How much will the price increase affect the Heresy?

[Jackalwolf]

There is still hope. If Andy Hoare goes back to lead the heresy now that big bulk of specialist games is complete and FW gives more resources we could see a renaissance.

[Unknown Legionnaire]

The game isn't  'dead'  yet, there's still material to come.

 

Also, if it upsets people so much, maybe they should play something different. No one's forcing anyone to play Horus Heresy.

 

 

And what I mentioned earlier in this thread ... people will always be playing the games they (and their friends) like, or liked in the past or previous incarnations of these games.

 

Actually, it's a very refreshing and non-pressurized thing to do so, since no one puts out 'new rules' for that game on a six month basis, which is more or less depressing. I believe I got in like 3 games of 40k 7th ed before 8th was released and had to buy 3 books to field my army (Dark Eldar ... oh sorry 'Drukhari' ... ) .... now that was worth it, really.  

 

And by the way, if it puts pressure on someone to partake in a game, they should just give it up for the sale of their own health and the mood of the people around them trying to enjoy a game.

 

Remember what I said about WHFB on the previous page ? Yeah, it's no longer supported by GW, but people still play it and won't cease to in the near future. Like once a month or so I meet up with two buddies and we get in a couple of games.

Thinking about it ... whoa, I actually only play  'dead'  games !  Poor, poor me !

Horus Heresy ?  Dead !

WHFB ?  Dead !

The roleplaying game we've been thinking about picking up again in the near future which is from like ... the 90's ?  Dead !

The boardgame where the second edition was so much better than the third and people still play it like everywhere ?  Dead !

That videogame which isn't a brand new release but has seen a couple years come and go by now but it still immense fun ?  Dead !

 

...

 

So, yeah, I like  'dead'  games. 

 

 

 

EDIT: spelling errors, it's early in the morning :-)

[Luna707]

I've said it before when the Heresy "died" the first time, but I'll say it again: The Horus Heresy (and maybe the Unification Wars) and FW are the only reasons I'm in this hobby. I'm not a snob or a nazi (not sure where all this toxic garbage is coming from, you all need to cool the :cussing jets), as I don't mind what other people do or how others enjoy the grim darkness. To that end, I would never disparage someone for enjoying the 8th edition and its lore or using the wrong figures for the era- I just want people to have fun and enjoy the hobby. I just know for me, the Heresy is really the only thing that I find intriguing. 

 

Forgeworld's price hike and mishandling of the era after Alan Bligh's passing has really rubbed me the wrong way however that cannot change what I love. FW could discontinue the entire Horus Heresy range tomorrow and I would still be making my version of the era for as long as I remain in the hobby.  

 

So for all you heresy fans out there, I'll be keeping the light alive over here, regardless of support or a larger community. 

[Marshal Rohr]

I've said it before when the Heresy "died" the first time, but I'll say it again: The Horus Heresy (and maybe the Unification Wars) and FW are the only reasons I'm in this hobby. I'm not a snob or a nazi (not sure where all this toxic garbage is coming from, you all need to cool the :cussing jets), as I don't mind what other people do or how others enjoy the grim darkness. To that end, I would never disparage someone for enjoying the 8th edition and its lore or using the wrong figures for the era- I just want people to have fun and enjoy the hobby. I just know for me, the Heresy is really the only thing that I find intriguing.

 

Forgeworld's price hike and mishandling of the era after Alan Bligh's passing has really rubbed me the wrong way however that cannot change what I love. FW could discontinue the entire Horus Heresy range tomorrow and I would still be making my version of the era for as long as I remain in the hobby.

 

So for all you heresy fans out there, I'll be keeping the light alive over here, regardless of support or a larger community.

I saw you posting on Maryland 30k a few times, too! As long as people continue to find the setting cool like they did pre-2012 it will stay strong.

[Luna707]

I saw you posting on Maryland 30k a few times, too! As long as people continue to find the setting cool like they did pre-2012 it will stay strong.

