Did the Codex add any new Primaris Successors?

[Dragonlover]

I've not had a chance to read the new Codex, are there any Primaris Successors that aren't the Wolfspear in there?

 

Dragonlover

[Guest Triszin]

No mention sadly

[Aqui]

The only mention of a Space Wolf Primaris successor anywhere right now, is the Wolf Spear in the Dark Imperium book, and the details are really sparse. No heraldry, no colour scheme. Even their home world is an alphanumeric designation. I've been thinking of expanding on them, but I'm not sure I want to go to the bother of doing so, only for GW to fill in the gaps down the line.

[Vash113]

As others have said the codex makes no mention of successor chapters, it does not even mention the Wolfspear at all from what I can see. For that matter not a whole lot was done with the Primaris marines in general.

It'll probably be a few more years before GW really gets back to moving the Primaris marines forward in the narrative and hopefully we'll eventually get a book about the Wolfspear or another successor chapter.

The one tidbit that was interesting in the new book is that it does detail that although Belisarius Cawl claimed to have removed the negative side-effects from the Space Wolves gene-seed the Primaris Space Marines are susceptible to the Curse of the Wulfen and some Inceptors succumbed in the middle of battle and flew into a mad frenzy of bashing their enemies with their guns instead of shooting them. Now they returned to normal after the battle and did not devolve into Wulfen so it seems the Primaris marines are more resistant than their older-pattern battle-brothers but it does mean the curse is not a factor for them and the Wolfspear may still go the way of the Wolf Brothers...

[Guest]

Just wait for Primaris Codex: Space Wolves I guess. Every SM codex has been dissapointing about Primaris. BA had rumors of assault Primaris with jump packs and received nothing. BA had rumors of Terminator Primaris and received nothing. SW had rumors of hard charging melee units and received nothing. I wish GW would just release something or anything about what they plan on doing.

[Stoic Raptor]

The upside is, it leaves a lot to my imagination.  I can make a Primaris SW army, call them the Wolfspear, and not have some pedantic nerd tell me I painted them wrong or something.

[Dragonlover]

Oh man that's disappointing. If/when we get Chaos Primaris I'm planning on an old school style Red Corsair force but with all the Marines drawn from the various Primaris-only Chapters, so I was hoping for some more from here. Ah well!

 

Dragonlover

[Leif Bearclaw]

 

The one tidbit that was interesting in the new book is that it does detail that although Belisarius Cawl claimed to have removed the negative side-effects from the Space Wolves gene-seed the Primaris Space Marines are susceptible to the Curse of the Wulfen and some Inceptors succumbed in the middle of battle and flew into a mad frenzy of bashing their enemies with their guns instead of shooting them. Now they returned to normal after the battle and did not devolve into Wulfen so it seems the Primaris marines are more resistant than their older-pattern battle-brothers but it does mean the curse is not a factor for them and the Wolfspear may still go the way of the Wolf Brothers...

 

Eh, that's pretty much what happens to regular marines too for the most part. That's the Curse of the Wulfen, the beast wins out over the man for a time. Fully devolving (when the beast completely overwhelms the man) used to be exceedingly rare once recruitment was complete (and was potentially reversible iirc). Now they seem to treat it like the Black Rage, but fuzzy. Which is a turn for the worse imo, but what isn't these days ?

 

As for Cawl, it's conceivable that he didn't know about the Curse. Given that Wulfen now didn't manifest in the VI Legion in noteworthy numbers until Prospero and the Heresy, it's possible that the Imperium at large, and the Ad Mech genewrights didn't know about it. When the 13th returned as Wulfen it caused a stir (even amongst the Wolves, with that weird 'we thought these weapons were ceremonial' thing) because it was so unexpected and unknown. So Cawl probably fixed the difficulties in implanting the VI gene-line (mentioned in Inferno) and thought that was that.

[PeteySödes]

The upside is, it leaves a lot to my imagination. I can make a Primaris SW army, call them the Wolfspear, and not have some pedantic nerd tell me I painted them wrong or something.

