Scale Question

[Doghouse]

How tall would a marine be in mm for this game given that it's 8mm?

[Grotsmasha]

There's two answers.

 

1st - If we take marine at GW 28mm standard, that gives 3mm (rounded up).

2nd - If we use the current GW scaling of the Deathwatch Marines (~32mm) we get 4mm.

 

If you're going True/Art Scale or Primaris 5mm would be your goal.

 

Cheers,

Jono

[Doghouse]

Thanks mate, I'm looking at 5mm then by the sounds of it.

 

As I'm a bit groggy at the moment what's the math to work it out? 

[Grotsmasha]

Thanks mate, I'm looking at 5mm then by the sounds of it.

 

As I'm a bit groggy at the moment what's the math to work it out? 

Wrote a whole thing, and realised I'd faffed my maths up, which is probably why it was hard to work out.....

 

So then I decided to be thorough, so I got out my models, a Dark Vengeance Tactical, an Overkill marine, and a Dark Imperium Intercessor and it turns out I was talking out my butt with mis-remembered numbers. The measurements were (toes to crown);

 

DV Tactical => 31mm => converted to 8mm (31 divided by 28 gives 1.10 or 10% difference) or 8.85mm

OK Marine => 33mm => converted to 8mm (33 divided by 28 gives 1.17 or 17% difference) or 9.42mm

DI Intercessor => 35mm => converted to 8mm (35 divided by 28 gives 1.25 or 25% difference) or 10mm

 

Cheers,

Jono

[Doghouse]

Thanks mate, I sincerly appreciate that. Been one of those muddled brain days so cheers. :tu:

 

I'm looking at 42mm from sole of foot to eyes but should be able to work it out now.

[Captain Idaho]

Cor 10mm seems awful big at that scale. Makes sense though

[Yodhrin]

It seems awfy big because it is.

 

Based on the neutrally posed "actual size" image of the Warlord on the back of its box being ~121mm to the top of the void generators, AT's scale is around 1:270. If a Marine is 7-7.5 feet tall, they'd be about 7.8-8.5mm in that scale, so 8mm for Marines sounds right. A normal 6 foot human would be about 6.5mm.

 

Miniature "scales", especially heroic ones that have undergone decades of scale-creep, are completely wonko when you're trying to work out "actual size".

[jeffersonian000]

8mm scale means an average adult human being (1.8m tall) would be 8mms tall at 8mm scale. Which means Astartes would be 9-10mms tall at 8mm scale.

 

SJ

[apologist]

The idea of it being '8mm scale' (which doesn't really mean very much) came about from an informal comment during an Open Day, I think.

 

The designers stated that the Titans were planned at various scales, and the scale they plumped for would make a marine 8mm tall, because that was the size at which different armour marks were properly distinguishable.

 

Anything else, as far as I'm aware, was extrapolation from that. 

 

It's been variously interpreted as 'a space marine would be 8mm tall, so regular humans would be 6mm tall'; 'a regular human would be 8mm tall, so a space marine would be 10mm tall'; and 'all infantry would be 8mm tall'.

 

The short answer is that we don't know. My guess – and I stress it's just that – is that if we see infantry, we'll see space marines being 8mm tall. Just large enough to make the new stuff distinctive and striking, while making older Epic models (and third party stuff) look slightly too small (though not completely incompatible if you don't mind the slight disjunct).

[Elzender]

Is the 28mm version of the warlord supposed to be in scale with space marines? If so, it would be a matter of asking someone possessing one of them the overall height, and then compare it to a Titanicus scale warlord to calculate the proportion.

[Yodhrin]

Oh, just a wee update - someone prodded me over on Dakka so I tac'd together my half assembled Reaver and measured it; in 1:270 it should be ~93mm to the top of the inside of the shoulderpads when posed like the plate in the AT book, and it's pretty much bang on(as near as I can tell with a ruler and the old MK1 Eyeball anyway), so I'm now fairly confident the game is around that scale, in which case the numbers above(~6.5mm for a baseline human, ~8mm for a Marine) are your best bet. I also ran up a bunch of the vehicles that had Epic models at one time or another using the sizes given in the Imperial Armour books, below are the sizes the models "should" be to match the new AT Titans, folk can compare old GW models to it to see which fit the new scale or as a basis for scaling your own 3D prints: 

 

Leman Russ - 7.08m long, ~26mm in-scale.
Chimera - 6.9m long, ~25.5mm in-scale.
Baneblade - 13.5m long, ~50mm in-scale.