Hell Yeah! I’m in DC, I would love to hit up the group more but man I’ve been pressed for time lately

[Lord Blackwood]

As someone who owns several large armies for 30k  in my Imperial Fists and My  Space wolves, as well as my Massive Knight Household I can definitely say that  I am more than willing to get a game of 30k in, and the big group of northwest 30k still runs events and still has a strong community. 

These are good things, and I am glad that I was able to be a part of that community when it was getting off the ground. 

But since 8th edition of 40k dropped, well I  have not played more than 3 zone mortalis games of 30k  and maybe 20-25 8th edition games and the reason is that people who are close to me would rather play 8th edition than play 7th and I find that before Games and Gizmos closed that was the way things were, and now that my circle of opponents is even more limited that is definitely how things are. 

The high price of entry is going to keep my friends from buying in to HH, the more complex ruleset will keep them from getting in to HH, but we all love the fluff and we all read the books and have these great conversations , but when it comes to spending our money and playing the game we gravitate away from the thing that's more expensive and harder to navigate. 

The path of least resistance is usually the way folks are gonna go. 

While I won't go so far as to call people Nazis, I have seen plenty of elitism here from people when Heresy was blowing up due to the Box sets. It's not like it did not happen. But those people are clowns that are insufferable to begin with.  

People are gonna go where they can get games, and right now you stand a better chance of getting a 40k  game in than a 30k game, and while the new rule system ain't perfect by a long shot its still far less tangled up than 7th and more accessible.  So now we have Heresy which is Higher Entry Cost, More complex, with a smaller player pool. 

No matter how rose-tinted your glasses are, you would need to be pretty thick not to see that a change needs to happen in order to keep the community from drastically shrinking further.   

[noigrim]

Besides the price 8th is more gamer friendly and playable than 7th and its insane bookeeping

[Marshal Rohr]

7th doesn’t have insane bookkeeping without detachments and formations.

[Gorgoff]

8th is to 7th what 3d was to 2d.

A dumbed down version to attract new kids and therefore gain a new generation of players.

We as a group skiped 3d entirely and keept playing second and that is exactly what is happening right now with 8th. Only the new guys play it plus those who play every game anyway.

I don't judge anyone for playing or liking it. It is a nice little boardgame but nothing more.

We have to see how they will improve that skeleton game in 9th version.

[Brofist]

Most of our group skipped 8th as well. We have a few that play both games, but among the 30k crowd most everyone is playing HH or AT.

[Gorgoff]

So, yeah, I like 'dead' games.

 

 

EDIT: spelling errors, it's early in the morning :-)

I second that. At the moment I'm bidding on a Star Quest box.

Gonna use HH miniatures to exchange those ugly miniatures. ;)

 

AT.... I'd love to but noone likes it here. So I understand the poor souls who doesn't have any 30k playerbase.

[StruManChu]

8th effectively split our dedicated HH group. There were about 15 of us, including our FLGS manager, who'd let us run club nights in the store. We formalised the club a while back because we wanted to buy things like a ZM board and we figured, what with dealing with people's money, it would be a good idea to have a club constitution, etc.

 

Anyway, the guy who got elected President of the Club was more of a painter and less of a player, but we had a mix of peeps, so it was ok. Some of us just liked the build and paint side, some liked to game, and some (include myself) did both as we felt. Good times were had. We hung out after the store closed, chatted a bunch of dumb stuff, and generally loved the 30k life, because it was something different that we all enjoyed.

 

Until El Presidente decided, having played a single game of 8th and won, despite never winning any games before, I think ever, that 8th was the best thing ever and we all needed to start playing it immediately. He was so up in arms about FW deciding to stick to 7th-esque rules for 30k that he called an immediate vote about opening the club up to 8th and 40k and binning the Heresy component.

 

Some went with it. Our FLGS manager did too, because (I think) he just wanted to sell more Primaris stuff. Those of us who were midway through a campaign understandably wanted to not do that thing he was suggesting and asked for more time, to wait and see until after the Weekender (which we all were planning on going to) what the deal was.

