Dealing with invulnerable saves

[Tommytheone]

Hello Guys and Gals,

 

As some of you may know, I started playing WH40K about half a year ago after a long break. Since then I have played quite a few battles with the First Legion and more recently with my Tyranids  (including a first edition Zoanthrope :) ). Both armies have different synergies but are equally fun to play. 

 

However, I have noticed that my Dark angels tend to have a very hard time dealing with invulnerable save, the 4++ and 3++ kind that are just everywhere now. And my librarian's smite are the hellfire shell stratagem is just not enough to deal with a unit of 6 wraith or 5 custodes. On the hand, the NIds smites, because i have more psykers (typically 2 neurothropes and 1 hyve tyrant), and because the entire army moves forwards, they are a lot more effective a dishing out mortal wounds.

 

So I was thinking or running a vanilla jumppack librarian for the Null Zone spell, either as an auxiliary detachment or as a supreme command with two smash captains. I know this is far from fluffy so if you have alternative solution I'm all ears! In any case, do any of you guys have the same problems? did you also try the jumppack librarian? 

 

Cheers,

Tommy

[Basteala]

Weight of Plasma Fire. Hellblasters are great for that. If you're firing between 10 and 20 shots of S8, 2-3 damage weapons, even if they make half to two thirds of their invuln saves, what's left will put a lot of hurt on something.

 

Stuff like that is also why I'm partial to the Leviathan Dread. 20 2 damage shots.

[domsto]

I can recommend Deathwing Knights

With s8 ap -2 and 3dmage they can kill Custodes or Wraiths pretty good in CC

Combined with the warlord Trait Fury of the Lion you will hit with S10. So you wound those nasty Golden boys on 2+^^

[Kasper_Hawser]

If you can't get through the invuln saves, you can try neuter their combat effectiveness via your other Interromancy powers such as Aversion (-1 to all hits), or Mind Worm (a mortal wound plus unit must hit last) or Mind Wipe (one model debuff). Not the best solution, but it's a roundabout way to dealing with deathstars by minimising their damage. And then fall back and plasma their behinds off.

 

Also Dark Talon's one use Statsis Bomb as well as the Rift Cannon can also give mortal wounds, though the Rift cannon as to wound first. Hope this helps.

[Hantheman]

Assualt cannons and autocannons are great. So talonmaster, sammy on sableclaw, razorbacks stuff like that. 

[SpaceJS]

I use a libby with a jump pack to cast aversion and mind wipe on the units that deserve it so I can kill them at my leisure or just ignore them. Works really well. He also has a plasma pistol and a force sword so he can kill stuff as well when needed.

[Knight Angels]

I can recommend Deathwing Knights

With s8 ap -2 and 3dmage they can kill Custodes or Wraiths pretty good in CC

Combined with the warlord Trait Fury of the Lion you will hit with S10. So you wound those nasty Golden boys on 2+^^

 

You are wrong sir! The +1 is applied after x2.... so only s9 with the stratagem

[CCE1981]

 

 

I can recommend Deathwing Knights

With s8 ap -2 and 3dmage they can kill Custodes or Wraiths pretty good in CC

Combined with the warlord Trait Fury of the Lion you will hit with S10. So you wound those nasty Golden boys on 2+^^

You are wrong sir! The +1 is applied after x2.... so only s9 with the stratagem

Fury of the Lion adds to the Strength Characteristic, meaning that indeed they would hit at strength 10.

 

Check out the “Designer’s Commentary” FAQ, for the detailed explanatiin.

[Isual]

 

I can recommend Deathwing Knights

With s8 ap -2 and 3dmage they can kill Custodes or Wraiths pretty good in CC

Combined with the warlord Trait Fury of the Lion you will hit with S10. So you wound those nasty Golden boys on 2+^^

 

You are wrong sir! The +1 is applied after x2.... so only s9 with the stratagem

 

 

In 7th edition you would be right, but in 8th this doesn`t apply anymore.

