Orks can shoot!

[Kaldoth]

READ EM AN WEEP, BOYZ! DAKKA IS BACK ON DA MENU!

 

Also, the new trike boss looks sick.

 

-Kal

[toaae]

I am happy.  Now, all our shooty stuff (other than the artillery) needs points break. But Dakka!Dakka!Dakka is a great rule.

[FlamingDeth]

Reposting what I put on the Waaagh:

 

AHA! They did a thing correctly! Biker boss conversions are not invalidated, shooting modification is at least above the minimum I expected, so yay. I don't expect the extra hit rolls to amount to anything (yay! A 1/36 chance for an extra hit!) but it's still better than I thought it would be.

 

However, unless there's looted wagons, cyborks, and 'ardboyz back in it the statement of "best codex ever" is going to be massive hyperbole.

[Sawtooth]

I'm curious how good DakkaDakkaDakka is from a math hammer perspective for various units. I'm sure the number crunchers are already taking a look.

[Warhead01]

I'm curious how good DakkaDakkaDakka is from a math hammer perspective for various units. I'm sure the number crunchers are already taking a look.

I don't think it's super from a math hammer pov. 

It'll just be better for some units than others. 

 

 

[Panzer]

In the end it won't matter all that much. It just means that Orks can now advance&shoot with assault weapons and move&shoot with heavy weapons even against armies/units with to-hit penalties. Or shoot against armies/units who stack to-hit penalties. It still won't turn them into a shooty army. The additional shots on 6s is pretty pointless even considering that you'd have to roll two 6s in a row to get an additional hit most of the time.

[Warhead01]

Yep.
It's a helpful rule but it also encourages Orks to keep moving. 
Meanwhile those units that are -1 or more to hit don't completely get pownd by Orks. I see it as a scale. More models to less models. If we could just punish them the games would be too one sided too quickly.. We're just going to wreck them up in close combat anyway.  

Right after we dump a ton of led on them. 

[Warsmith Uveron]

I'm curious how good DakkaDakkaDakka is from a math hammer perspective for various units. I'm sure the number crunchers are already taking a look.

 

Tank busters get the best benefit at the moment. With the re-roll against some targets they will get the extra shot more often. 

[Warhead01]

 

I'm curious how good DakkaDakkaDakka is from a math hammer perspective for various units. I'm sure the number crunchers are already taking a look.

 

Tank busters get the best benefit at the moment. With the re-roll against some targets they will get the extra shot more often. 

 

I was thinking flash gits get the most out of it. Hitting on 4+ with ammo runt rerolls and their special show off rule., and maybe buffed by Kappin. Granted it's a lot of points to be sooooo shooty.  KMK's are going to be frightening as well. 

 

It's a bit of a pipe dream but how  about a full unit of War Bikers? Mine don't seem to live long enough these days but that's a lot of dakka.

[Guest Triszin]

so this has a chance to double shoot the gargnaught weapons?

 

DAKAA

[Warsmith Uveron]

The issue with Flash Gits, is that they will get less extra shots via Dakka Dakka as they do not get to re-roll 4's. 

That is not to say they dont get better with the rule. But the Tank Busters get more Re-Rolls and thus a greater chance of 6's. 

 

But it depends what other ability's we can layer on. 

 

 

 

[Guest Triszin]

 

The issue with Flash Gits, is that they will get less extra shots via Dakka Dakka as they do not get to re-roll 4's. 

That is not to say they dont get better with the rule. But the Tank Busters get more Re-Rolls and thus a greater chance of 6's. 

 

But it depends what other ability's we can layer on. 

 

 

 

 

ya, strats will make orks sing.

 

they probably get a double shoot strat for a unit.

[Warsmith Uveron]

 

ya, strats will make orks sing.

 

they probably get a double shoot strat for a unit.

 

 

That and if the Mek Shop works as expected... it will be a whole extra layer of crazy. 

[Guest Triszin]

 

 

ya, strats will make orks sing.

 

they probably get a double shoot strat for a unit.

 

 

That and if the Mek Shop works as expected... it will be a whole extra layer of crazy. 

 

I am legit planning a Ork army.

 

so is Mekshop, a upgrade as you go mechanic on the table, or is it like the Wolfguard access to basically any marine equipment?

[Warsmith Uveron]

 

 

so is Mekshop, a upgrade as you go mechanic on the table, or is it like the Wolfguard access to basically any marine equipment?

 

 

Based on the 'leaks' its a fortification, that will buff some units. (Max number of shots on shot random weapons)

[Guest Triszin]

 

 

 

so is Mekshop, a upgrade as you go mechanic on the table, or is it like the Wolfguard access to basically any marine equipment?

 

 

Based on the 'leaks' its a fortification, that will buff some units. (Max number of shots on shot random weapons)

 

so it's like dawn of war 3 orks.

 

(when you find rubble the squad can "mek up") either add armor, or better guns or both if it gets to two of em.

 

really interested to see how this works.

