BLACK BLΠFLY Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 I totally am in line with what Ishagu has stated. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349930-astartes-really-do-suck-unfortunately/page/13/#findComment-5162160 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 Hell, apply Tactics to vehicles. I realize that's not a straight port for all Chapters, but everyone else gets them. Chaos and guard ones don't, Guard just get different tactics to make up for it. Saim Hain are in an even worse spot than (non Black Templar) Chapter tactics. Biel Tan tactics apply to almost nothing, Iyanden gets one trait for units and another for stuff with damage tables. Kabal of the Flayed Skull trait basically only effects vehicles, Poisoned Tongue and 2 out of three wych cults and haemonculi covens might as well not apply to vehicles. Its only really :cuss like Alaitoc that make Chapter Tactics look so unfair. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349930-astartes-really-do-suck-unfortunately/page/13/#findComment-5162174 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallas Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 You guys are seriously on drugs if you think the Marine stat line is going to be totally revamped, or wargear reconsidered. It is not going to happen. You are setting yourself up for massive disappointment. I can only speak for myself but I don't expect any changes to Marines to make them actually viable. But there are numerous things that should be done to bring them up. I have no doubt that GW is going to go half-arsed on the CA/FAQ changes and Marines are going to get maybe a point or two reductions here and there, there'll be no major rules reworks and there definitely won't be any stat adjustments. That doesn't mean that we should just roll over and die. Marines (including Primaris) absolutely need some major revamps to become properly competitive and lore appropriate; but that won't happen. So maybe you could jump off of your high horse for a little bit? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349930-astartes-really-do-suck-unfortunately/page/13/#findComment-5162182 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallas Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 Hell, apply Tactics to vehicles. I realize that's not a straight port for all Chapters, but everyone else gets them. Chaos and guard ones don't, Guard just get different tactics to make up for it. Saim Hain are in an even worse spot than (non Black Templar) Chapter tactics. Biel Tan tactics apply to almost nothing, Iyanden gets one trait for units and another for stuff with damage tables. Kabal of the Flayed Skull trait basically only effects vehicles, Poisoned Tongue and 2 out of three wych cults and haemonculi covens might as well not apply to vehicles. Its only really like Alaitoc that make Chapter Tactics look so unfair. Craftworld Eldar aren't the best examples, although pretty much every non-Marine Codex gives their Chapter Tactics to everything, I think the best examples of Chapter Tactics applying to all models is Guard: it's not the same rules for infantry and vehicles (which is good, because they generally want different things); their rules aren't overall ball-busting, just nice bonuses to have; and they're pretty thematic without going over the top in any particular direction. Honestly, if everyone had Guard-level Chapter Tactics, I'd be happy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349930-astartes-really-do-suck-unfortunately/page/13/#findComment-5162184 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCE1981 Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 I am with Kallas here, most of these corrections putting their heads together to come up with solutions. I seriously doubt anyone really believes GW will listen to their audience. Wargear isn’t even being costed the same across codices. Look at the Chainfist, loyalists pay 22pts for them, Chaos pays 14 pts for them GW has had plenty of opportunity to fix that and hasn’t yet. I expect that the changes in the upcomming FAQ and Chapter Approved will go sideways to expectations. Without anything concrete to go off of I expect it to be as lazy as all the Marine codices have been. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349930-astartes-really-do-suck-unfortunately/page/13/#findComment-5162187 Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x19 Parabellum Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 You guys are seriously on drugs if you think the Marine stat line is going to be totally revamped, or wargear reconsidered. It is not going to happen. You are setting yourself up for massive disappointment. I can only speak for myself but I don't expect any changes to Marines to make them actually viable. But there are numerous things that should be done to bring them up. I have no doubt that GW is going to go half-arsed on the CA/FAQ changes and Marines are going to get maybe a point or two reductions here and there, there'll be no major rules reworks and there definitely won't be any stat adjustments. That doesn't mean that we should just roll over and die. Marines (including Primaris) absolutely need some major revamps to become properly competitive and lore appropriate; but that won't happen. So maybe you could jump off of your high horse for a little bit? Why don't you stop policing how I express myself on the forum? I'm not on a high horse. There are plenty of people with unrealistic expectations of what the forthcoming Chapter Approved is going to do for Astartes. If the shoe fits, wear it. That's why I predicated my (admittedly dramatic) statement, with "...if you think the Marine statline..." If. I wasn't speaking to you or anyone else specifically. