Sigismund's Curse Upon Abaddon

[b1soul]

Sig's last words to Abby:

 

Instead, the ruined thing that had been First Captain of the Imperial Fists and High Marshal of the Black Templars spoke through a mouthful of blood, committing the last of his life to biting off each word, ensuring he spoke each one in shivering, sanguine clarity.

‘You will die as your weakling father died. Soulless. Honourless. Weeping. Ashamed.’

Sigismund’s last word was also his last breath. It sighed out of his mouth, taking his soul with it.

 

Could this plausibly come to pass for Abbadon? Maybe it was just an impotent curse or maybe, at death's door, Sig saw a glimpse of the future.

 

Do you think Abaddon's own death would make narrative sense in a Dark Imperium where the Daemon Primarchs, perhaps some loyal sons and other forces are stirring?

 

Some say Sig's send off was a grimdark but worhy end to his journey...what death, if any, would be worthy of the Black Legion's master?

[Kastor Krieg]

He meets the Emperor face to face, either a manifestation or he makes it to the feet of the Golden Throne, where the Emperor speaks to him, as a stern father would and then offers to consume his Chaos power-laden soul, like He does with the psykers that are brought to Him, so that the best son of his best son, Abaddon, does not fall prey to the Warp.

Crushed by shame, weeping in gratitude for the mercy and finding himself at the feet of the one God he would in fact submit to, Abaddon agrees and dies as a soulless husk.

 

In turn, restored with the power of the Four consumed, the Emperor walks the galaxy again.

[Marshal Loss]

It's pretty clearly just a last gesture of defiance. There's nothing to indicate Sigismund had a glimpse of the future. This is Sigismund expressing his defiance through what he believes is certainty - his faith, his zeal - that the Imperium will endure, and Abaddon will fail as his father did.

 

And no, Abaddon's death would not make any narrative sense in this new Dark Imperium; new books (e.g. Lords of Silence) make it very clear that there is a significant difference between the returned Primarchs and the Despoiler in terms of their ambitions. Abaddon still has his niche as the prosecutor of the long war and the man who wants to return to Terra. The setting needs him.

 

As for a death worthy of the Warmaster; I can't really think of anything. Being essentially the antichrist of 40k, some kind of biblical parallel might work. I'll think on it.

[b1soul]

@ Marshal

 

"It's pretty clearly just a last gesture of defiance. There's nothing to indicate Sigismund had a glimpse of the future. This is Sigismund expressing his defiance through what he believes is certainty - his faith, his zeal - that the Imperium will endure, and Abaddon will fail as his father did."

 

That is a reasonable interpretation

 

@ Reclusiarch

 

That's a good one

[Chapter Master Valrak]

Sigis last sentence was the most badass line I've ever heard, I need a book dedicated to this legend.

[Sete]

On last burn before he went. I think that one bit deeper than the sword.

New 8th edition lore stats that the Emperor Champion is half possessed by a vengeance given life. Interpret that as you will, but could the Emperor save some of Sigismund soul?

After all Celestine resurrects due to the power of the Emperor...

[Marshal Rohr]

I think Sigismund just knew what to say to cause Abaddon a moment of self-doubt. It’s not a precognition or even that astute an observation. It’s the final curse of the last embodiment of the Great Crusade. I like the idea that even as Abaddon grows in strength and power when he thinks about what Sigismund said he gets a moment of panic that he is a phony and being used by the Gods. I also like the idea that he takes it as motivation to not be used by the Gods when he feels temptation.

[Calas Typhon]

Its just a curse to his killer before he dies. Did not particularly read it as anything but that.

 

Astartes are not exactly the types to go out quietly, doubt that a Templar would do it.

[JH79]

I think Sigismund’s last words & death will affect Abaddon in many ways, but that is something very much tied to the version of him we’ve seen in ADB’s Black Legion books. Abaddon sounded almost happy to see Sigismund when the Black Legion escaped the Eye of Terra and killing him, while entirely necessary at the time, could have been something he did begrudgingly. Hopefully this is covered in the next Black Legion book.

 

I would assume the 40k Warmaster (does anyone know how old he is given Warp time differences?) rarely thinks back to what could be perceived as an inconsequential moment in history. If he’s close to say 2000 years old you’ve got to try and imagine what that would do to your mind, simply living that long. Moments in my life that seemed monumentally important 20 years ago are quite pathetic in comparison to present day moments of significance. I would assume the same would be true in another 20 years.

 

As for how to kill the Warmaster… while I would love to see Abaddon skinned alive by Dante while Roboute slowly dismembers him with the Emperors Sword, it’s just not even remotely feasible. Maybe something akin to the ascension of the Emperor might work...

