C:SW 8th Ed.: Unit Purpose and Mission Hypotheses

[Jackalwolf]

 

 

Hey guys so made a new list with more boots on the ground to have field control:

 

- 2x 8 GH with plasma and leader with axe

- 1x 5 BC and leader with power fist

- Bjorn

 

- Spartan with 2x WG cataphractii, Arjac and rune priest with the armour or Russ or the wulfen stone

 

- 7 wulfen outflanking, 4TH, 1 axe

 

Thoughts? It's meant to represent ashes of Prospero. In games over 2000 the blood claws will be led by Lukas and I'll add also Njal so all the characters are there!

That honestly sounds rather solid, at least, without knowing the full details of your unit composition.

 

What do the two WG Cataphractii have, as far as individual kit goes? With Arcjac, a Rune Priest in a PA equivalent armor, that leaves 22 PA slots, or 11 TDA slots left to fill. I'm just curious about your individual loadouts, and what purpose each of the two packs will serve, if separate missions are intended.

 

As far as the overall force goes, the only thing you might consider is twin Lascannon on Bjorn, if points allow. Ranged heavy fire support is your only potential weakness. However, that typed, you seem to have a pretty solid Troops base, with the ability to tarpit and bring to heel just about any tank, overall.

Thanks man! I'll buy a lascannon to magnetise to Bjorn.

 

The WG cataphractii are a bit limited by their options:

- Thegn with storm bolter and power sword

- 3x dual claws

- 1x claw + chain fist

[Kasper_Hawser]

When it comes to Cataphractii, I think we just have to go with rule of cool over crunch. They do make more imposing figures. Equipping them with power fists will make good use of Hunters Unleashed. I just don't know why they and Tartaros for the love of God can't get access to Frost weaponry. Thankfully the Cataphractii Wolf Lord can. but for such a bomb a wolf priest is better since you are not doing much shooting anyway for Cataphractii.

[Karack Blackstone]

I seriously wish GW would remember that kitbashing is always an option, and at times, a great one.

 

If they remembered that there can be some swap out between the TDA types, especially the arms and weapons, I think this matter could be very easily addressed.

 

The problem is getting that far; still, might be worth discussing as a general topic that, in time, GW consider allowing kitbash options, and which ones.

[Karack Blackstone]

Here's some of my bread and butter, or, core default elements of any list, with an update I need to model up.

 

Grey Hunters

6 GH's, BG, BP, CS

2 GH's, PG, BP, CS

1 GHPL, BG, BP, PF

1 WGPL, BP, SS

Rhino with 1 SB

 

Blood Claws

12 BC's, BP, CS

1 BCPL, BP, CS

1 WGPL, BP, PF

1 WGBL, BP, CS

1 WP, BP, CA

Either Stormwolf or Land Raider Crusader, to taste and element choice in support

 

While not ideal, likely, here's my current default for Wulfen, if I remember correctly.

 

Wulfen

1 WPL, FC's

5 W, TH, SS

2 W, FC's

Either Stormwolf or LRC, to support a BC pack as above on each side, in the same ride. So, three Land Raider Crusaders roll up, the two on the outside drop off BC packs per above, and the center one delivers the Wulfen. On shooting, fire BP's from the BC packs, at something, pray it lives, I guess? Is shooting an option? If and hopefully whatever survives, the Wulfen declare the first charge, because with their SS's they should be pretty able to tank the first OW from their charge. Then, the two BC packs roll in.

 

As another element, or at least, what I plan for, might still need to change.

 

2 TWC Packs,

4 TWC each, 8 total TWC, all with SS/FA

1 WGBL on TW, with TH/SS

 

In escort right behind the TWC shield wall hunts this pack below.

 

14 Skyclaws, BP, CS

1 SCPL, BP, CS

1 WGSL, BP, CS currently

1 WGBL with JP, BP, CS

1 WP with JP, BP, CA

 

So, again, my master list is high points value, it clocks in at a full 30,000 points, even in 8th Ed. However, the point of this thread is to try and generate list ideas, elements worth your consideration overall, both for me and everyone else that plays Wolves.