 

Lightning(old style) - 10.8m long, ~40mm in-scale.
Thunderbolt - 14.2m long, ~52.5mm in-scale.
Marauder - 19.2m long, ~71mm in-scale.

 

Rhino - 6.6m long, ~24.5mm in-scale.
Land Raider(new style) - 10.3m long, ~38mm in-scale.
Land Raider(Proteus/old style) - 8.5m long, ~31.5mm in-scale.

Dreadnought(washing machine) - 3.7m tall, ~13.5mm in-scale.
Dreadnought(Contemptor/old style) - 4.5m tall, ~16.5mm in-scale.

 

Thunderhawk - 26.6m long, ~98.5mm in-scale.
Thunderhawk Transporter - 28.8m long, ~106.5mm in-scale.

[apologist]

Oh, just a wee update - someone prodded me over on Dakka so I tac'd together my half assembled Reaver and measured it; in 1:270 it should be ~93mm to the top of the inside of the shoulderpads when posed like the plate in the AT book, and it's pretty much bang on(as near as I can tell with a ruler and the old MK1 Eyeball anyway), so I'm now fairly confident the game is around that scale, in which case the numbers above(~6.5mm for a baseline human, ~8mm for a Marine) are your best bet. I also ran up a bunch of the vehicles that had Epic models at one time or another using the sizes given in the Imperial Armour books, below are the sizes the models "should" be to match the new AT Titans, folk can compare old GW models to it to see which fit the new scale or as a basis for scaling your own 3D prints: 

*Snip*

 

Much appreciated; thanks Yodhrin. Measuring the models, as you've done, is going to be a better way of checking than us arguing about abstract scales!

 

The 'ideal sizes' you list are interesting – the Epic-scale plastic Rhino from the 1st ed. (probably the most familiar version for many people), for example, is 22mm from front to back, so only very slightly undersized. The Epic Armageddon-era ones (which are the updated design, and so more appropriate for the comparison) are a touch longer, from memory.

 

I've got quite a few of the vehicles you've listed at home. When I get a spare moment, I'll measure them and post the results up here. Whatever the results, it'll be interesting to see whether the new Titans for AT are effectively the 'right size' for old Epic. From the sound of things, they'll be near as dammit.

[Yodhrin]

 

Oh, just a wee update - someone prodded me over on Dakka so I tac'd together my half assembled Reaver and measured it; in 1:270 it should be ~93mm to the top of the inside of the shoulderpads when posed like the plate in the AT book, and it's pretty much bang on(as near as I can tell with a ruler and the old MK1 Eyeball anyway), so I'm now fairly confident the game is around that scale, in which case the numbers above(~6.5mm for a baseline human, ~8mm for a Marine) are your best bet. I also ran up a bunch of the vehicles that had Epic models at one time or another using the sizes given in the Imperial Armour books, below are the sizes the models "should" be to match the new AT Titans, folk can compare old GW models to it to see which fit the new scale or as a basis for scaling your own 3D prints: 

*Snip*

 

Much appreciated; thanks Yodhrin. Measuring the models, as you've done, is going to be a better way of checking than us arguing about abstract scales!

 

The 'ideal sizes' you list are interesting – the Epic-scale plastic Rhino from the 1st ed. (probably the most familiar version for many people), for example, is 22mm from front to back, so only very slightly undersized. The Epic Armageddon-era ones (which are the updated design, and so more appropriate for the comparison) are a touch longer, from memory.

 

I've got quite a few of the vehicles you've listed at home. When I get a spare moment, I'll measure them and post the results up here. Whatever the results, it'll be interesting to see whether the new Titans for AT are effectively the 'right size' for old Epic. From the sound of things, they'll be near as dammit.

