Space Wolf Scouts

[sturguard]

Hey folks,

I know they aren't optimal but I am using my scouts and need to outfit them so they are legal (and lethal). 

 

I dont have the codex yet and I have a few models to finish up before I call it quits.

 

So I want to try and get as many plasma/melta in 2 squads including pack leaders/wg etc.

 

If I remember correctly I can do this-

 

Pack leader with combiplasma

1 scout with plasmagun

2 scouts with plasma pistol

1 bolt pistol scout (maybe I have to have 2 of them)

Is there anyway to make this squad more lethal?

 

My remaining scouts that I would like to make into another squad would include (or I can add a few to the first squad)

1 pack leader combimelta scout

1 melta scout

1 flamer scout

3 bolt pistol scouts

1 power axe scout (he could just be another bolt pistol guy)

 

I also have 1 plasma pistol scout unpainted (if need be I could feebay another plasma pistol scout)

 

Thoughts?

 

[sturguard]

Or with a bit of hand swaps I could do this for the second squad-

 

pack leader with combiplasma

scout with meltagun

2 scouts with pp

1 bolt pistol scout

[TiguriusX]

Step 1 is determining if you are using codex scouts or index scouts (there is a meta discussion on the merits of this)

 

Codex scouts you can have the following plasma heavy squad:

1 scout can have a plasma gun

1 scout can take a plasma pistol

PL can take a plasma pistol

WGPL can take a combi plasma

 

That gives you 6 plasma shots up to 12" after an outflank

[PeteySödes]

I’ll be trying 5 with shottys in a storm today. Plan is obj camping and character harassing if they get complacent about bubble wrap.

[sturguard]

I would just be using codex scouts TiguriusX.

 

So I could also then have

1 scout with meltagun

1 scout with pp

1 PL with pp

1 wg with combimelta

 

correct?

How many points is the plasma scout squad you posted? In the index the scouts were cheap.

[TiguriusX]

I would just be using codex scouts TiguriusX.

 

So I could also then have

1 scout with meltagun

1 scout with pp

1 PL with pp

1 wg with combimelta

 

correct?

How many points is the plasma scout squad you posted? In the index the scouts were cheap.

 

Your melta/PP squad looks to be approx. 121 points

1 wolf guard pack leader with combi melta

1 wolf scout pack leader with PP 

1 melta scout

1 PP scout

2x basic scouts

[M.Redbeard]

My two ideas for scouts are as follows.

 

Assault Scouts

 

WGPL with Combi-melta

WS with melta

Rest with Astartes Shotgun

 

The idea is to make a mobike force ans have wounds before getting to the meltas. Do not recommend getting the melta mixing with the plasma.pistol as the optimal ranges are different and one can advance and shoot and one can't. If you want a kore antihorde approach, change meltas for flamer. More mobile with a LS Storm.

 

Plasma Scouts

 

WGBL combi plasma

WSPL plasma pistol

WS plasma gun

WS plasma pistol

WS with boltguns

 

Plasma bomb that Tigurius mentioned. Nice amount of shots amd can come in with range. Boltguns over Shotguns due to effective range. A chepaer way of getting plasma shots than GH and one more to boot.

 

The last option Inliked was posted here.

 

WGBPL with TH and SS

WSPL with TH

WS with TH

WS with Combat Knifes

 

The assault Scouts. The TH are from the index but so far legal to use (it is actually the only difference in the sheets as far as I am aware). A fun way to play them, amd am unespected amount th TH strikes. Will probably not be brutal, will need a LS Storm to reach but seems like a nice surpirse and character killer.

 

Those are the ideas I've been toying around with

[SW1]

How can we use index when the codex has replaced the unit entry?

[M.Redbeard]

So far we may. There is a fundamented fear that Index options might dissapear in the future, but so far you can follow this flow chart to know what you can do.

 

Per that we use the Codex version of the datasheet but can still add Index wargear to Wolf Scouts.

[SW1]

Thought that was meant to be used so the change in rules doesn't nerf existing collections rather than allowing cherry picking options from multiple versions of rules for new models?

[SW1]

Lol ... Forget it it doesn't matter what it's intension was it's a loophole so will be used.