 

The Weekender did not go overly well. I mean, I had a great time, as did the rest of the guy who had tried 8th and felt it to be a bit too much like training wheels. But the rest, who were already looking for faults to find, took barely anything away from it except that Titanicus was coming and Necromunda was cool again. The club folded less than a month after that. One of the guys bought the rest of us out for the ZM stuff, and I've barely seen any of them since.

 

It's fair to say I have a pretty decent chip on my shoulder about 8th. It's fair to say I wish Forgeworld would stop trying to sell me AT stuff as an extension of 30k, because there's no Legions in it. I've said so in other places, but having spent thousands of pounds and hours on this stuff, 30k is the hill my hobby dies on. I'll play it as long as I can, but once it's done, so am I.

 

Ironically both the club's former president AND the former FLGS manager have both moved away in the months since Location we folded, and I can't help feel that if they'd just left it alone I'd be feeling much better about all the junk the wider community has gone through in the last six to twelve months...

[noigrim]

True 7th was an amazing game, so much invisibility and D spams

[m0nolith]

True 7th was an amazing game, so much invisibility and D spams

I remember when 7th was released and people where talking about how great it was and some even said it's their favorite edition ever. This was the case in the beginning. Then waac players, codexes, formations, ect ect turned it into the bloated thing it was at the end.

 

A good chunk of those 40k players did turn away and instead went to 30k where 7th was done well. This also explains why 30k became so big near the end of 7th. It's no surprise to me why so many went back to 40k after 8th came out. They had years of armies and communities to pull them back in. 

 

7th was always a great edition, but you need secondary things to make it work, something that HH did well now and overall does well with AoD 1st ed. I say that with the full belief that 8th 40k is far better than 7th 40k, but I still significantly prefer 7th HH. Its all the added things to the 7th system that makes 30k the great game it is. The army lists, the RoW, the general structure of it works so much better than anything worked in 7th 40k.

 

No, its not a perfect edition and there are issues with some forces like Custodes, 1kS and Mechanicum, but given the communities ability to self police (something that was always problematic in 40k), its not really that big of an issue. 8th is now entering that phase of "were starting to notice issues". You can always argue its just teething problems, but when those teething problems are based upon an increase in sales, GW isn't actively looking to fix said issues. Formations and Wraithknights were a result of the same issue in 7th.

 

In any case, if you like 8th, more power to you. You have a game that you enjoy that uses 8th, Warhammer 40k.

If you're like me and prefer something closer to 7th, then there's a game for us, The Horus Heresy.

 

Its the worst kind of entitlement thinking you deserve two 8th ed games, leaving players like us without one.

[ProsperoStands]

As monolith stated, 7th is a fine rule set at its core level and it really was the edition many of us have played.

What screwed 7th was the simple fact that GW did not test much, if anything so codex creep was real.

 

8th is a joke imo. It has a few good ideas but overall its a piece of :cuss.

 

More power to people who like it.

[Vykes]

-taps a bit- Y'know, I don't think that the whole 'Heresy Elitism' is much of a thing anymore (It has its surges and the likes, but there was two well known youtube videos that I can think of that utterly infuriated more than a few people I know back in the day which led to that charge).  But, I really didn't expect much antipathy towards 8th.  Apathy sure, but antipathy, not really.  Kinda disappointed there to tell you the truth.  "Yeah I mean it totally sucks, just go play that and leave the big kids alone.  Not that I hate you or anything if that's your choice... Bakka."*

 

I do think that the AoD ruleset is 7.5, and a lot better for it.  7E and 8E are different beasts, but ...

 

You know what, I'm not gonna go waste anyone's time including a list of pros and cons and why X and y are both valid: just be welcoming and inclusive towards everyone regardless of edition background.  If they want a 30K 8E game, suggest using the CSM and SM dexes with cross pollination from the FW indecii and let them run with it while leveraging your knowledge of the setting to make it 'fluffy'.  Then go back to business as usual while letting them exist side by side and supporting 'em in spirit.  The further any of us entrench in these stupidly pointless edition wars, the more polarized, insular, and echo chambering these communities get.  Humour the non believers, you may make converts of them yet.  Hey, they may even run their 'fluffy' 30K inspired 8E army in a proper Age of Darkness game with you after a while. 

