Space Wolves Codex Aftermath

[lonewolf81]

So now that many of you guys have some games under your belt with the new dex, what is your opinion on wolves in 8th with their new rules?

 

My personal thought is that we stand better than our brothers (vanilla, blood/dark angels) because they gave us shooty options and they didnt focus only in melee (blood angels) or only in shooting (dark angels).

 

1. Wulfen are great for their points compared to similar units in other dexes point for point. 

2. thunderwolves got a bit better thnx to wulfenstone and the saga of wolfkin or hunter deed of legend

3. Our melee units got a big boost thnx to our chapter tactic favouring multidamage melee weapos (hammers/fists)

4. Runepriests found a role in our lists thnx to some good psychic powers and stratagem options

5. Grey hunters are 2 points more than sm scouts and get +1 save and +1 attack for that 

6.Stormfang gunship is great for its points now and stormhawk is good with keen senses

7. Keen senses , wolf's eye  and chooser of the slain are good shooting buffs

8. Honour the chapter is great melee buff, devastating if you use it when a unit of wulfen or thunderwolves multicharges things

9.Cloaked by the storm is a way to get some survivablity in the first turns

 

 

[greysquigg]

Not forgetting the 6 inch heroic intervention all out characters can do now and it's applications.

 

But yes I'm very happy with our dex. We are the kings of the mid board and have access to fluffy and powerful stuff. 

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

The one small game I squeaked in versus thousand sons before moving across the country went well. Bjorn was a raging Bad@$$, outflanking hellblasters are quite effective for their points, njal was fantastic despite my opponents hoard of psykers, and the stormfang really got some work done for me. Those were my stars, I reduced him down to a sole giant bird demon thing and managed to hold the king of the hill objective with greyhunters while they valiantly fought the thing. All in all it felt much more balanced. Didn't get to use th lone wolf stratagem sadly. But the remove ti hit modifiers allowed some good work with lascannons on my long fangs who I had stashed in a razorback for safety and when they popped out the did alot of work. All in all I am probably 90% happy with the book. Only a few things I think are bad or need a tweak.

[Guest Triszin]

Frost fury is under appreciated. I think.

[Karhedron]

5. Grey hunters are 2 points more than sm scouts and get +1 save and +1 attack for that

No, both Scouts and Hunters get 1A +1 from their melee weapon. So for 2 points they get +1 save but lose the ability to deploy in the mid-field.

 

I am not saying Grey Hunters are weak, they are probably the best Troop unit in any SM army. I am just pointing out that vanilla Scouts are very good and it is shame we do not have access to them. Our own Wolf Scouts fill a different (and less valuable IMO) niche.

[lonewolf81]

 

5. Grey hunters are 2 points more than sm scouts and get +1 save and +1 attack for that

No, both Scouts and Hunters get 1A +1 from their melee weapon. So for 2 points they get +1 save but lose the ability to deploy in the mid-field.

 

I am not saying Grey Hunters are weak, they are probably the best Troop unit in any SM army. I am just pointing out that vanilla Scouts are very good and it is shame we do not have access to them. Our own Wolf Scouts fill a different (and less valuable IMO) niche.

 

They get +1 attack but they loose the bolter, so its either +1 attack or rapid fire bolter. Grey hunters get +1 attack plus bolter plus 3+ save for 2 more points (they still dont have the deployment shenanigan but its a fair trade point for point if you ask me)

[TiguriusX]

Technically the deployment shenanigan for GH is paid for by a 5 CP battalion

 

Even if you spend 3 CP on all 3 GH it has a net gain over the vanguard and other detachments

 

This is how i personally view GH...they are a useful CP tax unit

 

and with our stratagems we need battalions (i never ran one before codex drop and had to assemble GH last week)

 

long story short....wolf scouts in 8th will never be in my army and it makes me sad

[Armchairarbiter]

I am happy with our Codex so far. It isn't over the top broken but we're in a decent spot. I feel like we're on an even playing field now with relics, traits and strategems. My only issue is two of the relics feel... useless to me. The durfast helm and the frost axe one. I don't see the point of it, it does no extra damage.