[TiguriusX]

Thought that was meant to be used so the change in rules doesn't nerf existing collections rather than allowing cherry picking options from multiple versions of rules for new models?

That is the meta discussion right now

 

I personally am not touching the index anymore (sheds a tear for the WG bikers painted during ETL)

[Wulf Vengis]

This sounds a lot like cheating to me. Mixing the rules for a single unit between two books in order to build the unit how you want. Flow chart or not it's breaking the spirit of good sportsmanship. Either choose that unit from the index completely or the codex completely. It may be legal but it sure feels/sounds illegal.

[M.Redbeard]

I understand why some poeple do not like to use the index versions. I respect it. But here you are hardly mix and matching. You are literally using the option provided by GW to use it (and personally since I do not understand the nerf to Wolf Scouts I am 100% with using the Index wargear options) I do not think is cheating in a any way. More so, because the only difference between Index and Wolf Scouts is that the melee weapons were lost. You are using Codex costs as indicated.

 

I do hope that we keep the Index options. The argument that the removal of WG on bikes being because there are no models sold for them, I really do not like (more so becuase there are a options not supported by the boxes, like Wolf Priest that we still get). And I enjoy my bike HQs. They were one of my first converssions and I have a certain amount of fondness for them.

[VIth]

There’s no reason to use Index entires for units in the Codex, IMHO, and I would highly recommend people not get too emotionally invested in weird/wonky Index rules which have since been refined by the Codex. It’s one thing to play Index Rough Riders since they were “squatted,” but there’s no reason you should be able to use an Index entry when a Codex entry for the same unit existing in the Codex. And again, I would highly recommend not getting attached to an Index entry because they’ll almost certainly become obsolete rules and then everyone will complain about how GW is unfair for taking away their unprecented-before-or-since option for Wolf Scouts to randomly have a bunch of Thunder Hammers.

[M.Redbeard]

Why I'd take the Index Wolf Scouts? Because of the fluff. Not only the Codex was an uneeded nerf but I can't stand the idea that a vanilla Scout Sergeant gets more options and can get a TH and veteran cunning Wolf Scouts can't. I absolutely hate that fluff and see no real reason for the change, in fluff or crunch. If I get to run them I won't get attached, as I am aware they might be removed, but the change I highly disagree with. And if the change is legal according to GW I prefer to run what I feel is not only a better option in the tabletop, but one that makes sense in the fluff.

[VIth]

I’ve never read anything, seen any art (fan or official), or recall any rules from previous editions which allow Wolf Scouts to wield Thunder Hammers. Totally agree they should be better than SM Scouts, but that shouldn’t take the form of randomly allowing a light harassment unit to include up to three Thunder Hammers. I’m guessing we’ll have to agree to disagree.

[M.Redbeard]

Well we'll agree to disagree, but my reasoning is a such for me.

 

While I agree there is no fluff explicitly atating that they can (I actually recall very little fluff in heneral discussing the Wolf Scouts), allowing them to use weapons from the melee list added to their veteran status. While they don't have access to the praised Combiweapons they could take a few of the same melee ootions as Wolf Guard showed that they were experienced fighters amd respected enough to get access to a higher tier of weaponry.

 

As them.being harrasment units, the Hammers are noore difficult to carry tham the Snipers nor are they more noisy than Shotguns or Bolters. And they are pretty useful, since it would allow sabotage of larger wrapoms or better chances of murdering an enemy leader, as well as complimenting assault tactics. Access in general to melee weapons woukd make sense to ambush and silently kill enemies.

 

And since Scout Seargents get access to them, less reason for the veterams to be unable to wield them, since by that prescedent, they don't need a full armour to be wielded.

 

Right now a veteran Wolf Scout Seargent gets worse equioment than a Blood Claw Pack Leader in terms of melee. Veteran packs get the same access as the Claws amd the Grey Hunters, except for a couple of Heavy Weapons. They simply show almost nothing that they are survivours or experienced warriors (since every Infantry of our army can get OBEL for a CP), a single Heavy Weapon (that can't be taken with the Special Weapon) and a single extra Power Sword or Power Axe. It is ridiculous.

 

And they also get less than neophyte Scouts in terms of melee, due to their Seargents getting Power Fists and Power Mauls.