 

*Tsundere, always the best dere, man. 

[Droz_64]

ProsperoStands is right. 7th is amazing at every level save hyper-competitive. 8th is too simplified. Simplicity is nice, but in moderation. We are playing a war game, not a board game.

 

Side question: Now that FW is expensive as :cuss: outside the UK, what do you guys recommend for getting things like artillery? I found some cool WW1/2 pieces I'm using for my Militia, but for my legion list, the FW artillery is ridiculous. 

[Master Sheol]

8th is to 7th what 3d was to 2d.

A dumbed down version to attract new kids and therefore gain a new generation of players.

We as a group skiped 3d entirely and keept playing second and that is exactly what is happening right now with 8th. Only the new guys play it plus those who play every game anyway.

I don't judge anyone for playing or liking it. It is a nice little boardgame but nothing more.

We have to see how they will improve that skeleton game in 9th version.

Please don't compare the ugly 7th to the glorious 2nd ;)

[m0nolith]

 

8th is to 7th what 3d was to 2d.

A dumbed down version to attract new kids and therefore gain a new generation of players.

We as a group skiped 3d entirely and keept playing second and that is exactly what is happening right now with 8th. Only the new guys play it plus those who play every game anyway.

I don't judge anyone for playing or liking it. It is a nice little boardgame but nothing more.

We have to see how they will improve that skeleton game in 9th version.

Please don't compare the ugly 7th to the glorious 2nd

 

I started in 2nd. Having just played through all of Chaos Gate after not touching it for literally 20 years, it reminded me how....slow moving 2nd ed was.

I'll always have a soft spot for it in my heart, but naw, 7th is better in every way.

 

Edit: Except Vortex Grenades

[Master Sheol]

 

 

 

8th is to 7th what 3d was to 2d.

A dumbed down version to attract new kids and therefore gain a new generation of players.

We as a group skiped 3d entirely and keept playing second and that is exactly what is happening right now with 8th. Only the new guys play it plus those who play every game anyway.

I don't judge anyone for playing or liking it. It is a nice little boardgame but nothing more.

We have to see how they will improve that skeleton game in 9th version.

Please don't compare the ugly 7th to the glorious 2nd

I started in 2nd. Having just played through all of Chaos Gate after not touching it for literally 20 years, it reminded me how....slow moving 2nd ed was.

I'll always have a soft spot for it in my heart, but naw, 7th is better in every way.

 

Edit: Except Vortex Grenades

I started in 2nd and Yes the game was slower and you had less models It was a nice edition

The best one i played was 4th edition

 

I think that 7th edition is not so good

[carlisimo]

Imagine running squadrons of 3 Land Speeders, getting pelted with shots, and having to consult a 2nd-edition style datafax telling you to roll to see if the speeder, gunner, or pilot gets hit (after rolling a d6, d4, and a d10 for some special weapon's armor penetration), and maybe one loses control and crashes a random distance in a random direction and the surviving crew become an infantry unit of their own... 2nd edition was great, but you wouldn't use it for the equivalent of a 3000 point 30k battle!

 

Anyway.  40k getting a new edition was always going to pull people back away from 30k, and that would've been fine if not for every other move FW has made to shrink the game (though I guess dropping the starter boxes is on GW).  It may not be dead, but it could've been more alive.

[Gorgoff]

True 7th was an amazing game, so much invisibility and D spams

 

 

You talk about the Codices.

In HH D-Spam was never an issue because it is simple not possible to pull of. And the community regulate itself, so invisibility wasn't a problem either and now it is gone completely.

 

 

 

True 7th was an amazing game, so much invisibility and D spams

 

I remember when 7th was released and people where talking about how great it was and some even said it's their favorite edition ever. This was the case in the beginning. Then waac players, codexes, formations, ect ect turned it into the bloated thing it was at the end.