 

I am thinking of bringing Wolf Scouts as a way to cheaply fill a Vanguard with a squad of wulfen for an extra CP. Since I usually bring 3 HQs anyway. 

 

My plan revolves around having them be bare bones, minus one carrying a heavy bolter. Put them on each flank and if I feel the need, I can pop the hellburst or whatever it is strategem to do D3 mortal wounds on something. 

 

But most likely, I won't be bringing them. 

[PeteySödes]

I am happy with our Codex so far. It isn't over the top broken but we're in a decent spot. I feel like we're on an even playing field now with relics, traits and strategems. My only issue is two of the relics feel... useless to me. The durfast helm and the frost axe one. I don't see the point of it, it does no extra damage.

 

I am thinking of bringing Wolf Scouts as a way to cheaply fill a Vanguard with a squad of wulfen for an extra CP. Since I usually bring 3 HQs anyway. 

 

My plan revolves around having them be bare bones, minus one carrying a heavy bolter. Put them on each flank and if I feel the need, I can pop the hellburst or whatever it is strategem to do D3 mortal wounds on something. 

 

But most likely, I won't be bringing them. 

 

Woof yea Durfast is garbage, its totally a copypasta from last ed. where i took it every game on psykers (who still rolled to hit).

[WolfLordZeev]

It is the best Imperial SM codex so far...which is actually a bit sad since were firmly mid-tier.

 

However were one of the few armies that can both punch and shoot well. Punchier then SM and Dark Angel's. On par with BA in the fight phase but we beat them 3 ways to Sunday in the shooting phase.

 

However BA will still be the ally army of choice due to how good 2 smash captains and 3 scout squads are compared to what we can do for low points. Wolves are meant to be the primary force of an army and it shows.

[jerrys]

Woof yea Durfast is garbage, its totally a copypasta from last ed. where i took it every game on psykers (who still rolled to hit).

Are there still cases where the model can use the gun from a fortification or something to shoot? Like the icarus quad-gun or whatever that came with the aegis defense line? I could see it being situationally useful, if there is still stuff like that available in 8th.

[TiguriusX]

 

Woof yea Durfast is garbage, its totally a copypasta from last ed. where i took it every game on psykers (who still rolled to hit).

Are there still cases where the model can use the gun from a fortification or something to shoot? Like the icarus quad-gun or whatever that came with the aegis defense line? I could see it being situationally useful, if there is still stuff like that available in 8th.

nope...most guns are automated now to stop character abuse (bs2 guys)

[Kasper_Hawser]

Surprisingly I find it balanced. As mentioned in my Moments of Awesome, I beat a 3 Knight + IG list, although the Knights weren't too OP, 2 Errants and a Gallant, but the generic space marine strategems helped, and Hunters unleashed helped me mow down guardsmen in one round even with just six GH.

 

Another game tonight and tomorrow, hopefully will feel more satisfied with codex.

[Lord Ragnarok]

Has anybody used Intercessors? In my list building, I'm finding niche spots for them but have no experience with them in battle. 

[TiguriusX]

they are good rear objective campers bc range of the gun

 

give them the stalkers and leave them in cover on your objective

 

 

you can play them more aggressively and take a midfield objective too if you want

[Kasper_Hawser]

Has anybody used Intercessors? In my list building, I'm finding niche spots for them but have no experience with them in battle. 

 

Wish i could say that they've been working for me, but so far I haven't successfully used them. Nevertheless, I myself am still trying, so please don't give up on them. As Tigurius mentioned, maybe best to put them on back objective with stalkers. 

 

Maybe my problem is that i still try to use them like I use my Grey Hunters, as aggressive midfield units. But as mentioned, I'm still trying.

