Thousand Sons popularity and usage at different events

[Prot]

Something has been kind of bugging me about Thousand Sons and their seemingly lack if popularity in today’s 40k and I thought I’d bounce some stuff off of you guys for conversation.

 

This train ogpf thought comes to me as I painstakingly work on new Thousand Sons which is definitely a labour of love. In the process I will look for the odd battle report or audio book and generally keep up with the competitive meta.

 

I’ve come to the realization that Thousand Sons seem to be hardly played. When I see them competitively it is usually only 2-3 actual units from the codex which are essentially trying to buff Mortarion so he can do the heavy lifting.

 

I think the ridiculous abilities of Knights have all but rendered the Daemon Primarchs into beta choice units going forward ( even when fielded in pairs).

 

But fir everything else, I think Thousand Sons still offer unique playstyle without being completely uncompetitive in every day play.... would you guys agree?

 

The new Codex definitely rubbed me the wrong way with the way it crammed more goats in while ignoring the obvious choices we were all hoping for, but at the same time I think it’s also fair to say the cure units in the codex are pretty valid in every day play.

 

So why do we so little of Thousand Sons now? Is it perceived that they’re weak? Does Death Guard and Alpha Legion steal the hearts of the average chaos player( competitive or otherwise)? Is there a feeling of GW moving on to shinier more potent stuff?

 

In this forum I’ve noticed a fairly significant down turn in active Thousand Sons players, so what has made you move on? What did you leave for? And what would make you come back?

[Heliomanes]

I moved on due to lack of options, but will likely return to do more modelling when the mood strikes me. Thousand sons are popular competitively as a component in a chaos soup list - providing flying daemon princes, Ahriman and other reliable sources of long ranged psychic smites. Lists like these rely heavily on cheap and effective troops that can flood the table and shield the expensive characters, and sadly that's something the regular chaos codex does a lot better than the Thousand Sons one. Particularily a mix of slaaneshi and khornate cultists, with their strong stratagems and the fantastic Alpha Legion trait and infiltration options.

With the rise of daemon primarch lists, and now - imperial knights, hordes are becoming more competitive and popular as a counter - and this just so happens to be a form of list design that hits psychic reliant armies hard. You'd rather mortally wound a Custode than a Cultist or a Guardsman, after all.

[Raven1]

Competitively Smite spam is a real option however as with any other top tier list it is cherry picking the best unit from 2-3 codexes and moving on. As far the other army choices go Rubrics and SO terminators suffer the same problems that generally relegate nearly all if not all marine choices to a non-competitive tier, but are more expensive. Add to that it is a new codex. As a fully fledged army they are relatively brand new. Pre-traitor legion supplement it was a single choice for troops and the abilities tended to be sub par compared to anyother choice in previous codexes. Which is in contrast to Death Guard or Berzerkers that have been strong choices in previous codexes. With the advent of Killteam i think we will see more Rubrics, maybe not. However, i dont really ever see TS being as popular as any of the other more popular marine choices.

[Tyriks]

I actually love TS and have struggled to find a desire to play much else lately. They may not be Eldar strength but they're for sure better than anything else I have. Even against the strongest armies in the grouo I tend to do well and I refuse to play without Rubrics. That said, I'm not playing in tournaments. I might, eventually, if I ever get enough stuff painted.

 

I will say though I think the depth of the line is the biggest issue we have. If I was at all interested in the aesthetics of Nurgle I might have picked DG over TS just for the variety. I really wish some of the FW options from Horus Heresy would make it over (or, better yet, get plastic models).

[Heliomanes]

I wish we could do something cool and unique with our cultists, like using their lives as psychic batteries, or fill their brains with immaterial energies that could detonate them and anything nearby with the proper stratagem.

In most current games you'll need a lot of command points, which means filling up a few big detachments with HQs and Troop choices. We've got good, but expensive hq choices. Goats are good, but took a hit with the faq balancing out early game deep striking and guaranteed charges. I must admit that I also don't really like the models... So a cheaper troop choice like cultists would free up a lot of points for our more expensive options to take the field. Still, they just are so incredibly outperformed by infiltrating, -1 to hit AL cultists that can shoot twice with the slaanesh stratagem, and even be recycled with Tide of traitors.

I actually like rubrics rules wise, but they become incredibly hard to fill up 2 batallions worth of troop choices with. Again, if we could do cool things with cultists there, we'd free up points and CP to run a 20 man Ru-Brick, or big units of Scarab occult, and similar investments.

[The Yncarne]

I'm starting to get bored with my unit choice. Keep in min I am on record against beastmen. I've also avoided playing the supreme command detachment with Magnus or Ahriman to buff chaff or Death Guard units.