 

A good chunk of those 40k players did turn away and instead went to 30k where 7th was done well. This also explains why 30k became so big near the end of 7th. It's no surprise to me why so many went back to 40k after 8th came out. They had years of armies and communities to pull them back in. 

 

7th was always a great edition, but you need secondary things to make it work, something that HH did well now and overall does well with AoD 1st ed. I say that with the full belief that 8th 40k is far better than 7th 40k, but I still significantly prefer 7th HH. Its all the added things to the 7th system that makes 30k the great game it is. The army lists, the RoW, the general structure of it works so much better than anything worked in 7th 40k.

 

No, its not a perfect edition and there are issues with some forces like Custodes, 1kS and Mechanicum, but given the communities ability to self police (something that was always problematic in 40k), its not really that big of an issue. 8th is now entering that phase of "were starting to notice issues". You can always argue its just teething problems, but when those teething problems are based upon an increase in sales, GW isn't actively looking to fix said issues. Formations and Wraithknights were a result of the same issue in 7th.

 

In any case, if you like 8th, more power to you. You have a game that you enjoy that uses 8th, Warhammer 40k.

If you're like me and prefer something closer to 7th, then there's a game for us, The Horus Heresy.

 

Its the worst kind of entitlement thinking you deserve two 8th ed games, leaving players like us without one.

Pretty much that, yes.

One of the biggest hits I took from 8th is that the whole realese is the reason why I can't watch 40k battlereports anymore. And I loved watching these although I didn't play it anymore. Striking Scorpion made so cool and great reports but now with using 8th edition his (and any other) new report is unbearable to me.

Such a pitty. :(

 

  

As monolith stated, 7th is a fine rule set at its core level and it really was the edition many of us have played.

What screwed 7th was the simple fact that GW did not test much, if anything so codex creep was real.

.

  

 

Power creep was (and is) real in 40k.

That's one of the main reasons I switched to HH.

 

Please don't compare the ugly 7th to the glorious 2nd ;)

Hehe, I don't.

2nd is still the Cadillac of all editions. ;)

 

  

 

 

 

8th is to 7th what 3d was to 2d.

A dumbed down version to attract new kids and therefore gain a new generation of players.

We as a group skiped 3d entirely and keept playing second and that is exactly what is happening right now with 8th. Only the new guys play it plus those who play every game anyway.

I don't judge anyone for playing or liking it. It is a nice little boardgame but nothing more.

We have to see how they will improve that skeleton game in 9th version.

Please don't compare the ugly 7th to the glorious 2nd ;)

I started in 2nd. Having just played through all of Chaos Gate after not touching it for literally 20 years, it reminded me how....slow moving 2nd ed was.

I'll always have a soft spot for it in my heart, but naw, 7th is better in every way.

Edit: Except Vortex Grenades

I started in 2nd and Yes the game was slower and you had less models It was a nice edition

The best one i played was 4th edition

I think that 7th edition is not so good

Interesting. I still love 2nd but I despised 4th and think 7th is one of the best editions.

Tastes tend to differ.

[ProsperoStands]

When it comes it 7th I understand why people hate it. The bogus codex creep made some armies broken, some unplayable, and formations were a case of good idea bad follow through.

 

But to bring it back around, I think we will see an upsurge in 2nd hand armies and FW armies sourced from other places.

 

Because who in their right mind will pay 96.00 American for ONE LAND SPEEDER?!

[Gorgoff]

When it comes it 7th I understand why people hate it. The bogus codex creep made some armies broken, some unplayable, and formations were a case of good idea bad follow through.

 

But to bring it back around, I think we will see an upsurge in 2nd hand armies and FW armies sourced from other places.

 

Because who in their right mind will pay 96.00 American for ONE LAND SPEEDER?!

I may add: for THAT Land Speeder. ;)

[ProsperoStands]

You are of course correct. For that land speeder from FW.

THAT land speeder from else where far less so.