 

By all means, please post yours!

[FabulousRex]

I'm resurrecting my old 13th company Infantry force. While put of date, Grey Slayers work out to GH pretty much. My idea is to have no support, all teeth. Target saturation of too many threats.

 

Also, I have 15 old metal Wulfen, so I'ld like to lean on them alot. :)

 

Can all footslogging work? Would primaris help or hinder?

[Karack Blackstone]

Footslogging CAN work, the problem is as always MAKING one's plan work. The translation from theory to practice is as always the hard part. Welcome to life, in that regard.

 

As far as footslogging, if you're going to go all out footslog, you would be hard pressed to not benefit from Primaris in your force. The rub, as hinted at above, is getting the most out of every single model that you can before you have to pull it due to damage taken.

 

The single most difficult thing about WH40K and most war in general is the concept I have touched on before: active triage. Basically, while hemorraging warfighters slowly, surely and occasionally in droves, the cost in life must be either met or exceeded in terms of the overall mission getting closer to done. If a fight lasts long enough, even the most robust and capable of warfighters might lose heart and break from a fight.

 

Don't get me wrong, Astartes are great; the problem is the inability to accurately show this in the Morale phase. Still, as the CA 2018 should address this, Primaris will only aid you.

 

The hard part will be getting enough out of your said Primaris to make them a worthwhile addition to your force, in place of other units.

 

Simply put, give each Primaris pack a purpose; be it allrounder, or a specific role, such as Intercessors with Bolt Rifles as oversized and up-gunned Grey Hunters, or, Hellblasters with the light firesupport role, or, anti infantry and decent anti heavy infantry as a best anti enemy unit type role...

 

Just give each pack in your force a mission profile, and if need be, a mission profile range. Also, you're going to take casualties; make the most of the mission by only sacrificing the models you must to further the mission. If the game somehow results in you tabled and the final turn roll says no more turns, you just won. You win the game.

[FabulousRex]

Aggressors look particularly tempting, advancing side by side with Wulfen. Fluff wise, inceptors were the first pack to fall to the curse.

 

Might try a big 10 man Intercessor squad and outflank anything with 1 wound base, fenrisian wolves aside.

[FabulousRex]

How about old school Blood claw spam? Wolf lord on big base TW within range of 3 16 man unupgraded BCs, use t4 3+ as board control with multiple large units. Saga of Magesty, Wulfen stone, and the fearless wolf lord howl plus Njal packing defensive buffs. Wgbl with jp and armor of Russ to counter attack. It's only 1025 points for a battalion packing 48 fearless t4 2+ armor -1 to hit. Use the generic counter charge stratagem to interrupt a huge buffed squad with your hqs.

[TiguriusX]

counter charging (i.e., heroic intervention) was nerfed in the recent FAQ

 

jump packs dont "fly" unless it is the movement phase now

 

it us now much harder to engage from behind your screen

 

also forget the stratagem and invest in the armor of russ relic instead....end result is all your combatants strike before a single unit

[Kallas]

counter charging (i.e., heroic intervention) was nerfed in the recent FAQ

 

jump packs dont "fly" unless it is the movement phase now

 

it us now much harder to engage from behind your screen

 

also forget the stratagem and invest in the armor of russ relic instead....end result is all your combatants strike before a single unit

The FLY nerf is stupid. Changing the 0" charge is fine, but the non-movement non-function of FLY is dumb!

 

As for counter attacking, the Armour of Russ is utterly brilliant, but you may still have a variety of things in melee (and considering we're talking Space Wolves, there's a good chance that is the case). AoR locks down one threat, a second unit gets hit first and then a third unit can interrupt to attack before your opponent's second; it's not always going to be useful, but the stratagem is worth keeping in mind.

 

But every list should have the Armour of Russ!