 

maybe "looted" might be a mechanic where a Mek ork can on a roll of a 6 Loot a destroyed enmy vehicle giving it 2 wounds and grots operate it?

 

would be awesome

[FlamingDeth]

In the end it won't matter all that much. It just means that Orks can now advance&shoot with assault weapons and move&shoot with heavy weapons even against armies/units with to-hit penalties. Or shoot against armies/units who stack to-hit penalties. It still won't turn them into a shooty army. The additional shots on 6s is pretty pointless even considering that you'd have to roll two 6s in a row to get an additional hit most of the time.

I dunno. As is with the index list orks have nearly three times as many ranged weapons as melee weapons. It's just that previously a -1 to hit cut their shooting by 50% and a -2 negated it entirely. Now, as compared to more traditional shooting armies like marines, a -1 still cuts Ork shooting by 50%, and the marine shooting by about 25%. A -2 cuts marine shooting by 50%, and Ork shooting by...still 50%. It gets more optimistic from there as the negative modifiers pile on. It makes orks especially better on the move once any mdofiers are in play.

 

Anyways I guess the point is that now orks can potentially be played as a primarily shooting army again, even if that should never be all they bring.

[Kaldoth]

To add onto what CardinalVirtue said, it also makes Orks unique in the way that (and correct me if I'm wrong) we are the only army that will have a large majority of shooting units that can guarantee hits against modifiers that should negate their shooting entirely. I've always been of the opinion that Orks should not be a great ranged army. A lot of people bring up the old 2 ed codex as a reason why we should be bumped to 4+ BS minimum because "back in the day Orks were a 2+ army." Well, back then the game was still in its first true edition of what Warhammer turned into as opposed to the skirmish style of Rogue Trader and the various armies weren't as fleshed out in lore as they are now. I like the fact that most Orks would rather get stuck in and rip some 'umie gits in half than sit back and shoot at them. So, while this new rule isn't going to make us a shooting powerhouse, it does let us shoot far better than what we could before, and its fluffy. I would take a fluffy buff that fits my army and is "okay" over a great buff that doesn't any day of the week.

 

In addition to that, this rule actually makes shoota boyz worth taking in my opinion. 60 shots on a mobile firebase that doesn't care about the -1 for moving and shooting, and in fact gets extra shots for landing hits? Yes please. Shoota boyz still have a lot of teef in close combat. I think mobs of 30 are going to make great objective sitters with this new rule, especially if backed by a trukk or a wagon.

[nanosquid]

Oh yeeeesss. I do hope the leaked Bad Moons trait ends up being true, because shoota boys are going to be super fun again...

[FlamingDeth]

Kaldoth, on the other hand, maybe some people DO want orks to be able to be a shooting power house, just a different kind than usual. That's why I'm hoping that the clan traits are just a little different than previewed so that multiple playstyles are usable.

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

So I take it this will be a faction special rule like ATSKNF, as opposed to faction tactics like Red Thirst or Grim Resolve.

[Brother Casman]

Yep, this has been changed from a stratagem to a special rule, according to the article.

[Beams]

In 10,000 trials, a full unit of 30 shoota boys will average and median 3 extra hits with their shootas.

 

There's approx. A 14.5% chance that you get 1 or less, and about a 12.5% chance that you get more than five, so it is a reasonable guess of 2-4 extra per squad.

 

Hitting on 5's, your still looking at mostly 21-26 hits as a reasonable variance, with max of 41 occuring 4 out of 10,000 trials, and a low of 9 occuring once, and 10 seven times.

 

A -1 or more to hit will drop you sharply to 10-12 hits, with 1 hit occuring once per 10,000, but 2 hits occuring 11 times, and a whopping 26 occuring 5 times.

 

So, uh, don't advance unless you can charge.

 

The obvious idea is that more dakka generates more dakka, but anything with any kind of rerolls or positive modifiers to hit will make it way better, since the additional hits generate still only have a 33% chance to hit normally, and a single shot rocket has a very low chance to prock a second hit and then hit with that.

 

As a side note, if BloodAxes get the rumored melee version of this trait, a BloodAxes boy bomb is going to murder... With a Warbanner to add a +1 to hit (only exploding on 6s though), a Choppa squad is looking at somewhere between 95 and 141 hits when at full strength with the median being 117. Nothing will survive, so my thought is if that's the case, then the Ork dejour will be trukks/wagons with a support wagon loaded with characters.

Throw in Ghaz, and they get absurd. The range goes from 119 to 171. It gets really expensive in support characters, especially if you decide to throw in a weird boy for warpath (141-200 hits), but it'll nuke everything it hits.

 

And since you could potentially fit multiple squads near the buffers, the bloodaxe green tide would be insane, but unless there's some other modifiers to shooting or reduced cost to gun heavy models, it looks like melee iz fer Orkz.

[Code 187]

Got a unit of 30 shootas that will like this. They take to the field regardless and probably average only 2-3 kills a turn but I don't mind. They claimed a Marine Captain in their last game and in the process prevented the win. Dakka dakka