[Karhedron]

Has anybody used Intercessors? In my list building, I'm finding niche spots for them but have no experience with them in battle. 

 

I use them in my BA army and they make great objective campers. Park them on a home objective or one they can reach on T1 (preferably in cover) and they are good. Even a basic 90-point squad has 10 T4 wounds behind a 2+ save when they are in cover. Shifting them usually requires far more effort than the enemy will have available to direct at them if your aggressive elements are bearing down on him.

 

I find that one of 3 things usually happens at this point:

 

1: The enemy just gives up and ignores them. You get to hold the objective for 90 points.

2: The enemy sends something heavy-duty their way to kill them which allows your more aggressive stuff to reach their targets. You get to kill lots of enemy with your TWC/Wulfen/DC/SG for the cost of a 90-point "tax" unit.

3. The enemy blinks and splits his attacks. Best of all worlds as this usually results in both the Intercessors and your aggressive stuff getting with a few wounds but still having enough left to complete the mission.

 

Whilst not massively killy. Intercessors are pretty durable for the points. The key to using them successfully is to make that durability a problem your opponent has to to deal with.

[CaptainStabby]

Our PA Lt option is objectively better than the vanilla or angel versions and some mean stuff can be done there.

 

As I mentioned elsewhere, we essentially get Space Wolf Exarchs in the form of Wolf Guard Pack Leaders, kitted up however we want with... arguably 15 ablative wounds if you are putting him with a Blood Claw pack, combined with the Lone Wolf stratagem has lots of opportunity for some nasty shenanigans.

 

Blood Claws in general can be absolutely terrifying with the amount of attacks they can throw out.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Our PA Lt option is objectively better than the vanilla or angel versions and some mean stuff can be done there.

 

As I mentioned elsewhere, we essentially get Space Wolf Exarchs in the form of Wolf Guard Pack Leaders, kitted up however we want with... arguably 15 ablative wounds if you are putting him with a Blood Claw pack, combined with the Lone Wolf stratagem has lots of opportunity for some nasty shenanigans.

 

Blood Claws in general can be absolutely terrifying with the amount of attacks they can throw out.

 

Oh don't get me started on Exarchs. I just fought a game against Eldar and though I managed to win, the bloody Exarchs kept making my life miserable as I discovered they not only have different weapons and 2 wounds, they also have differnet armour and invuln saves as well! Just as I think I can get through their 4+ saves, I discover that the damn Dark Avenger Eldar has a 3+ and a 4++ as well. (I think, I really hope the guy wasn't cheating me). As for the damn Guardians, he kept tanking shots with his weapons platform which had a 3+ or 4+ I think. So damn annoying. Screws target priority for me somewhow and makes what should be squishy eldar suddenly not so squishy. Still squishy but not as much.

 

On second note, my second game victory with the Wolves codex still leaves me somewhat inconclusive. I tried to use Saga of Wolfkin on my Rune Priest, but unfortunately he whiffed most of his attacks and he had been reduced to 1 wound at the 2nd turn, leaving me very cautious and unwilling to charge him forward towards his big blob of guardians and other avengers who overwatch on 5+. Next time I think I'll use Saga of the bear as it is easier to pass a save. Armour of Russ is proving to be very useful though due to the freeze effect saving a few of my units to hit first even when they were charged. Useful strategems were still the generic ones like Only in Death does Duty end. didn't have much use for the wolf unique ones. I really need to increase the strength of my Long Fangs beyond my schizo loadout.

 

Still, a victory is a victory and Captain Stabby is right in the respect of the awesome loadout options of our wolf guard. I just have been keeping them cheap with a combi plasma for so long, it is suddenly very hard for me to rebudget some points for our good CC weapons and cheap stormshield.