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

How was counter charging nerfed? I may have missed it but I didn't see a need to counter charge in the FAQ.

[Kallas]

How was counter charging nerfed? I may have missed it but I didn't see a need to counter charge in the FAQ.

TiguriusX is talking about Heroic Intervention (ie, characters moving when enemy units are nearby in their Charge Phase). It got hurt for Jump Pack characters by the FLY change making FLY only function in the Movement Phase.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Ah ok makes sense. Haven't been a big jump pack user so I missed the impact.

[Karack Blackstone]

How about old school Blood claw spam? Wolf lord on big base TW within range of 3 16 man unupgraded BCs, use t4 3+ as board control with multiple large units. Saga of Magesty, Wulfen stone, and the fearless wolf lord howl plus Njal packing defensive buffs. Wgbl with jp and armor of Russ to counter attack. It's only 1025 points for a battalion packing 48 fearless t4 2+ armor -1 to hit. Use the generic counter charge stratagem to interrupt a huge buffed squad with your hqs.

 

While rides are expensive, the LRC and Stormwolf being nearly ridiculously so, just go with the rest of your default standard 2,000 points being used to provide nice, big, high threat value targets, such as Dreadnoughts to taste, Predators, Vindicators, Whirlwinds, Stormhawks which should really shine in the ground attack role, let alone as a dogfighter.

 

If you have 1,025 points of Troops, the rest, 975, will need to be stuff threatening enough to draw fire away from the squishy yet still buffed 3+ base save PA models that comprise the bulk of your table threat value. I would wonder if a to taste Grey Hunter pack or two would aid as well; just be sure that you as a player have enough high value targets to draw fire.

[Kallas]

While rides are expensive, the LRC and Stormwolf being nearly ridiculously so, just go with the rest of your default standard 2,000 points being used to provide nice, big, high threat value targets, such as Dreadnoughts to taste, Predators, Vindicators, Whirlwinds, Stormhawks which should really shine in the ground attack role, let alone as a dogfighter.

 

If you have 1,025 points of Troops, the rest, 975, will need to be stuff threatening enough to draw fire away from the squishy yet still buffed 3+ base save PA models that comprise the bulk of your table threat value. I would wonder if a to taste Grey Hunter pack or two would aid as well; just be sure that you as a player have enough high value targets to draw fire.

 

One thing to consider is what the enemy has. If you're bringing 40+ Blood Claws to run across the table, threat saturation should involve bringing things that have a similar defensive profile to them: Long Fangs and Wulfen for anti-tank, for example.

 

If you have 40 Blood Claws and 4 Dreadnoughts, then your opponent has the ability to split fire their anti-tank weapons at your Dreadnoughts; if you've got three units of Long Fangs, instead, then their anti-tank firepower is somewhat wasted going into Long Fangs.

 

Edit: not to harp on about it too much, but the list I'm running (Rhinos/Razorbacks with basic Grey Hunters inside) is a similar process, where they have to crack open the transports first, wasting their early anti-infantry firepower. If I ran untransported Wulfen, for example, alongside them, they'd be a prime candidate for all of those wasted shots.

 

In my latest game against Necrons, all of his T1 Tesla fire was utterly worthless; and T2 he didn't get to shoot my Grey Hunters all that much either.

[Karack Blackstone]

 

While rides are expensive, the LRC and Stormwolf being nearly ridiculously so, just go with the rest of your default standard 2,000 points being used to provide nice, big, high threat value targets, such as Dreadnoughts to taste, Predators, Vindicators, Whirlwinds, Stormhawks which should really shine in the ground attack role, let alone as a dogfighter.

 

If you have 1,025 points of Troops, the rest, 975, will need to be stuff threatening enough to draw fire away from the squishy yet still buffed 3+ base save PA models that comprise the bulk of your table threat value. I would wonder if a to taste Grey Hunter pack or two would aid as well; just be sure that you as a player have enough high value targets to draw fire.