As long as you buy the right shoulder pads yea...

[Vash113]

 

Eh, that's pretty much what happens to regular marines too for the most part. That's the Curse of the Wulfen, the beast wins out over the man for a time. Fully devolving (when the beast completely overwhelms the man) used to be exceedingly rare once recruitment was complete (and was potentially reversible iirc). Now they seem to treat it like the Black Rage, but fuzzy. Which is a turn for the worse imo, but what isn't these days ?

 

As for Cawl, it's conceivable that he didn't know about the Curse. Given that Wulfen now didn't manifest in the VI Legion in noteworthy numbers until Prospero and the Heresy, it's possible that the Imperium at large, and the Ad Mech genewrights didn't know about it. When the 13th returned as Wulfen it caused a stir (even amongst the Wolves, with that weird 'we thought these weapons were ceremonial' thing) because it was so unexpected and unknown. So Cawl probably fixed the difficulties in implanting the VI gene-line (mentioned in Inferno) and thought that was that.

 

 

I always remember succumbing to the curse was a permanent devolution with no restoration possible. Warriors who fell to the battle frenzy or temporarily lost themselves in combat felt the bite of the curse but didn't fully lose themselves to it. Though now Bran Redmaw repeatedly loses himself to the curse and returns to normal with no problem... oh well.

 

As for Cawl I think it's we can be fairly sure he knows about the Canis Helix and the Black Rage/Red Thirst as these were among things he specifically sought to hammer out of his Primaris Marines. The lack of Space Wolves successors and the genetic instability of the VI Legion gene-seed must have been things Cawl would have needed to know before tampering with the gene-seed of Russ and producing his own Primaris Space Wolves.

[sbarnby71]

Ok possibly dumb question but I get the initial Primaris were made\recruited from some distant world, not Fenris, but how are they replaced, because at some point they are gonna die, will they ever be made from Fenrisan stock?

[Guest]

Ok possibly dumb question but I get the initial Primaris were made\recruited from some distant world, not Fenris, but how are they replaced, because at some point they are gonna die, will they ever be made from Fenrisan stock?

In Dark Imperium the Primaris are recruited from Fenris. I haven't seen anything saying otherwise.

[Karhedron]

Just wait for Primaris Codex: Space Wolves I guess. Every SM codex has been dissapointing about Primaris. BA had rumors of assault Primaris with jump packs and received nothing. BA had rumors of Terminator Primaris and received nothing. SW had rumors of hard charging melee units and received nothing. I wish GW would just release something or anything about what they plan on doing.

The Primaris range is only 1 year old and it has been a busy year for GW. Remember that they are trying to fill/create new niches for the Primaris line rather than straight-up invalidating existing SM unit entries. My guess is we won't see new Primaris units until after they have finished some of the newly announced releases such as SoBs.

 

As for the Wulfen and Black Rage, Cawl's exact words were...

 

The corrected flaws in the new gene-stocks show no signs of regression to previous unstable states, whether in successor Chapters composed entirely of the new Primaris Space Marine type, or in already established Chapters. Elimination entirely of the more idiosyncratic traits of some gene-lines is, however, not to be recommended. They form part of the Emperor’s original vision, and are, in any case, crucial to their proper function. The improved gene-seed of Ninth and Sixth Legion stock is operating within acceptable parameters.

I wonder what Cawl considers "acceptable parameters"? It is clear that both the BAs and SWs have not been completely "cured" of their respective genetic quirks.

[Dantay VI]

 

 

Eh, that's pretty much what happens to regular marines too for the most part. That's the Curse of the Wulfen, the beast wins out over the man for a time. Fully devolving (when the beast completely overwhelms the man) used to be exceedingly rare once recruitment was complete (and was potentially reversible iirc). Now they seem to treat it like the Black Rage, but fuzzy. Which is a turn for the worse imo, but what isn't these days ?