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349930-astartes-really-do-suck-unfortunately/page/13/#findComment-5162189 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 There is going to be a lot of upset people that is all I'm saying . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349930-astartes-really-do-suck-unfortunately/page/13/#findComment-5162216 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 There is going to be a lot of upset people that is all I'm saying . Why? Drop some sick beat man. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349930-astartes-really-do-suck-unfortunately/page/13/#findComment-5162219 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 I thought we were all pretty upset already? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349930-astartes-really-do-suck-unfortunately/page/13/#findComment-5162229 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 I thought we were all pretty upset already? Upseter! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349930-astartes-really-do-suck-unfortunately/page/13/#findComment-5162240 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 I thought we were all pretty upset already? Upseter! The Upsetest! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349930-astartes-really-do-suck-unfortunately/page/13/#findComment-5162259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x19 Parabellum Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 I'm definitely going to change my stock profile and start investing in QQ tears. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349930-astartes-really-do-suck-unfortunately/page/13/#findComment-5162312 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 GW isn’t going to deep 6 overhaul SM to fulfill your every adolscent wishlist. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349930-astartes-really-do-suck-unfortunately/page/13/#findComment-5162316 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsHammer Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 GW isn’t going to deep 6 overhaul SM to fulfill your every adolscent wishlist. While true, I do hope they take some inspiration from the feedback I send them for their next proper update as it stand Marines are barely better than Scions for a chunk more points which doesn't fit the lore or points costs we see. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349930-astartes-really-do-suck-unfortunately/page/13/#findComment-5162323 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 Marines don't feel tough enough on the table? Forget it. There are Primaris and Custodes now, the stats won't changed because it will ripple into other units, etc etc That's pretty much it unfortunately. It sucks but I fully believe that's GWs stance on things and just powers through with it until the Primaris line is better established and more people start switching over. I do agree with this. BUT the problem is they've tried point reductions... twice. I sold my first Primaris army the very day (no joke... ebay sale) that GW lowered the costs quite a bit on Primaris. It really didn't work. We know they want to sell more Primaris. The exact same thing happened with AdMech. They lowered costs quite a bit for a lot of dysfunctional junk. It still doesn't work, and you still never see it at top tables. Back to square one: Reducing costs didn't change much. But changing mechanics in space marine units has a definite ripple effect. At some point we have to rip off the band aid and just make those mechanical changes. Though I agree the impact would hit a lot of lists differently, from Chaos to Space Wolves to Custodes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349930-astartes-really-do-suck-unfortunately/page/13/#findComment-5162326 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 People want a mono faction monster build - not gonna happen . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349930-astartes-really-do-suck-unfortunately/page/13/#findComment-5162329 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsHammer Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 People want a mono faction monster build - not gonna happen . Not everyone wants a "monster" of a codex, but we do want a codex that has roughly equal chance of winning in a monobuild as other do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349930-astartes-really-do-suck-unfortunately/page/13/#findComment-5162332 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 Since this topic is about, by its title, how poor the rules are for the Adeptus Astartes, there's no point in belaboring it any further. Anyone desiring to participate in constructive discussion about how the Adeptus Astartes codices might be "fixed" in order to be balanced with the other codices is invited to participate in this other discussion (which I can see that some of you are already involved in). There's no point in having two parallel discussions on the same subject. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349930-astartes-really-do-suck-unfortunately/page/13/#findComment-5162387 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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