 

One thing to consider is what the enemy has. If you're bringing 40+ Blood Claws to run across the table, threat saturation should involve bringing things that have a similar defensive profile to them: Long Fangs and Wulfen for anti-tank, for example.

 

If you have 40 Blood Claws and 4 Dreadnoughts, then your opponent has the ability to split fire their anti-tank weapons at your Dreadnoughts; if you've got three units of Long Fangs, instead, then their anti-tank firepower is somewhat wasted going into Long Fangs.

 

 

True.

 

I'm likely still remembering the older edition shooting profiles, as in 8th, the utter lack of proper type threats to shoot at for some weapons is another strength.

 

Yea, go with Long Fangs, Wolf Guard, maybe a drop and chop WG PA pack with Combi-Meltas or Combi-Plasmas and possibly Frost Axes. The melee weapon might be better off being Thunder Hammers. Still, seems a pretty solid idea there.

[FabulousRex]

I'm actually thinking about things like Aggressors and Hellblasters sprinkled in to screw up targeting priority. Nothing super expensive except Wulfen, who rock!

[FabulousRex]

Also, good call on Grey Hunters, Karack. One 11 man triple plasma and chainsword pack can provide you good midfield presence, running just Behind the hq bundle.

 

Njal, TW Lord SS/TH, 2 16 strong Blood Claws with 2 powerfists, and an 11 man Grey hunter squad with triple plasma is only... 949pts... Still has 43 PA troops on the ground.

[Karhedron]

I'm resurrecting my old 13th company Infantry force. While put of date, Grey Slayers work out to GH pretty much. My idea is to have no support, all teeth. Target saturation of too many threats.

 

Also, I have 15 old metal Wulfen, so I'ld like to lean on them alot.

 

Can all footslogging work? Would primaris help or hinder?

I have been running an all-infantry Blood Angels force for quite a while with some success so I am pretty sure Wolves can do it too. I means that most of your opponent's heavy weapons are overkill. Just try not to spoil the effect by taking expensive, multi-wound infantry models that effectively provide a viable target for them again (I probably wouldn't run TWC in such a list for a example as they just become the magnet for heavy weapons and you lose the benefit of threat saturation which an all-infantry list van provide).

 

What you need to consider is how you handle mobility. There will be times when you need to get stuff across the table fast to deal with threats. BAs have plenty of jump pack units and I think that the same approach will suit Wolves well too.

 

I quite like Primaris and I feel they fit well in an all-infantry list as well as providing answers to some of the problems you will face. Inceptors provide great mobile fire-power for example. Intercessors are like Grey Hunters with better guns and 2 wounds. As always, make sure you have the tools to handle a variety of threats, the mobility to bring those tools to bear, the bodies to hold objectives and the ability to deny your opponent easy choices.

[FabulousRex]

I think speed is less important than board control for Wolves. Plop 40 angry Troops on the objectives, and send the Wulfen and Aggressors to hunt. Back up with Long Fangs, and you have excellent target saturation for your opponent.

[PeteySödes]

I think speed is less important than board control for Wolves. Plop 40 angry Troops on the objectives, and send the Wulfen and Aggressors to hunt. Back up with Long Fangs, and you have excellent target saturation for your opponent.

 

I agree, theres so many armies that can field stuff thats faster than us. I've always preferred to try to position correctly and use our hard hitters (lucius dreads, wulfen, etc) to make them flinch.

[FabulousRex]

Something like this list as a base for my army... 1500pts

--

W.Lord w/JP, TH/SS, Wulfen stone, Saga of the Wolfkin

 

W. Priest w/ JP, PF

 

Njal in power armor

--

15 man blood claws with 2 powerfists

 

6 man double plasma grey hunters

 

10 Intercessors

--

3 bolter Aggressors

 

6 Wulfen w/ 4 TH/SS

 

8 Wulfen w/ no upgrades

 

 

Add Hellblasters and long fangs to get to 2000pts. Maybe a couple of fenrisian wolves to catch smites.