide rerolls to hit, like Cawl, for other Forges than Mars. With the added bonuses from the different forgeworlds, the Kataphrons could become more varied and interesting.