m0nolith Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 I'm not asking whether people are angry or not, the answer there is very plain for most people. My question is in regards to how much and how do you think this will affect the game? I do see a good chunk of present Heresy players being priced out of the game and are either going to quit or are going to take their business to more unsavory places. Another large chunk of people I see simply buying less from FW. In any case I see a drop off to FW's sales, and less sales means less money (even with the price increase), means less profit, means less of an incentive for GW to invest more resources into FW and 30k, means a significant limitation of this game and future releases, including rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349982-how-much-will-the-price-increase-affect-the-heresy/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlisimo Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 The Radio Free Isstvan podcast called for a boycott and is changing into a general gaming podcast instead of being 30k focused. I'm pretty much with them. I get why GW has differential pricing - they have high costs outside of the UK in the form of their stores. FW has publishing costs in low-cost countries and few other big expenses outside of the UK. It's harder to swallow. And in both cases, keeping the 20% that goes to VAT in the UK only is another frustrating move. But I don't think the regional price increases alone would've had that great an effect. Instead, it's the two years of uncertainty and missteps - will 30k move to 8th? Will Custodes get fixed? No, but let's focus on releasing units just for them, everyone else can have doors. Okay fine, have some wonky Space Wolves. Now we're killing products week by week. Here, nearly two years after it was necessary, is 2/3 of a FAQ. Here are some new models at eye-watering prices. Now let's jack those prices up in certain parts of the world. It's been a rough time, not actually much fun to follow. And it all adds up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349982-how-much-will-the-price-increase-affect-the-heresy/#findComment-5157677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supe robot gangster #1 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 I don't think you'll see many FW Knights in Australia anymore. Went from 320 using conversion, with free postage, to 520 with 25 postage for a castigator... Not a sign of the death of heresy, but with the markups across the board 30K will become a rare beast down here. Unfortunately Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349982-how-much-will-the-price-increase-affect-the-heresy/#findComment-5157712 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vykes Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 I'd hazard a guess that we'll see a shock stop for a little while then it'll pick up to a lesser degree in a few months with any series of new releases/Malevolence. Basically, I think it's a temporary dip in the trend, but I do think that given the mishandling 30K's received in the past year and a half, the trend is still 'downward'. I agree with Carlisimo, it's a bad time to get involved with what feels like a deeply mismanaged and neglected system. But that's an internal view, not external. I'm not sure how bad that rot will show. The people that are investing in FW models here are probably not going to quit cold turkey (I didn't. So while I'm not happy, I'm close to what I want, and that means even if it costs more I'm not going to stop based on principle.) That said, it could well be the last straw for some, and more likely to dissuade others from investing in secondary forces. But as for main forces, there is still likely to be purchases given the perception of the sunk cost principle. They have that 2.5K army, just 1-2 more models to get to the 3K 'gold standard' they wanted, then a few more after that because they've spent so much already. Player base growth I would expect to slow but not stop (new positive press releases can mitigate some of the bad will incurred), financial gains I would expect to also slow and even regress for a time but likely still end up as a sort of false positive given price increases and the local easy accessibility (it's hard to state how much foreign currency can scare off some individuals). But investment in 30K I'd expect will degrade further while offshoot (like Titanicus which is branded Heresy) and maybe a rebranding will seek to divest itself of some of the perception issues surrounding the Heresy at the moment. So... it'll affect it negatively, I'd guess. But it's likely going to be different based on region. Australasia got hammered hard, the US saw the same pricing issues that Canada did with core GW products during that regionalized embargo a few years back, and locally FW was always expensive and the average 12% increase is bad but not likely to be as big an issue as the lack of exposure and support. Customer Support and shipping issues might be the big story going forward in the immediate future as far as North American markers go (getting FW models in 1-2 days is a pretty substantial change that people may see as a cost justification). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349982-how-much-will-the-price-increase-affect-the-heresy/#findComment-5157715 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 They wont get any more of my money, lets put it that way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349982-how-much-will-the-price-increase-affect-the-heresy/#findComment-5157741 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grotsmasha Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Honestly, I think that FW may see a decrease in units shipped, but I also suspect that certain Chinese and Russian outfits will see an increase. Once a model is painted most would be hard pressed to see a difference. People who want to play Heresy will play Heresy, they just may no longer support FW as they once did. