KT mini-codex suggests you finish that soup quick, brothers!

[Brother Tyler]

It has been pointed out (accurately) that this topic isn't solely relevant to the Space Wolves, so the topic has been moved to Amicus Aedes.

[Thorakitai]

I feel obligated to point out that guard is far from the only army that can regenerate CPs. In fact not being able to do so is the exception rather than the rule. So just nerfing guard alone (for about the 10th time this edition to address issues with other armies bringing allies) won't actually fix the main issue.

 

GW just needs to come out and admit that CP recycling is a horrible concept and remove it from the game entirely. From all armies. Quite apart from overall game balance issues, CP recycling relics and warlord traits tend to crowd out other choices, though this isn't helped by so many warlord traits and relics being total garbage.

 

The other necessary change, and the one that is hinted at is to faction lock command points, with the 3 for battleforged being free floating. Worst case scenario a player has to keep track of 4 different pools, and it will usually be fewer, especially after the first turn. That's not that much more that we keep track of already.

 

Also, tip for everyone. Don't use D6s to keep track of command points, or anything really. Use D10s or something. You are much less likely to pick them up on accident in the middle of the game.

[Cryptix]

I feel obligated to point out that guard is far from the only army that can regenerate CPs. In fact not being able to do so is the exception rather than the rule. So just nerfing guard alone (for about the 10th time this edition to address issues with other armies bringing allies) won't actually fix the main issue.

 

GW just needs to come out and admit that CP recycling is a horrible concept and remove it from the game entirely. From all armies. Quite apart from overall game balance issues, CP recycling relics and warlord traits tend to crowd out other choices, though this isn't helped by so many warlord traits and relics being total garbage.

 

The other necessary change, and the one that is hinted at is to faction lock command points, with the 3 for battleforged being free floating. Worst case scenario a player has to keep track of 4 different pools, and it will usually be fewer, especially after the first turn. That's not that much more that we keep track of already.

 

Also, tip for everyone. Don't use D6s to keep track of command points, or anything really. Use D10s or something. You are much less likely to pick them up on accident in the middle of the game.

I don't think it's CP recycling that's the problem. How many times do you hear about people complaining about the Tallyman? They just need to word all CP regen like it.

[Panzer]

I feel obligated to point out that guard is far from the only army that can regenerate CPs. In fact not being able to do so is the exception rather than the rule. So just nerfing guard alone (for about the 10th time this edition to address issues with other armies bringing allies) won't actually fix the main issue.

 

GW just needs to come out and admit that CP recycling is a horrible concept and remove it from the game entirely. From all armies. Quite apart from overall game balance issues, CP recycling relics and warlord traits tend to crowd out other choices, though this isn't helped by so many warlord traits and relics being total garbage.

 

The other necessary change, and the one that is hinted at is to faction lock command points, with the 3 for battleforged being free floating. Worst case scenario a player has to keep track of 4 different pools, and it will usually be fewer, especially after the first turn. That's not that much more that we keep track of already.

 

Also, tip for everyone. Don't use D6s to keep track of command points, or anything really. Use D10s or something. You are much less likely to pick them up on accident in the middle of the game.

 

It's not about the general ability to do so, it's about how well AM can do it and how easily they can add a ton of CP for cheap to any army.

• Most armies have an ability to get a CP back on a 5+ when they use a Stratagem or on a 6+ when they or their opponent use a Stratagem. AM can get a CP on a 5+ when their opponent uses a Stratagem (relic) and on a 5+ for each Command Point they spend (Warlord trait after Errata - used to count for each CP spend from both players)
• Many armies, especially Marines and even more elite factions, can't fill a Battalion for less than 200p for easy +5CP while also getting 30 ObSec bodies on the board.

So AM can add CP and board control for almost free to any imperial army like Knights, Custodes and Marines who usually struggle with that while ALSO having better mechanics to regain CP. One of both is already strong but together it snowballs since the more CP you have the more CP you get.