 

 

Cool, I don't have any of the classic Epic or Aeronautica Imperialis models so it'll be interesting to hear how many fit with the new system. It'd be hilarious if we end up in exactly the same situation as 40K, where everything is broadly the proper size except the Space Marines

[Yodhrin]

For the sake of exactitude - some guy on FB was insisting the game is 8mm scale(ie, around 1:230) because of a throwaway intro blurb on a WC article and a tapdancing Warlord his friend photographed, so because I hate being wrong I went back and double-triple checked everything.

 

I was indeed wrong, the models aren't 1:270 exactly.

 

They're 1:267 :D

 

That makes my by-hand eyeball measurements of the Reaver and Warlord incorrect by a whopping 1mm and 1.5mm respectively. But, admit your mistakes and all that - here's a revised table(changes are bolded, as before rounded to nearest 0.5mm):

 

Leman Russ - 7.08m long, ~26.5mm in-scale.
Chimera - 6.9m long, ~26mm in-scale.
Baneblade - 13.5m long, ~50.5mm in-scale.

Lightning(old style) - 10.8m long, ~40.5mm in-scale.
Thunderbolt - 14.2m long, ~53mm in-scale.
Marauder - 19.2m long, ~72mm in-scale.

Rhino - 6.6m long, ~25mm in-scale.
Land Raider(new style) - 10.3m long, ~38.5mm in-scale.
Land Raider(Proteus/old style) - 8.5m long, ~32mm in-scale.
Dreadnought(washing machine) - 3.7m tall, ~14mm in-scale.
Dreadnought(Contemptor/old style) - 4.5m tall, ~17mm in-scale.

Thunderhawk - 26.6m long, ~99.5mm in-scale.
Thunderhawk Transporter - 28.8m long, ~108mm in-scale.

[apologist]

 

Well, looks like your (and GW's) mathemagick is holding up – here's a couple of pictures of Marine and Guard tanks:

 

Clockwise from top left:

• Epic: Armageddon metal Land Raider [Land Raider(new style) - 10.3m long, ~38.5mm in-scale.]
• Epic: Space Marine (1st ed.) metal Rhino [Rhino - 6.6m long, ~25mm in-scale.]
• Epic: Armageddon metal Rhino [Rhino - 6.6m long, ~25mm in-scale.]
• Epic: 40,000 metal Dreadnought [Dreadnought(washing machine) - 3.7m tall, ~14mm in-scale.]

Clockwise from top left: 

• Epic: 40,000 metal Hellhound [Chimera - 6.9m long, ~26mm in-scale.]
• Epic: 40,000 metal Leman Russ measured from front of tracks [Leman Russ - 7.08m long, ~26.5mm in-scale.]
• Epic: 40,000 metal Leman Russ measured from front of spiky bits [Leman Russ - 7.08m long, ~26.5mm in-scale.]
• Forumware metal Leman Russ [Leman Russ - 7.08m long, ~26.5mm in-scale.]

As you can see, the sizes Yodhrin has extrapolated from the books means that the Titans from the new Adeptus Titanicus (2018) are in scale with the old Epic vehicle models. In essence, the Titans are now the right size for Epic.

 

I've got some Aeronautica Imperialis models tucked away, including the Forgeworld Thunderhawk, Thunderbolt and Marauder, so I'll dig out the box and get some pictures of those at some point, too. For what it's worth, the sizes Yodhrin has given sound about right for those, too.

 

+++

 

Anyway, to cut a long story short, the answer to Doghouse's original question is that the game is scaled to old Epic. I'd take that as meaning humans are 6mm, and a (modern, embiggened) Space Marine should be around 8mm tall – a little taller than the old Epic Space Marine models, due to the changes in the background.

[Elzender]

Oooh, that means ebay time to get old epic vehicles for decor... Well, I guess I should get a couple titans first, or the rulebook at the very least :D.

Anyways, thank you guys for the effort, it is really interesting to see the scale comparison!