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349982-how-much-will-the-price-increase-affect-the-heresy/#findComment-5157746 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProsperoStands Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 What Grotmasha said. My plans for Heresy will continue, along with that of my local group. We will have FW product, we won't be getting it from FW. Any new players who want in? BaC, BoP, 40k plastic kits and then FW from other sources. FW does not get another cent from me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349982-how-much-will-the-price-increase-affect-the-heresy/#findComment-5158186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_r_parker Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 I'd say it's "six of one, and half a dozen of the other", with it all coming down to where you are in the world. As someone who is in the UK, I'd dare say that things have got better for us. We've got rid of the "Orders under £250 have postage costs of 12%" and now have a small flat rate that brings FW postage more in line with GW generally. Flat £3.50 for postage removes a lot of the internal discussion of "Should I wait until I can get my order up to £250 and get free shipping?" and makes more impromptu purchasing viable. If you make smaller purchases easier you'll attract customers who have been put off by high postage costs. Personally I'd love to see the breakdown of sales between the UK, US, EU and RoW. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349982-how-much-will-the-price-increase-affect-the-heresy/#findComment-5158240 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProsperoStands Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Basically if you like in the UK, or near it its a good thing. Everyone else? We can get :cussed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349982-how-much-will-the-price-increase-affect-the-heresy/#findComment-5158246 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elzender Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 I checked the other day the comparison euros-pounds with an LCTB order I made a couple days before the change. While the price of the products was obviously a bit higher, the offer on free shipping actually made it cheaper, and even if I had payed the new shipping rate it would hace been about one more euro than before. If it is a flat rate for shipping, it might actually encourage me to do smaller orders, as the 15% shipping made me wait to make big orders for over 250 pounds (which, admittedly, is not that difficult with FW prices :D). I was very worried about this, but it seems Europe has not gotten the worst deal out of it. Nonetheless, my sympathies are with all regions that have got the short end of the stick. Sadly, I'm not sure boycotting FW would have any positive impact on this, and may even make things worse for FW and the future of the Heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349982-how-much-will-the-price-increase-affect-the-heresy/#findComment-5158331 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 I don’t know if it will actually impact HH given that BaC is available and lots of HH vehicles can be proxied Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349982-how-much-will-the-price-increase-affect-the-heresy/#findComment-5158352 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiritual Liege Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 I don’t know if it will actually impact HH given that BaC is available and lots of HH vehicles can be proxied Yeah but all of the cool stuff is FW. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349982-how-much-will-the-price-increase-affect-the-heresy/#findComment-5158391 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandwen Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Radio Free Istanavan has a track record of being reliant on FW while hating them. Of crying over prices in a niche and expensive hobby and pointing people to knock-offs. Their supporter group on FB even has links to PDF copies of all FW books. It a pretty sad group. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349982-how-much-will-the-price-increase-affect-the-heresy/#findComment-5158393 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vykes Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 I suppose we'll see. Is it too early to expect to see results? Because right now I'm fighting for a spot in a 30K narrative league locally as we have a fairly big number of players and limited openings. I suspect the overall effect might take some time to emerge. But as for me, meh, at the risk of getting a touch off topic: so long as FW puts out models that I really want, I'll buy 'em. I'm at a place in my life for the first time where I can afford what I've wanted since I was a kid, and I have the technical ability to not feel like I'm butchering nice models. I don't want to cut my nose off to spite my face by participating in a boycott by not buying what I want. Neither am I going to march to the beat of the drum to support a company that doesn't personally profit me by demonizing alternatives. It's not my job to balance out the cost to benefit ratio involved in promoting and maintaining a healthy FW-derived gaming scene. I don't link FW, recasts, anti-FW to any sort of morality because I don't have brand loyalty. Someone shows up with a full new army of mk.II White Scars, I'm not going to be wagging my finger saying "It's almost certainly a recast! Sssssshaaaaaaame!" I'm going to be smiling saying, "Oh cool, early era White Scars! Ready to face the wrath of the Sons of Horus?" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349982-how-much-will-the-price-increase-affect-the-heresy/#findComment-5158428 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProsperoStands Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 Good. I hope Radio Free Istavaan keeps it up. I am not ashamed to say I will never buy FW again. I get that it is a niche hobby, I get that any business obviously needs to make a mark up to make money.I priced it out. My current 16th legion force with all the bells and whistles, at current FW pricing would be around 2200.00 American. This is for a 3k point army. Sourced elsewhere? just shy of 700 bucks. Too much of a mark up, I am sorry. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349982-how-much-will-the-price-increase-affect-the-heresy/#findComment-5158437 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStatusJoe Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 What will this do in the immediate? Not much. As far as models go, Forge World has just effectively priced themselves out of the market. I will say that my XIIIth legion will continue to be put together via kitbashing infantry together and picking up a small item here or there. Chinacast will be my go to for larger vehicles now. Forgeworld will still be my go to for transfers, as they are now a bit more accessible int he United States at $25 each with $10 shipping. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349982-how-much-will-the-price-increase-affect-the-heresy/#findComment-5158496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughingman Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 At least in the PNW 30K community a large chunk (like 50%) of Forge-World models were already bootleg, raising the price 20% is only going to increase that number... They won't be getting a dime of my money in the meantime... I suspect we will see a emergence of a "Grey market Forgeworld" whereby the use of forwarding addresses and proxies become commonplace to avoid the regional pricing Model. Make sense if you have a couple of people or are spending significant money... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349982-how-much-will-the-price-increase-affect-the-heresy/#findComment-5158511 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malios Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 As an Australian, I'm not happy. But, we all know that Australians at this time are not happy with forge world so I won't beat that dead horse. I will continue to purchase Forge World's future horus heresy black books and Imperial Armour books out of principle to keep the sets complete. But, I will be utilising mates in the UK: I won't be buying them at Australian prices. As for my Alpha Legion army... Its not expanding anymore. It wasn't as simple a decision as "FW's upped their prices so I'm done" as there were more factors involved, but was the point that tipped the decision. It's now more affordable for me to work on 40k stuff going forward then it is to purchase 30k from forge world. Having worked with resin for a long time, I'm glad to be moving back to plastic and I doubt I'm the only Australian who will feel this way. In saying all things, I agree with some of the previous posters: initially Forge World's Horus Heresy sales will take a hit, especially in the Australasian region (which is a minority in a very niche market so losing us won't hurt figures too greatly). But, they will find a way to bounce back through other revenues like specialist games. What spoils it for me is that as a system, the horus heresy is just that little more unappealing to new blood. That I think is the greatest loss of all this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349982-how-much-will-the-price-increase-affect-the-heresy/#findComment-5158521 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgoff Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 Oh :cuss. GW dropped both HH boxes! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349982-how-much-will-the-price-increase-affect-the-heresy/#findComment-5158556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_r_parker Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 Dang - he’s not wrong! Just had a peek on the GW UK site, and the Calth and Prospero boxes don’t come up in a search. The bundle of the two does come up but is flagged as “No longer available”. Now I have to decide whether to buy the copies in my local GW in 40 minutes time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349982-how-much-will-the-price-increase-affect-the-heresy/#findComment-5158560 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughingman Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 Anybody if the UK VAT refund program extends to items bought via Forwarding Address in the UK? Debating forking up for address with some friends, to avoid the currency gouge... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349982-how-much-will-the-price-increase-affect-the-heresy/#findComment-5158569 Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0nolith Posted September 1, 2018 Author Share Posted September 1, 2018 Oh . GW dropped both HH boxes! They cant be this stupid.... You cant give the game such a huge shakeup with this price debacle and at the same time kill the Calth and Prospero boxes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349982-how-much-will-the-price-increase-affect-the-heresy/#findComment-5158572 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearson73 Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 This is just absurd, I really can't think of a sensible justification for their recent handling of the Heresy range. Calth seems to have disappeared from some online stockists, but Prospero is still available on some. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349982-how-much-will-the-price-increase-affect-the-heresy/#findComment-5158583 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vykes Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 Wouldn'tcha know it, Calth and Prospero are gone from the GW Cnd site too... Alright mates, this bodes. Oh this bodes. The eternal optimist in me says "Maybe they're just reboxing and rebranding it with 'Siege of Terra' rather than 'Horus Heresy' to coincide with the new BL stuff", the rest of me keeps looking at those plastic Calth contemptors saying, "Did anyone buy them individually?" -sighs- gonna have to go check my local stockist tomorrow to see if he has any left. And here I didn't want to snag anything until Rogue Trader dropped. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349982-how-much-will-the-price-increase-affect-the-heresy/#findComment-5158589 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgoff Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 The individual boxes remain but it sucks anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349982-how-much-will-the-price-increase-affect-the-heresy/#findComment-5158592 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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