 

 

 

Q: If a rule modifies a model’s Strength characteristic, and that model is equipped with a melee weapon that also has a modifier (e.g. ‘x2’), could you explain the order in which the modifiers are applied to the characteristics and the weapon’s Strength?

A: First you must determine the model’s current Strength characteristic. To do so apply all modifiers to it that multiply or divide the value, then apply any that add or subtract to it. Having done this, you then modify this value as described by the weapon’s Strength characteristic.

 

 

They even turned it around for the base characteristics.

[robofish7591]

I know this is easier said than done, but assault cannons, heavy bolters, auto cannons... basically anything that puts out a lot of fire with -1 AP.  By using -1 AP weapons with weight of fire you won't have "wasted" AP shooting at invuln saves, and eventually if you throw enough lead at something some of those shots are going to get through.

 

Stuff like hellblasters with weapons of the dark age are good too.  Not every shot will go through, but the ones that do will really hurt.

[Berzul]

Overwhelming firepower. Its the best cure for what ails you

[Tommytheone]

Hi guys, 

Thanks for all the answers ! 

 

Based on your replies I think one of the reasons i've been struggling so much is simply because I do not have most of the units you recommend. 

 

No hellblasters, dark talon or autocanons. The autocanons do seem like a no-nonsense choice since they combine good ROF and do a flat 3 damage. 

 

I'm thinking of getting some hellblasters next then (and play them with azrael).

 

Once more thanks for the feedback!

Cheers, 

Tommy

[Kasper_Hawser]

Hi guys, 

Thanks for all the answers ! 

 

Based on your replies I think one of the reasons i've been struggling so much is simply because I do not have most of the units you recommend. 

 

No hellblasters, dark talon or autocanons. The autocanons do seem like a no-nonsense choice since they combine good ROF and do a flat 3 damage. 

 

I'm thinking of getting some hellblasters next then (and play them with azrael).

 

Once more thanks for the feedback!

Cheers, 

Tommy

 

Your welcome. Actually Assault cannons are better than Autocannons due to weight of fire. 12 shots on a box chassis (razorback or flyer) is really awesome.

 

Good luck with your upcoming plasma bomb. Just use with care, even with rerolls, you can still get ones and blow yourselves up.

 

This is more of a general advice, but always have at least one backup plan in case your big plan doesn't go, well, according to plan. For example if your hellblasters fall short of the goal, at least make sure you still have the Devastatros or tactical MSU plasma cannons to finish the plan.

[Basteala]

 

Hi guys, 

Thanks for all the answers ! 

 

Based on your replies I think one of the reasons i've been struggling so much is simply because I do not have most of the units you recommend. 

 

No hellblasters, dark talon or autocanons. The autocanons do seem like a no-nonsense choice since they combine good ROF and do a flat 3 damage. 

 

I'm thinking of getting some hellblasters next then (and play them with azrael).

 

Once more thanks for the feedback!

Cheers, 

Tommy

 

Your welcome. Actually Assault cannons are better than Autocannons due to weight of fire. 12 shots on a box chassis (razorback or flyer) is really awesome.

 

Good luck with your upcoming plasma bomb. Just use with care, even with rerolls, you can still get ones and blow yourselves up.

 

This is more of a general advice, but always have at least one backup plan in case your big plan doesn't go, well, according to plan. For example if your hellblasters fall short of the goal, at least make sure you still have the Devastatros or tactical MSU plasma cannons to finish the plan.

 

 

Depends on the target. if we're looking at 2 wound targets, I'll take the autocannons any day. Although excluding the Leviathan's -2 Stormcannon Arrays, Autocannon rend really isn't going to help against something like Custodes.

[robofish7591]

If you can jump through all the hoops and actually get them to work, predator autocannons with killshot are pretty awesome.  I have run a trio of dakka preds with my Iron Hands a few times and they can really put the hurt on if your dice are hot.