Role of Line Units

[Schlitzaf]

The role and point of line troops? Line Troops are for reference, Tacticals and their equivalents, as well as Troop Calibar Units not in the troop slot (Assault Marines, lesser extent Secutari and Biker Squads etc). I think for some armies struggling the most, Astartes espacially, the failure is linked to a lackluster line troop. Or overly expensive line troop.

 

Tacticals espacially; just suck. They are basically defined as the worst Astartes Line Troop as the other Astartes line Units (Crusaders, Grey Hunter and Chaos Marines. Alongside Assault Marines and Raptors. Then lesser extent, Intercessor, Ordo’s Militant Troop And Cult Troop). Are basically defined how they are Tacticals+.

 

Back in the day, the saying was “Tactical” Tax. For how bad Tacticals were. And most Marine Codexes, the main thing was how there Tactical Equivalent was a better Tactical Squad. But this isn’t about Astartes, is just the most saliant example.

 

Troop’s and Line Units are normally seen as tax or frankly bad units. And what I see personally repeated again and again, is the smallest contingent of these tax models, then a whole bunch of toys. Now MSU vs Max is a debate (and for those who say MSU Wins, Two MSU squads and 1 Max Squad, actually is comparable firepower. Sense GravCannons/Lascannons/HvyBolter (GravCannon espacially) put out the same roughly equivalent, 1.2 if moving and 1.5 if not, vs rapid over charge plasma 1.8 (which outside rapid, 0.9). The question of morale is a thing But marines to actually start failing morale you need to lose 5 or more models. More around 6ish. And even then only 44% of failing. The main difference is in melee the 10 man loses an attack on the sgt. However gains an additional pistol attack. MSU is primarily for Detachment filling (where Scouts > Tacticals) or Razor Lists).

 

But this all comes back, to what is the role of line units? And how should they be better emphasis and should all line units be Troop choice or is there a reason units like Secutari and Assault Marines, should be kept in different slots?

[Wargamer]

I'd say the role of line units should be to pour lots of fire / attacks into enemies. I know they're meant to hold objectives, but it seems far easier just to point a big gun at an objective and wipe whoever is holding them, then march a non-Troop unit onto the position.

[Panzer]

1. be a mediocre threat to other line troops

2. capture and hold objectives

3. achieve board controle by sheer presence

4. fill the big detachments to gain more CP

 

That's my take on the role of line units. Tactical Marines basically can't do any of those things properly except for 1 if you give them max plasma.

[Beams]

Line troops provide value, in the following order, in these categories:

Victory Points per Point

---Objective Secured falls into this category

---Cheaper and more effective at holding objectives than any other role.

Board Control

---Similar to the above, but also blocking enemies from gaining objectives, Objective secured means one tactical marine can stop 100 Dominions from taking that objective, and the game is won through objectives.

---Can also prevent enemies from moving to ideal positions, prevent assaults, hold enemy units in combat to prevent shooting, counter assualt to prevent assault units from reaching more important targets, etc.

Flexibility

---Things like combat squads, options to take 1 special/1 heavy allow for increasing anti-(role) firepower for a marginal cost upgrade on a unit you would already be taking

Anti-Infantry

---Troops, especially when given rerolls to hit, are a cheap, reliable way to kill other troops

[Exilyth]

• Relatively cheap ablative wounds for special/heavy weapons. E.g. three lascannon heavy weapon squads are easily killed, but three infantry squads with a lascannon each are harder to shift. If you need boots on the ground, troops units usually provide that the cheapest.

mobile cover for the important units (also deepstrike protection).

contrary to the "troop tax" trope, tau fire warriors are an example of a rather strong line unit in this edition (especially w/an etheral and/or that buffing knife guy). Not for meelee, but S5 at 30" rolling on 4+ is pretty good shooting for a troop unit with a 4+ save.

[KillerClamato]

Troops units are, like others have said before me, meant to 1. Hold objectives (not necessarily take objectives), 2. Control the board, 3. Provide anti-infantry firepower.

Tactical marines and scouts are not potent combatants, by any stretch of the imagination, but I have rarely lost against a marine list that did not include troops choices. It's easy to get caught up in the flashy choices the Astartes codex offers, but often what wins games (unless you solely play kill point missions, in which case small, die hard units that can kill far more than they can be killed are in fact objectively better than any troops choice the Astartes codex can offer) is a balanced army list capable of adequately addressing a number of tactical scenarios, with units that mutually support one another.