[Karhedron]

Oh don't get me started on Exarchs. I just fought a game against Eldar and though I managed to win, the bloody Exarchs kept making my life miserable as I discovered they not only have different weapons and 2 wounds, they also have differnet armour and invuln saves as well! Just as I think I can get through their 4+ saves, I discover that the damn Dark Avenger Eldar has a 3+ and a 4++ as well. (I think, I really hope the guy wasn't cheating me). As for the damn Guardians, he kept tanking shots with his weapons platform which had a 3+ or 4+ I think. So damn annoying. Screws target priority for me somewhow and makes what should be squishy eldar suddenly not so squishy. Still squishy but not as much.

 

Mostly true but I think Exarchs have the same save as their Aspect in 8th edition. Dire Avenger Exarch for example does have 2 wounds but only a 4+/4++ save.

 

Weapons platforms do have a 3+ save but once wounded he has to keep assigning wounds to them meaning you can easily rob the squad of its heavy weapon. 2 T3 wounds behind a 3+ save is not exactly hard to shift.

[Kasper_Hawser]

 

Oh don't get me started on Exarchs. I just fought a game against Eldar and though I managed to win, the bloody Exarchs kept making my life miserable as I discovered they not only have different weapons and 2 wounds, they also have differnet armour and invuln saves as well! Just as I think I can get through their 4+ saves, I discover that the damn Dark Avenger Eldar has a 3+ and a 4++ as well. (I think, I really hope the guy wasn't cheating me). As for the damn Guardians, he kept tanking shots with his weapons platform which had a 3+ or 4+ I think. So damn annoying. Screws target priority for me somewhow and makes what should be squishy eldar suddenly not so squishy. Still squishy but not as much.

 

Mostly true but I think Exarchs have the same save as their Aspect in 8th edition. Dire Avenger Exarch for example does have 2 wounds but only a 4+/4++ save.

 

Weapons platforms do have a 3+ save but once wounded he has to keep assigning wounds to them meaning you can easily rob the squad of its heavy weapon. 2 T3 wounds behind a 3+ save is not exactly hard to shift.

 

 

As mentioned, more annoying than actually tough. And 3+ saves is hard to shift when you have AP0 bolters. For -1 shots, he killed the mooks, but for the AP0 shots, he tanked with the platform, and kept changing until the platform was wounded.

 

You are probably right on the Exarch saves, either way it made most of my -1 shots less effective although mostly wounding on 2+.

 

I had another game recently but i'm not going to count that as a loss as it was too mismatched. I tried to play against a super competitive list with a Dominus, a Gallant and a Crusader with loyal 32 filled with mortars. I gave up start of Turn 2. Wasn't even funny. Dominus is broken. Wiped half of my army despite my efforts to avoid it.  I don't know why I asked for to face that list. 

 

Against the same guy, i'm playing again this weekend this time with his smurfs, hopefully I remember to keep cool and utilise my wolves to the best. I'll be doing a Rhino rush list with power fist Grey hunters and Blood Claws as the core along with my usual Long Fangs. And just to be fun, get 3 Rune Priest together and see what they can do. wish me luck.

[Armchairarbiter]

 

 

Oh don't get me started on Exarchs. I just fought a game against Eldar and though I managed to win, the bloody Exarchs kept making my life miserable as I discovered they not only have different weapons and 2 wounds, they also have differnet armour and invuln saves as well! Just as I think I can get through their 4+ saves, I discover that the damn Dark Avenger Eldar has a 3+ and a 4++ as well. (I think, I really hope the guy wasn't cheating me). As for the damn Guardians, he kept tanking shots with his weapons platform which had a 3+ or 4+ I think. So damn annoying. Screws target priority for me somewhow and makes what should be squishy eldar suddenly not so squishy. Still squishy but not as much.

 

Mostly true but I think Exarchs have the same save as their Aspect in 8th edition. Dire Avenger Exarch for example does have 2 wounds but only a 4+/4++ save.

 

Weapons platforms do have a 3+ save but once wounded he has to keep assigning wounds to them meaning you can easily rob the squad of its heavy weapon. 2 T3 wounds behind a 3+ save is not exactly hard to shift.