 

As for Cawl, it's conceivable that he didn't know about the Curse. Given that Wulfen now didn't manifest in the VI Legion in noteworthy numbers until Prospero and the Heresy, it's possible that the Imperium at large, and the Ad Mech genewrights didn't know about it. When the 13th returned as Wulfen it caused a stir (even amongst the Wolves, with that weird 'we thought these weapons were ceremonial' thing) because it was so unexpected and unknown. So Cawl probably fixed the difficulties in implanting the VI gene-line (mentioned in Inferno) and thought that was that.

 

I always remember succumbing to the curse was a permanent devolution with no restoration possible. Warriors who fell to the battle frenzy or temporarily lost themselves in combat felt the bite of the curse but didn't fully lose themselves to it. Though now Bran Redmaw repeatedly loses himself to the curse and returns to normal with no problem... oh well.

 

As for Cawl I think it's we can be fairly sure he knows about the Canis Helix and the Black Rage/Red Thirst as these were among things he specifically sought to hammer out of his Primaris Marines. The lack of Space Wolves successors and the genetic instability of the VI Legion gene-seed must have been things Cawl would have needed to know before tampering with the gene-seed of Russ and producing his own Primaris Space Wolves.

If you read the last book of the Ragnar Blackmanes series he has a marine who devolved into a wulfen and he talked him back round.

 

The rubric by Maddox to return Magnus also saw the chapter begin to succumb to the curse but were brought back when the rubric was broken.

[Guest]

 

Just wait for Primaris Codex: Space Wolves I guess. Every SM codex has been dissapointing about Primaris. BA had rumors of assault Primaris with jump packs and received nothing. BA had rumors of Terminator Primaris and received nothing. SW had rumors of hard charging melee units and received nothing. I wish GW would just release something or anything about what they plan on doing.

 

The Primaris range is only 1 year old and it has been a busy year for GW. Remember that they are trying to fill/create new niches for the Primaris line rather than straight-up invalidating existing SM unit entries. My guess is we won't see new Primaris units until after they have finished some of the newly announced releases such as SoBs.

As for the Wulfen and Black Rage, Cawl's exact words were...

 

It was more meant as a joke. I would rather have more Primaris and not need a other codex than have more Primaris and need another codex. Honestly I don't mind if they replace old marines., However I'd rather them mimic the legion style units with a modernized look. The Primaris right now mimic mk IV, however inceptors and gravis does not resemble any old armor.

[Vash113]

 

If you read the last book of the Ragnar Blackmanes series he has a marine who devolved into a wulfen and he talked him back round.

 

The rubric by Maddox to return Magnus also saw the chapter begin to succumb to the curse but were brought back when the rubric was broken.

 

 

Ragnar talked Hogun out of the worst of his murder-lust but he had still fallen to the curse and did not return to normal but would fight on as a wolf-bitten. Which is not unprecedented, after all for a while we could even upgrade one Blood Claw in each pack into a model suffering the Curse of the Wulfen. As for the whole thing with Maddox that was sorcery, not a true fall to the Curse of the Wulfen and those afflicted did not manifest the additional hair, snout or claws typical of those who completely fall to the curse.

 

Really the only indication we have of anyone completely falling to the curse and degenerating into a slavering monster ripping enemies apart with their bare claws one minute and returning to normal the next is Bran Redmaw. For the most part though it seems to be a permanent, irreversible devolution.

[maverik_girl]

Regarding fluff, the codex was a missed opportunity.

 

Also completely off topic here but does anyone else think the new rogue trader minis can count-as House Belisarius. The minis have a panther/wolf head sigil that can pass off for the navis nobilite. Wolf Blades marines with them

[Karhedron]

Most of the 8th edition codices have been pretty light on fluff with only titbits hinting at events after the Fall of Cadia. I think that GW are increasingly using BL novels rather than codices to drive the narrative forwards.

[Jackalwolf]

Regarding fluff, the codex was a missed opportunity.

 

Also completely off topic here but does anyone else think the new rogue trader minis can count-as House Belisarius. The minis have a panther/wolf head sigil that can pass off for the navis nobilite. Wolf Blades marines with them

100% yes and please post your progress in that project, looking forward to seeing it!

