Magos Takatus Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 There's been a lot of discussion about Knights since they came out but I don't think much of that has covered one of the coolest aspects of these giant stompy robots. The heraldry of Knight houses can describe their temperament and character as well as document their history. I've been trying to come up with some nice designs to get made into transfers for my budding Knight house. The more I think about it however, the more I realize that I need to carefully pick symbols to hint at a past for my house, or approach from the other direction and write some fanfiction and use that to steer the design process somewhat. If you're in a similar place as I am and you are trying to make your giant stompy robot look a bit more interesting I've found a page that might be helpful: http://www.fleurdelis.com/symbolism.htm This has a fantastic list of various symbols that appear on various forms of heraldry and their meanings. I'm interested to see what other people think about this issue. What do you think about the existing Imperial and Mechanicus designs, the livery of freeblades? Have you created your own heraldry for a D.I.Y. Knight house? What symbolism did you use and why? What sort of themes would distinguish between Imperial and Mechanicus aligned houses? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350170-imperial-knights-and-their-heraldry/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 I'm interested to see what other people think about this issue. What do you think about the existing Imperial and Mechanicus designs, the livery of freeblades? Have you created your own heraldry for a D.I.Y. Knight house? What symbolism did you use and why? What sort of themes would distinguish between Imperial and Mechanicus aligned houses? I think GW did a fairly good job of providing an interesting layout and set of rules for designing Knight heraldry that is relatively clear and simple. Actual historic heraldry and coats of arms are much more complex and esoteric, if you want to draw inspiration from such material then by all means, go nuts. As for the differences between Imperial and Mechanicus houses that Mechanicus houses obviously put less stock into individual livery and use symbols and iconography drawn mostly from the Martian Cult. Imperial households offer much more variety in what you can do with their colors and heraldry and what you can potentially draw inspiration from. I decided to design my own house to go along with my Space Wolves. For the iconography of my House Cenwulf I chose to use a simplified "tribal" style icon sort of representative of the profile of a wolf head as the main symbol of the house that goes on Tilt shields and the carapace of armigers. A wolf head that twists into a ghostly-swirl tail serves as the armor icon on the front left shoulder plate and the legs. To simplify the icon for freehanding I represented the aquila showing Imperial allegiance with the skeletal aquila from the freeblade transfer sheet. Each Knight takes an icon representing the deed-name of the pilot on the front-right shoulder. In this way I chose to mostly base the heraldry of my house on the standards outlined in the codex with a few minor modifications that echo the heraldry and style of the Space Wolves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350170-imperial-knights-and-their-heraldry/#findComment-5163074 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Dawnstar Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 My Knights are of a Renegade House which has seceded from the Imperium but is yet to truly succumb to the taint of Chaos in a big way, and as a result their heraldry is currently in something of a transition period between traditional Questor Imperialis iconography and whatever twisted future awaits it further down the line. It's still very clean but has diverged more than a little from the Imperial line in its imagery. When Vestia was rediscovered in the wake of the Age of Strife its culture held a great reverence for long-extinct dragon-like beings known locally as Ahamkara. The royal house proudly bore the Ahamkara as their emblem and drew authority from a range of (later deemed blasphemous) practices and rituals meant to call upon the power and wisdom of these beasts, even maintaining a priesthood charged with communing with their departed spirits and drawing wisdom from their echoes which yet lingered in the world. Naturally such practices were stamped out by the Ecclesiarchy with extreme prejudice and this regard for the Ahamkara marked as blasphemy, with the agents of the Imperial Cult eventually succeeding at reframing the dragon as a symbol of an old and corrupting evil laid low by the Emperor's light. When the Knights of Vestia marched forth under the Emperor's banner they did so with the Ahamkara still on their tilt shields but as a beast pierced and laid low by a golden sword. Today's House of Drevis has swung somewhat back in the opposite direction. After a prolonged period of isolation within warp storms loosed by the Great Rift saw them fall into civil war, the faction that eventually won the future of the Vestia did so with an eye to reclaiming their past glories and with a (supposed) Ahamakara whispering in the ear of their new High Queen. As such the wings of the aquila about their heraldry are now those of a great drake, the blade bound tightly within the coils of the Ahamakara, and the emblem wreathed in an icon reinterpreted from Amara Drevis' own heraldry: the Golden Sun of Rebirth. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350170-imperial-knights-and-their-heraldry/#findComment-5163111 Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother_b Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 I'm going to make my own house so I can use whatever house traits I please. That's a good link thank you. I'm not good at freehand or anything like that so it will probably be just something simple. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350170-imperial-knights-and-their-heraldry/#findComment-5163141 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magos Takatus Posted September 8, 2018 Author Share Posted September 8, 2018 Wow, Commander Dawnstar, that's a perfect example of what I was looking into. Your coat of arms tells a story, and I think that is fantastic. I've been thinking about Mechanicus aligned Houses and I noticed that none of them display creatures like the Imperial houses do. Krast seems an exception but the snake represents a foe to vanquish rather than a creature that represents them. Do you think that Mechanicus aligned houses steer away from animals in there heraldry for the most part, or that it's generally a coincidence? I personally see them using tools and weapons as a priority. I would like to add an animal of some sort to my own coat of arms but I'm not sure it would look appropriate. I suppose the Codex shows that the state of a coat of arms is in flux so their heraldry could change over time to resemble a Mechanicus style but retain some elements of their old design? What do you think the background element to Mechanicus Heraldry is supposed to represent? I'm guessing it is supposed to depict the rays of a sun but I'm not confident about that. Surely it's got to be more than a random zig-zag pattern if multiple Knight houses have it as part of it's design? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350170-imperial-knights-and-their-heraldry/#findComment-5163253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stray Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 Animalistic Sigils and Icons should be absolutely fine, and do exist in the fluff. House Malinax although now a part of the Dark Mechanicus, used a Scorpion sigil both before and after their forge world turned traitor. Upon being bonded to the Xana II forge world, the fluff states that the scorpion emblem was given two additional tails to represent it being 'transformed by the Omnissiah. It's also a simple icon and very non-heraldic too if that's what you'd be looking for. There is supported scope to basically do as you wish: https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/8/85/Malinax_Knight_Banner_1.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160308192805 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350170-imperial-knights-and-their-heraldry/#findComment-5163267 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magos Takatus Posted September 8, 2018 Author Share Posted September 8, 2018 Thank you, I had forgotten about Malinax despite really liking their design. They completely break the guidelines set up by GW and look good doing it. Vash, do you have any more pictures of your knights you could post please? Those knights look great but I can't seem to find a thread that belongs to you. I'd really like to see the Wolf head symbols you have painted. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350170-imperial-knights-and-their-heraldry/#findComment-5163280 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 Vash, do you have any more pictures of your knights you could post please? Those knights look great but I can't seem to find a thread that belongs to you. I'd really like to see the Wolf head symbols you have painted. Oh yea sure. I had been using photobucket to host images around but those are probably all broken now. So after re-hosting a few things here on the B&C here are some close-up shots: This is the primary heraldic coat of arms of the house simplified for armorial use. This is the symbol that appears not only on the Knights but also the Sentinels and Onagers and any other vehicles used by the house. I went with something that I could freehand so keeping it simple was a priority however I also think the symbol speaks to the practical and efficient nature of the house. This picture shows an example of personal heraldry and the aquila depicting the Imperial alignment of the house depicted in borderline heretical skeletal form. I went with the skeletal aquila not only because it's a bit easier to freehand than one that requires straight lines and perfect symmetry but also because it just plain looks cool, and it also speaks to the fatalistic personality of the house. Lastly this pic shows the other shoulder and the alternate household iconography. Instead of a simple wolf head I went with a version that has a twisting sort of ghostly-wisp of a tail coming down and circling around. This is similar to some of the icons on Logan Grimnar's chariot and I liked the idea of the spirit wolf as a symbol for the house and once again it is a choice that builds the character of the house, pairing with the skeletal aquila it repeats imagery of death and afterlife. With the primary dark-gray and black color scheme the morbid imagery helps to give my knights a rather dark and sinister appearance and character, far from the flashy bold colors of House Terryn or Hawkshroud my custom house is intended to be less showy, less bold or bombastic, favoring practicality and efficiency over glory and chivalry. The motto of the house is "Victory through superior firepower." Finishing off an enemy Knight with a brilliant stab of a reaper chainsword is nice and all, or you could just shoot it to pieces with a thermal cannon shot from a safe distance, my house prefers the latter method. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350170-imperial-knights-and-their-heraldry/#findComment-5164328 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magos Takatus Posted September 10, 2018 Author Share Posted September 10, 2018 Looking good Vash. I like the arrows and the wolf spirit in particular. Here's the work-in-progress picture for my house coat-of-arms. It's pretty rough at the moment but it displays the elements I would like to keep. I don't have an appropriate font for the banner but I know the company that I'm going to commission the decals will have an appropriately gothic font. I'm hoping one it is re-drawn and resized the current lack of detail will be less noticeable. The beacons represent detecting a problem and the portcullis is a protective symbol so I'm working with the rough idea that the knight house foresaw an attack and protected an Adeptus Mechanicus delegation which led to an eventual alliance between the factions. This will result in my Forge World's iconography being common on the Knights I build. If anyone has any feedback I'd be happy to hear it. Another thing I'm curious about is the background of the Mechanicus aligned coat of arms. What do you think the pattern is supposed to represent? It looks like a sort of starburst. Does this represent the rays of a sun? That could be symbolic for enlightenment? Let me know what you think it represents. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350170-imperial-knights-and-their-heraldry/#findComment-5164379 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focslain Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 I have to actually make it, but I have a heraldry for my DIY house. It's a metal lighting bolt, half in silver, the darker half in purple, over a simple bronze cog. Originally it was a tie in to show the fact it was a mechanicus house (the cog) and a twist on the Xaos PMC emblem where the inspiration for my house scheme and it's main commander come from (Mirage Fania Jenius and her VF-31C). After coming up with it and re-listening to Mechanicum I released that the lighting bolt/cog emblem was that of house Taranis, which I take my trait from and fluff wise the knights are from originally. The pilots were killed in a gellar field failure. For my wolf knights I might have to steal a few ideas from Vash113 as my only idea for them was to use the company emblem they would be attached to. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350170-imperial-knights-and-their-heraldry/#findComment-5164483 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 For my wolf knights I might have to steal a few ideas from Vash113 as my only idea for them was to use the company emblem they would be attached to. Yea I didn't just want to paint my Knights up in Space Wolves colors and heraldry because they aren't Space Wolves, or Fenrisians. I wanted them to be similar, but not exactly the same. They are their own house with their own colors and heraldry that just happens to share a similar culture and aesthetic to Fenris and likes to fight alongside the Space Wolves. I'm still working on a Warhound Titan I'm painting up as the Legio Sirius because that Titan legion also shares some traits with Fenris and has a similar aesthetic but is also it's own entity with it's own heraldry. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350170-imperial-knights-and-their-heraldry/#findComment-5164518 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focslain Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 For my wolf knights I might have to steal a few ideas from Vash113 as my only idea for them was to use the company emblem they would be attached to. Yea I didn't just want to paint my Knights up in Space Wolves colors and heraldry because they aren't Space Wolves, or Fenrisians. I wanted them to be similar, but not exactly the same. They are their own house with their own colors and heraldry that just happens to share a similar culture and aesthetic to Fenris and likes to fight alongside the Space Wolves. I'm still working on a Warhound Titan I'm painting up as the Legio Sirius because that Titan legion also shares some traits with Fenris and has a similar aesthetic but is also it's own entity with it's own heraldry. Understandable, when the knights first came out (7th) I was going to have one per company as that would be easier to field then the originally planned warhounds. I'm still looking to add a Reaver to the bunch. When the armigars came out with the new codex on the horizen that is what spawned House Jenius. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350170-imperial-knights-and-their-heraldry/#findComment-5164539 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Dawnstar Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 It's pretty rough at the moment but it displays the elements I would like to keep. I don't have an appropriate font for the banner but I know the company that I'm going to commission the decals will have an appropriately gothic font. If it helps at all, I'm 99% certain that the font GW used is Killigrew. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350170-imperial-knights-and-their-heraldry/#findComment-5164586 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magos Takatus Posted September 10, 2018 Author Share Posted September 10, 2018 Thank you, that helps improves the overall appearance quite a bit! :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350170-imperial-knights-and-their-heraldry/#findComment-5164649 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.