For example, it is difficult to imagine a Tactical squad or Scout squad of any size or armament efficiently killing anything, that is fact. If a suitably determined enemy presence is sat upon an objective, it is hard to imagine such squads succeeding in not only dislodging them, but then holding that objective while being subject to enemy attention in the next turn. Despite this lack of killing power, a Tactical or Scout squad will hold an objective regardless of how many enemy models are near it. If they could just get the enemy off the objective, they'd be able to hold it effectively.

In this case, you would pair them with a 'killer' unit. Perhaps a drop pod of sternguards armed with plasmas drops next to the objective and rapid fires the holding enemy unit to death, or a unit of vanguards uses their jump packs to close the distance and destroy the enemy force in melee, then allowing the tactical squad to advance onto the objective and hold it, so your more valuable, powerful units aren't wasted in glorified picket duty and can go out and exert force on the enemy's battleline. The methods don't really matter. The point is, Scouts and Tacticals and most Astartes troops choices, are, in a vacuum, poor on their own. Fact.

However, armies should not consist of units 'on their own'. Each part of the army needs to support eachother. Using powerful units with killing ability to sit on objectives is a waste of their talents, and using an ObSec unit to remove enemy models is a waste of their lives. An army consisting entirely of one or the other will often be beaten by a more well-balanced force.

Like I said earlier, though, my essay I just wrote really only applies to games with objectives beyond kill points - if the game is just about reaping the foe, then yes, it behooves you to take units good at killing and not being killed.

[Kallas]

Killer Clamato: that's a fine principle, but Space Marine units are so damn expensive that they are almost universally far more expensive than the units that they actually can kill effectively.

 

Sternguard, for example, your 'killer' unit is plenty capable of killing those 10 Guardsmen that are actually on an objective. But they're 90pts for a minimum squad (and 5 will statistically kill 7.4 if they have a Captain and Lieutenant nearby and use Masterful Marksmanship! And that's 90pts not accounting for either of those characters or the Drop Pod!!) and with 5 Tacticals to move up to hold the objective, you're looking at 155pts: comparably, the Guard can bring 40 Guardsmen, 10 of whom die and the other 30 then volley the Sternguard off the table easily and then swamp the Tacticals in bodies and take back the objective through sheer weight of numbers (because they also have ObSec).

 

Space Marines simply aren't:

- killy enough

- resilient enough

- numerous/cheap enough

to do what you're saying.

 

You're right on the money for your fundamental principles, but on the table Space Marines simply cannot operate like that because of their numerous (and ultimately back breaking) deficiencies.

[Panzer]

Killer Clamato: that's a fine principle, but Space Marine units are so damn expensive that they are almost universally far more expensive than the units that they actually can kill effectively.

 

Sternguard, for example, your 'killer' unit is plenty capable of killing those 10 Guardsmen that are actually on an objective. But they're 90pts for a minimum squad (and 5 will statistically kill 7.4 if they have a Captain and Lieutenant nearby and use Masterful Marksmanship! And that's 90pts not accounting for either of those characters or the Drop Pod!!) and with 5 Tacticals to move up to hold the objective, you're looking at 155pts: comparably, the Guard can bring 40 Guardsmen, 10 of whom die and the other 30 then volley the Sternguard off the table easily and then swamp the Tacticals in bodies and take back the objective through sheer weight of numbers (because they also have ObSec).

 

Space Marines simply aren't:

- killy enough

- resilient enough

- numerous/cheap enough

to do what you're saying.

 

You're right on the money for your fundamental principles, but on the table Space Marines simply cannot operate like that because of their numerous (and ultimately back breaking) deficiencies.

 

Well yeah. The topic of this thread isn't the balance of Marine units. We know they aren't good at fulfilling the role they're supposed to do. ^^

[Beta galactosidase]

Troops units are, like others have said before me, meant to 1. Hold objectives (not necessarily take objectives), 2. Control the board, 3. Provide anti-infantry firepower.

 

 

---Can also prevent enemies from moving to ideal positions, prevent assaults, hold enemy units in combat to prevent shooting, counter assualt to prevent assault units from reaching more important targets, etc.

Flexibility

---Things like c

troops provide board control, and that's mostly based on the physical space they take up, but not much on any other factor like power or morale. Having better firepower doesn't extend anybody's zone of control, it doesn't stop units from moving past them or from making effective attacks, e.g. when troops are bubble wrapping something, the only impediment they cause is physical distance. Most troop units ostensibly have roughly comparable offensive ability and staying power regardless of points per model. Ideally a bubble wrapping unit, even if it is small and elite instead of large and mediocre, would be able to degrade the firepower and movement speed of something that was moving up near it to attack the unit or objective being protected.