[Sandlemad]

I think Sigismund just knew what to say to cause Abaddon a moment of self-doubt. It’s not a precognition or even that astute an observation. It’s the final curse of the last embodiment of the Great Crusade.

 

Now that you mention it, it's surprisingly biting for Sigismund, even if as you say it's not that astute. For a knight as stoic as he was - as we saw about a chapter earlier over the Vengeful Spirit's viewing screen in the face of a howling mob of Abaddon's officers - it's a very calculated, vicious insult tailored to Abaddon. Maybe not petty or spiteful as such but I wouldn't have thought Sigismund had it in him.

[Medjugorje]

Sig's last words to Abby:

 

Instead, the ruined thing that had been First Captain of the Imperial Fists and High Marshal of the Black Templars spoke through a mouthful of blood, committing the last of his life to biting off each word, ensuring he spoke each one in shivering, sanguine clarity.

‘You will die as your weakling father died. Soulless. Honourless. Weeping. Ashamed.’

Sigismund’s last word was also his last breath. It sighed out of his mouth, taking his soul with it.

 

Could this plausibly come to pass for Abbadon? Maybe it was just an impotent curse or maybe, at death's door, Sig saw a glimpse of the future.

 

Do you think Abaddon's own death would make narrative sense in a Dark Imperium where the Daemon Primarchs, perhaps some loyal sons and other forces are stirring?

 

Some say Sig's send off was a grimdark but worhy end to his journey...what death, if any, would be worthy of the Black Legion's master?

 

Emperors Champion always getting a vision right? Maybe Sigi saw more then others?

 

[Marshal Rohr]

I think Sigismund’s last words & death will affect Abaddon in many ways, but that is something very much tied to the version of him we’ve seen in ADB’s Black Legion books. Abaddon sounded almost happy to see Sigismund when the Black Legion escaped the Eye of Terra and killing him, while entirely necessary at the time, could have been something he did begrudgingly. Hopefully this is covered in the next Black Legion book.

 

I would assume the 40k Warmaster (does anyone know how old he is given Warp time differences?) rarely thinks back to what could be perceived as an inconsequential moment in history. If he’s close to say 2000 years old you’ve got to try and imagine what that would do to your mind, simply living that long. Moments in my life that seemed monumentally important 20 years ago are quite pathetic in comparison to present day moments of significance. I would assume the same would be true in another 20 years.

 

As for how to kill the Warmaster… while I would love to see Abaddon skinned alive by Dante while Roboute slowly dismembers him with the Emperors Sword, it’s just not even remotely feasible. Maybe something akin to the ascension of the Emperor might work...

I did really like the fact the Abaddon caught himself trying to explain himself. It made the relationship feel present without any exposition needed. People don’t explain themselves to people they don’t care about.

[bluntblade]

I think it would linger in Abaddon's mind. The last of the great Crusaders on the Loyalist side, there's plenty of significance there.

[Apothecary Vaddon]

 

I think Sigismund just knew what to say to cause Abaddon a moment of self-doubt. It’s not a precognition or even that astute an observation. It’s the final curse of the last embodiment of the Great Crusade.

 

Now that you mention it, it's surprisingly biting for Sigismund, even if as you say it's not that astute. For a knight as stoic as he was - as we saw about a chapter earlier over the Vengeful Spirit's viewing screen in the face of a howling mob of Abaddon's officers - it's a very calculated, vicious insult tailored to Abaddon. Maybe not petty or spiteful as such but I wouldn't have thought Sigismund had it in him.

 

For all those years, he wasn't just preparing for the return of the black legion....he was practicing his final words in his bathroom mirror. Put all that superhuman intellect to good use over that much time, and you're bound to come up with something badass...

[Fire Golem]

I think the Abaddon/Sigi sequence in the Black Legion is my favourite bit of any black library novel I’ve read. It was so well handled.

[Kastor Krieg]

I think the Abaddon/Sigi sequence in the Black Legion is my favourite bit of any black library novel I’ve read. It was so well handled.

That's ADB for ya.

[Scribe]

I think the Abaddon/Sigi sequence in the Black Legion is my favourite bit of any black library novel I’ve read. It was so well handled.

It says something about when two people, both exceptional, have completely opposed views.

 

A great piece indeed.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Without a doubt the best material ever produced by the Black Library. 

[Medjugorje]

yes

[b1soul]

Some of the best material, I'd say

[Lord_Caerolion]

Both were shown amazingly well, without either side coming out looking like chumps, which is such a common pitfall in 40k novels.

[mc warhammer]

you don’t even have to take his words literally. even if abaddon never dies and succeeds in his goals, he could become spiritually dead and broken.

[b1soul]

I would add that Sigismund's death was suitably grimdark, but Abaddon's death could be equally so.