[Vash113]

Also completely off topic here but does anyone else think the new rogue trader minis can count-as House Belisarius. The minis have a panther/wolf head sigil that can pass off for the navis nobilite. Wolf Blades marines with them

 

Sure that would work. I plan to use them as pilots for my wolf-knights and I also think they could be used as Custodian armsmen, Inquisitorial retinue and so on and so forth. They're really characterful sculpts and the little animal symbols are awesome as well. The armsmen squad has wolf-heads, the Rogue Trader has a panther, the medic has a unicorn and the Tech Priest has a raven.

[Stoic Raptor]

I think that GW are increasingly using BL novels rather than codices to drive the narrative forwards.

 

In that case, codices are becoming increasingly more useless.  Without meaningful lore and history, they're a pretty transparent attempt to continue to charge us for the rules to use the models we already buy.  Even that practice is becoming more rare.

[Vash113]

In that case, codices are becoming increasingly more useless.  Without meaningful lore and history, they're a pretty transparent attempt to continue to charge us for the rules to use the models we already buy.  Even that practice is becoming more rare.

 

I don't really recall codexes ever being used to significantly move the narrative forward (cept maybe for the Tau...), that was (and still seems to be) the domain of narrative campaign expansions, the 3rd War for Armageddon, the 13th Black Crusade, Curse of the Wulfen and Fall of Cadia come to mind.

 

That does not mean there won't be more interesting fluff in the codexies going forward, I think a big part of the relatively bland nature of the current books is that they were released at breakneck pace to get a new book out for pretty much every faction within a single calendar year, I'd expect next year we will start to see book releases slow down and the material within them, and the releases that go with them, become more substantial and who knows what GW is going to do with these little mini-dexes they've just announced starting with the Elucidian Starstriders and the Gellerpox Infected. Not to mention all the little tidbits about Fulgrim and Russ and the rumors of a new narrative campaign coming.

 

At this point I think it's a matter of waiting to see what GW does next. A lot of people are expecting a new Codex Space Marines early next year with more Primaris releases and if that book does indeed appear it may well kick off some interesting fluff progressions about the Indomitus Crusade and the Ultima Founding, we'll just have to wait and see.

 

Aside from new books lets not forget that the upcoming BFG 2 is set after the Fall of Cadia and will likely move the narrative forward. Some of the more recent BL releases have added details but not much all things considered, just some bits here and there in War of Secrets, Lords of Silence and a few others. The biggest lore changes have been in the campaign books and that's where I expect they will continue to be.

[Stoic Raptor]

The point I'm trying to make is, if the only fluff a Codex contains is stuff I already knew from all the previous editions, I'm essentially paying for the datasheets.  That seems disingenuous - and if that's what it's all about, just sell me a mini rulebook and a pamphlet with the datasheets for each faction.  Save me a little bit of money and more weight in my bag, thanks.

[Vash113]

The point I'm trying to make is, if the only fluff a Codex contains is stuff I already knew from all the previous editions, I'm essentially paying for the datasheets.  That seems disingenuous - and if that's what it's all about, just sell me a mini rulebook and a pamphlet with the datasheets for each faction.  Save me a little bit of money and more weight in my bag, thanks.

 

Well like I said I don't think anyone ever suggested that Codexies were going to be a major source of new or expanded fluff, it's essentially there for the new players to get introduced to the army and miniatures range with the various background and pics. I mean honestly a good deal of the codex fluff is really no different than stuff back in the 3rd edition mini codex, other material has been largely the same for three books now. I can understand veteran players don't need that intro material and might be better served just with the data sheets and maybe there is a market for rules only digital codexies that are cheaper and appeal to the vet market, after all the core rules come in little mini pamphlets these days.

 

However I very much doubt GW wants to stock two copies of physical codexies in the store or risk cash-strapped new players from skipping the full codex for the digital and missing out on the fluff, artwork and painted minis that might help inspire and retain that customer long-term.

 

Honestly the new codex wouldn't be disappointing if we hadn't gone through the Fall of Cadia, it's well in line with some new snippets, artwork and details as the last couple dexes.