 

It is not even them being better than Scouts, it is just a way to sjow that they are veterans. I don't even think they are that strong with the Hammers, a cool tactic, but without Concealed Positions to get a T1 charge and forced from T2 to make a 9" charge or dedicate a transport for them, as well as being limited because of the rule of 3 most people have adopted, meams I actually think it is far from optimal. but it is cool and I like the ingenuity in thinking them.of that way, since before the most I thought was giving them Frost Swords for better combat prowess.

 

It just bothers me that they are so limited in so many ways. And removing and option that made themmfeel more like veterams goes against my head cannon.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Sorry guys, just came into the discussion. If I may divert your attention to something more positive, you should all know that the Land Speeder Storm is now available to the Wolf Scouts. And like the wolf Scouts, they can also outflank. Therefore I think it is fully viable to stuff a 5 man team of scouts armed with as many plasma as they can, and since it has open topped like rules, we can fire our plasma scouts from relative safety, adding a heavy bolter and cerberus launcher with it.

 

The caveat of course is that by adding a Wolf Guard Pack leader, the number goes up to 6 and therefore cannot ride in the storm.

 

I still like the idea of putting at least 3 plasma shots (plasma gun and 2 plama pistols in 5 man?) protected by a vehicle in the opponent's backside. Also it gives me an excuse to get the superb model that is the land speeder storm which is cool by its own right.

 

Just remember guys, Scouts, whether neophytes or veterans, aren't expected to pull miracles, they run interference. So there is no need to arms a scout with a hammer or fist. Keep them cheap and annoying I say. A Storm is about 90 points with heavy bolter, which isn't bad. You're not going to aim it at a deathstar anway, you want to harrass.

 

Also a cheap way to get Hellfire Rounds at someone's behind.

[hammer grimblood]

If I recall correctly, the Storm also has Behind Enemy Lines which means your 5 man plasma squad can pop right up in your opponent’s back field. It adds some durability to your scouts.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

While I agree the storm is good I do feel that elite units should be able to stand on their own without having to use another unit to make them somewhat useful.

[PeteySödes]

The 5 scouts with shotguns in a storm is pretty nice against people who are using troop in min squads for tax and obj camping. The storm was a tad more durable than I expected, standing up against a lot of shuriken shots the turn i buzzed them. I'm for sure going to try this loadout again, cheap and useful.

[TiguriusX]

The 5 scouts with shotguns in a storm is pretty nice against people who are using troop in min squads for tax and obj camping. The storm was a tad more durable than I expected, standing up against a lot of shuriken shots the turn i buzzed them. I'm for sure going to try this loadout again, cheap and useful.

Have you tested wolf scout bikers?

 

T5 and 2 wounds

6 shots out to 12" per model (easy with outflank)

 

Potentially cheaper than scouts + storm if going msu chaff hunting

[PeteySödes]

 

The 5 scouts with shotguns in a storm is pretty nice against people who are using troop in min squads for tax and obj camping. The storm was a tad more durable than I expected, standing up against a lot of shuriken shots the turn i buzzed them. I'm for sure going to try this loadout again, cheap and useful.

Have you tested wolf scout bikers?

 

T5 and 2 wounds

6 shots out to 12" per model (easy with outflank)

 

Potentially cheaper than scouts + storm if going msu chaff hunting

 

 

Not yet, I've stayed away from bikes largely since the models are poison to me. :D

[Axilleas]

 

The 5 scouts with shotguns in a storm is pretty nice against people who are using troop in min squads for tax and obj camping. The storm was a tad more durable than I expected, standing up against a lot of shuriken shots the turn i buzzed them. I'm for sure going to try this loadout again, cheap and useful.

Have you tested wolf scout bikers?

 

T5 and 2 wounds

6 shots out to 12" per model (easy with outflank)

 

Potentially cheaper than scouts + storm if going msu chaff hunting

I'm planning on using a 3 man scout biker squad equipped with 2 of the grenade launchers and leader w/ shotgun. I think it will be a good turn 3 obj grabber that can hide and or boost around the board removing msu/weakened units off objectives. That's the theory at least, we'll see how it works out in practice.