 

 

As mentioned, more annoying than actually tough. And 3+ saves is hard to shift when you have AP0 bolters. For -1 shots, he killed the mooks, but for the AP0 shots, he tanked with the platform, and kept changing until the platform was wounded.

 

You are probably right on the Exarch saves, either way it made most of my -1 shots less effective although mostly wounding on 2+.

 

I had another game recently but i'm not going to count that as a loss as it was too mismatched. I tried to play against a super competitive list with a Dominus, a Gallant and a Crusader with loyal 32 filled with mortars. I gave up start of Turn 2. Wasn't even funny. Dominus is broken. Wiped half of my army despite my efforts to avoid it.  I don't know why I asked for to face that list. 

 

Against the same guy, i'm playing again this weekend this time with his smurfs, hopefully I remember to keep cool and utilise my wolves to the best. I'll be doing a Rhino rush list with power fist Grey hunters and Blood Claws as the core along with my usual Long Fangs. And just to be fun, get 3 Rune Priest together and see what they can do. wish me luck.

 

 

Good luck! look forward to hearing about it! 

[Guest Triszin]

Helm of durfast should be re-written to be similar to moment shackle.

 

Give the ability yo immediately shoot(extra shootingphase with the model) enemy unit deepstriking within 9"

[lonewolf81]

I had a game with a dark eldar list in 1500 pts , the most difficult to win opponent in my meta because they heave super cheap, survivable units (they are basicaly immune to range attacks with all those 5++, 6+++, minus to hit , agents of vect e.t.c.). So i will list his list, my list and my thoughts in general.

 

His list was 3x5 kabalites with 1xblaster each squad in venoms, 2xdisintegrator ravagers, 1xrazorwing, 2xarchons (black heart obsession , all the reroll 1s to hit and wound and the cp regen shenanigans  , 2x4 man grotesque (with urien and the 4++ obsession) ,10 wracks and 5xhaywire scourges.

 

I had battalion 2x5man bloodclaws (1 powerfist in each squad), 1x5man grey hunters (stock) , 1xstormfang, 3xassault cannon razorbacks, 2x 5 man longfangs (one with 4 las , one with 3 las), wolf lord with jump pack (TH/SS, wulfenstone, saga of wolfkin) , Runepriest with jump pack (force stave, living lightning, furry of wolf spirits, armour of russ) ,wg battle leader with jump pack (TH/SS)

 

I got first turn but i wiffed because with all my shooting i only managed to bring a ravager down to 5 wounds cause 1-2 wounds here and there .Hedenied my cloaked by the storm with agents of vect in the psychic phase and then he denied my keen senses again in the shooting phase (that thing is broken). In his first turn ravagers destroyed both my longfangs squads and my flyer went to 6 wounds. He made the mistake to charge my HQs with the grotesque where i used the armour of russ and i killed both squads of them. Then in my second turn bloodclaws dissembarked and along with the HQs and lots of multicharges i managed to turn the game and he conceeded turn four, while i still had 3 razorbacks, the wolflord, the priest , one longfang and 2 grey hunters.

 

All in all that HQ trio was super powerful in melee better than any wulfen or thunderwolf squad because they cant be targeted in the shooting phase if positioned correctly and can intervene in opponets turn and destroy a unit also armour of russ is super useful to stop a charging unit i hope they wont nerf it to oblivion

 

Bloodclaws are super good nowbecause they can be taken in squads of six (1xpower fist, 1xWGPL with thunderhammer) and dish out 4 attacks each with rerolls buffed by the wolf lord with their hammers and fists ( 5 attacks if the saga of wolfkin procs) like mini HQs hidden in 4 ablative wounds. Ofcourse you need a razorback or rhino to protect them untill they get in cc. 

 

Super excited after this victory, Cheers

[NightHowler]

I haven't played against Dark Eldar yet. How does agents of vect prevent you from using your stratagems?