[N1SB]

Basically, the new rules state that the CP generated by the Elucidian Starstrider detachment (and I assume* the Gellerpox Infection detachment as well) MUST be spent on Stratagems SPECIFIC TO THAT FACTION.

 

Hey Fraters, just replying in the spirit of being helpful, because I have the Gellerpox Infection codex.  Looks like Brother Nord and I both split a box with a friend, but we got the opposing sides!  So I'll summarise what we got on the Nurgle side here:

 

- we have 1 HQ character called Vulgar Thrice-Cursed

- IF he is the Warlord, he gets his own specific Warlord Trait called "Twisted Brilliance"

- it is this "Twisted Brilliance" Warlord Trait that gives additional 3 Command Points (presumably in addition to those you get normally for whatever Detachment type you put him in) that can only be spent on Gellerpox Infected-specific Stratagems

 

So for Gellerpoxers, it's not even the Detachment itself that gives CPs specifically for their Stratagems, it's that character, or more specifically, his Warlord Trait.  And it's just those 3 Command Points.  I'm not even sure those 3 CP can be used for re-rolls for Gellerpoxers, as re-rolls are actually a generic Stratagem (Command Re-rolls), and not a Gellerpox Infected-specific one.  The Gellerpox Infected Stratagems, by the way, are fluffy and very unit-specific, all cost just 1 CP.  I think they're really there for flavour.

 

I also realised nothing specifically prohibits other CPs generated by the Gellerpox Infected Detachment, like the ones you get for actually putting together a legal Detachment, from being used for another Detachment.  Or vice versa.  It's just that Warlord Trait has some very specific usage terms for those 3 CP it generates.

 

Not sure if the Rogue Trader's side is better defined, just sharing what I got on-hand.

[Panzer]

 

Basically, the new rules state that the CP generated by the Elucidian Starstrider detachment (and I assume* the Gellerpox Infection detachment as well) MUST be spent on Stratagems SPECIFIC TO THAT FACTION.

 

Hey Fraters, just replying in the spirit of being helpful, because I have the Gellerpox Infection codex.  Looks like Brother Nord and I both split a box with a friend, but we got the opposing sides!  So I'll summarise what we got on the Nurgle side here:

 

- we have 1 HQ character called Vulgar Thrice-Cursed

- IF he is the Warlord, he gets his own specific Warlord Trait called "Twisted Brilliance"

- it is this "Twisted Brilliance" Warlord Trait that gives additional 3 Command Points (presumably in addition to those you get normally for whatever Detachment type you put him in) that can only be spent on Gellerpox Infected-specific Stratagems

 

So for Gellerpoxers, it's not even the Detachment itself that gives CPs specifically for their Stratagems, it's that character, or more specifically, his Warlord Trait.  And it's just those 3 Command Points.  I'm not even sure those 3 CP can be used for re-rolls for Gellerpoxers, as re-rolls are actually a generic Stratagem (Command Re-rolls), and not a Gellerpox Infected-specific one.  The Gellerpox Infected Stratagems, by the way, are fluffy and very unit-specific, all cost just 1 CP.  I think they're really there for flavour.

 

I also realised nothing specifically prohibits other CPs generated by the Gellerpox Infected Detachment, like the ones you get for actually putting together a legal Detachment, from being used for another Detachment.  Or vice versa.  It's just that Warlord Trait has some very specific usage terms for those 3 CP it generates.

 

Not sure if the Rogue Trader's side is better defined, just sharing what I got on-hand.

 

 

So basically it has literally nothing to do with the detachment rules itself. It's just a special warlord trait. I guess this topic just lost its purpose. ^^

[wildweasel]

And it's the same for Elucia Vhane and the Starstriders: she has a fixed Warlord Trait that grants 3 CP only for Starstrider Stratagems.

There are no new Detachments in either. Both Factions have units that say "Does not use a slot if included in a Detachment with Elucia/Vargar" so you can fit either into a Patrol.