 

Abaddon's game is to court the Great Powers without succumbing to any one of them. After 10,000 years, he finally breaks Cadia but is ultimately outplayed and eliminated by Chaos, dying a shattered husk of himself. Chaos then looks for its next pawn in the Endless Game.

 

I guess what I'm saying is...if Abaddon's story ever ends, I think a tragic ending would suit his arc and the setting (tragic for him, good for Chaos, and indirectly harmful to the Imperium).

 

@ Medjugorje

Is there any fluff concerning Emperor's Champs and prophetic visions...or is it more like Emp Champs tend to have visions of the Emperor speaking to them?

[Leif Bearclaw]

Both were shown amazingly well, without either side coming out looking like chumps, which is such a common pitfall in 40k novels.

Really? Because I've heard very schizo things about this. Quick disclaimer, haven't read the book (hate Abby and what they've been doing with him recently) hated the very idea of Abby killing Sigismyund when I first heard it, and nothing I've heard yet has ameliorated my distaste. I don't think it adds anything to Sigismund's story (actually detracting, making him ultimately a failure, see below) and is just feeding a noteworthy loyalist to the villain sue. I make no secret that I've got a major dose of 'Darkness Induced Audience Apathy' with 40k atm, and am entirely sick of the Imperium always getting the shaft.

 

How does it go down then? Because I've heard the whole 'Sigi was amazing, he only lost because he was so old' line, yet I've also seen it said that Abby at this point wasn't even reckoned to be the best fighter in the Black Legion and he didn't use the Talon for most of the fight, and won pretty quickly once he did. It doesn't say much for Sigi's 'skill' if he could only hold his own when Abby was literally fighting with one hand tied behind his back. And the whole 'Abby was so respectful, cleaned the corpse and sent it back with a message' thing just seemed like an olive branch to the Templar/Imperial fans, more in keeping with the esteem Sigi has in the fandom, rather than from Abby as a character.

 

If they were going to kill Sigismund (which imo they didn't need to), it should've been once Abby had Drachn'yen (the power upgrade probably being why Abby won), and it marks the end of the Black Crusade, driving the Traitor back into the Eye. So that Sigi's sacrifice actually achieved something. As it is he failed, losing the most important fight of his life and the Templars failed to contain the Black Crusade, with Abby going on to claim the sword of (now) deus ex emperor killing. For better or worse, the idea of 'you're only as good as your last fight' applies, especially when the last one is 'big'. Custer earned a solid reputation during the American Civil War and did reasonably well in the earlier parts of the Indian Wars, yet he's most famous now because he lost at Little Big Horn. William Elphinstone was a successful officer for the majority of his career, but he's remember for the disastrous retreat from Kabul.

 

When this duel was first brought up, the comparison to Beowulf was made in defence of 'it's OK for Sigismund to die'. Thing is, Beowulf did at least kill the Dragon. He achieved something with the manner of his death. There's a big old difference between dying in victory or ultimately victorious cause (pyrrhic, bittersweet) and just flat out losing (ignominy, failure). There's a reason Leonidas is the Spartan King everyone knows, and not Agis III, despite them both dying in battles they lost. Fundamentally, it appears to me that instead of a Thermopylae, Sigi and the Templars were given a Persian Gate, arguably an impressive stand, but ultimately merely a speedbump in a losing proposition.

 

Sorry if that got a bit tangential/ranty. But I've found ADB's works increasingly frustrating in recent years. Too much grimdark, all 'black', all the time, and ideas which imo are bad for (at least my enjoyment of) the setting, and would get a lot more pushback if written by someone else. But because of his skill as a wordsmith, it all passes with approval. Granted, some of that be my distaste at getting 'suckered' by him in Soul Hunter. When I first read that book, the exchange between Talos and Abby was possibly my favourite part of a BL book. 'This guy gets it' I thought, the idea that neither side is what it was once was, that both the Imperium and Traitor Legions have fallen from the heights of the Heresy era, the Long War being akin to two punch drunk prizefighters in the 50th round, neither one able to give up or land the knock out blow (and one of them fighting a bunch of smaller guys at the same time, but that stretches the analogy a bit ). That was 'my 40k'. Then I read on here that that scene was supposed to show Talos was an out of touch loser compared to the glory and vision of Abby, and the Traitors are completely on the ascendant.

 

Bad Leif! You were meant to stop being tangential and ranty (left it in to hopefully convey some of why I take the stance I do here).

[Marshal Rohr]

We don’t know what the effect of the Templar resistance on the Black Crusade was. The Templars could have been establishing chapter keeps and defensive crusade fleets all around the Eye, pre-Astartes Praeses, and led the primary resistance against them. Abaddon’s goal being to claim Drach’Nyen doesn’t mean the Templars goal was to stop them. They would’ve had no idea it even existed. The Templars could hound the Black Legion all the way to Uralan and when they retreat count it as their greatest victory.