[M.Redbeard]

 

 

Basically, the new rules state that the CP generated by the Elucidian Starstrider detachment (and I assume* the Gellerpox Infection detachment as well) MUST be spent on Stratagems SPECIFIC TO THAT FACTION.

Hey Fraters, just replying in the spirit of being helpful, because I have the Gellerpox Infection codex. Looks like Brother Nord and I both split a box with a friend, but we got the opposing sides! So I'll summarise what we got on the Nurgle side here:

 

- we have 1 HQ character called Vulgar Thrice-Cursed

- IF he is the Warlord, he gets his own specific Warlord Trait called "Twisted Brilliance"

- it is this "Twisted Brilliance" Warlord Trait that gives additional 3 Command Points (presumably in addition to those you get normally for whatever Detachment type you put him in) that can only be spent on Gellerpox Infected-specific Stratagems

 

So for Gellerpoxers, it's not even the Detachment itself that gives CPs specifically for their Stratagems, it's that character, or more specifically, his Warlord Trait. And it's just those 3 Command Points. I'm not even sure those 3 CP can be used for re-rolls for Gellerpoxers, as re-rolls are actually a generic Stratagem (Command Re-rolls), and not a Gellerpox Infected-specific one. The Gellerpox Infected Stratagems, by the way, are fluffy and very unit-specific, all cost just 1 CP. I think they're really there for flavour.

 

I also realised nothing specifically prohibits other CPs generated by the Gellerpox Infected Detachment, like the ones you get for actually putting together a legal Detachment, from being used for another Detachment. Or vice versa. It's just that Warlord Trait has some very specific usage terms for those 3 CP it generates.

 

Not sure if the Rogue Trader's side is better defined, just sharing what I got on-hand.

As far as I understamd this is in the end a speculative thread, but the speculation is rather how that Warlord trait is phrased, as it opens uo the possibility that other CP might be tied to a faction. So the Gellerpox and RT Warlord traits mivht be used as an indication that CP might be faction in the future. It is of course not a definite thing, but it is an interesting look at what thw future might hold for CP.

[wildweasel]

Well, the speculation was based on rumors/leaks that the Codices included unique Detachments that had "3 CP but only for Faction Stratagems", which is a much stronger point for "They could be limiting all detachment CP's this way." As a Warlord Trait, particularly for named characters of mini-Factions of a handful of fixed units, not so much. Especially if these Factions are springboards for expanded releases later with the usual level of unit selection, customization, and force building (e.g. Vargar is referred to numerous times as a "Twisted Lord" so I would put money on that being a generic HQ down the line).

[Captain_Krash]

Matched play is the only issue here. They should make separate rules for both rule set and be waaaay more restrictive about it CP's are what is killing "competitive" Warhammer. Using Competitive and warhammer in the same sentence shouldn't even be a thing as the system is terrible for such play. Always has and always will.

 

Krash

[Lexington]

I'd welcome this - always thought "CP generated by a Detachment can only be used on Strategems of its Type" was an easy solution.

[Are Verlo]

I'd welcome this - always thought "CP generated by a Detachment can only be used on Strategems of its Type" was an easy solution.

Do this and change CP regn to work like the IK warlord trait: one reroll and 1 CP. Same with the AD MECH relic. It gives flat out 1 CP.

 

So do you want more CP? Then take 1 relic and WLT. Want cool/usefull abilities? Take some other WLT and relic.

[slitth]

"The red die is my AM CP. The blue die is my SW CP."

Seems elegant enough to me. As long as you don't accidentally roll your CP tracking die. Which I already do almost every game.

 

So use any kind of token you feel can control.

Plastic gems, skulls painted in different colours, a old faction abacus or whatever you prefer.

[Slasher956]

I have that many game /unit /company die that I have a pile of different ones that I use anyway.... I like with my eldar to say "I'm spending X CP" then roll the die if any come up 6 the go back into the CP pile if not the go back in to the dice bag.