 

Recent experience reinforces others' observation that Knights are a great army, encouraging chaos soup lists. Some people believe that 8th edition is harsh on elite and power-armor units. I'm inclined to that, but believe that GW really wants soup lists for chaos and Imperial factions. Its just too bad that daemons and heretic astartes don't complement each other as in the past.

 

If 8th edition is indeed the "final edition" with a living ruleset, at some point I should revisit other armies I have. I've got several large armies and am starting another with using House Chromatica as a Knight detachment for my Sectai Prosperine. I could be persuaded to return to my Tau or Eldar, while my Astartes armies reinforce my closet OZs. But I like playing new armies in each edition, so Genestealer cults may be my future.

[Zodd1888]

Issues w/ Mono-1kS Codex:

 

-No 1kS specific anti high wound/toughness answer (MW output is too low, except Magnus)

- 5++ is over-valued in terms of survivability on 1W/2W models, 4++ is too circumstantial (Harlequin stock 4++, multiple Aeldari -1 to Hit, Disgusting Resilience applying to MW and/or rolled individually, etc.)

- -2 AP is over-valued in most circumstances (prevalence of ++/DR diminishes value, reroll wounds and poison is made more important)

- Legion Trait applies to only Psychic powers and Psykers with no benefit to other troop types

 

Viable Comp Build and Associated Concerns:

 

MW/Character Spam

 

- Difficulty competing with Hordes or +++.

- If army was composed of Magnus, Ahriman, 2 Daemon Prince's, and 2 Shaman's you're looking at 6-21 MW (not considering the 8% Crit rate).

 

This list is great against character/monster spam. It unfortunately lacks means to deal with typical lists that have bodies, exceptionally resilient +++ armie, or large amounts of multi-wound models like Tank spam.

 

 

Tzaangor Goat Mower

 

- Difficulty competing with high volume fire or more assault focused armies (Catachans/Aeldari/Orcs do more for less, assault has to get there, Warp Time is one shot)

- Difficulty with delivery (weakened due to Webway/Warp Time nerf)

- Low survivability compared to alternative hordes (Cultist redeployment/Plagur Bearer 5++/5+++)

 

This list is pretty surgical, meaning your goat herd has to blow up a key target or you auto-lose. Other hordes play objectives. For a offensive horde they feign in output without CP investment, compared to Guard's shenanigans.

 

Skyfire Spam

 

- Low survivability 5++ 2W (see Jink/Holo-field)

- Low shots and damage (see Shurikens/Plasma/Twin boltgun + Bolt pistol)

- High degree of psychic dependency (all buffs + Prescience)

 

Fun army, great for objectives. Low survivability really puts you on the back foot. Psychic powers are required you'll typically only see one squad working. Biggest opposition is volume of shots as if psychic phase flops, or even just weight of dice, as 24 wounds is a dead squad on a 5++ average.

 

Summary:

 

1kS is good but has a few glaring weaknesses as a mono-dex. Some support from FW can help with many shortcomings, but all at compounding costs. Without more/higher multi-damage weapons or exploding 6's with bolters, similar to enlightened with theirs maybe switching to MW, I don't foresee mono-dex sons on top tables.

 

As a competitive detatchment you'd only take what's best. This means taking only things the legion trait applies to (Supreme Command) to apply Psychic powers at greater distance and more effectiveness with or without a big squad of Goats for cheap/efficient pony.

 

There are other Chaos options that do everything 1kS do better, except our Characters.

[Xenith]

I'd put it down to:

 

• Hard to paint models - large barrier to entry.
• Smite/perils rules in 8th crippled TS from what I gather, just recovering now.
• No new Thousand Sons units added in 8th ed codex.
• High monetary cost of goats - £25 for 70pts is too much. 

[Grendaxe]

For me it's the psychic phase which has almost completely turned me off playing 1k sons.

I still love the aesthetics of the models (goats not so much) and background of them but i'm seriously having a hard time stomaching their play-style.

I don't really need 1k sons to be compenatively at the top (not auto losing would be nice) but at least interesting to play. And for me thats the biggest problem i have with them.

 

Back in the 7th edition I did not mind the very small selection of units or weapon load-outs because i had an array of psychic "tools" to choose from. Each squad equipped with a different tool to be used differently on the table. It wasn't very good but i had a lot of fun in it's execution.

 

But now that all psychic "guns" are smite or variances of smite and all the other psychic powers are 1-up's (+1 invul,+1 to hit etc.). For me, the whole psychic phase is more a chore than something to look forward to.

 

I think the current rule set is perfect for armies with 1 or 2 psykers. But if GW makes and sells armies with a large amount of psykers (1k sons, grey knights,daemons) i think you need a better system.

 

Magnus for example, is in my opinion closer to Khorne daemon with a super smite than a "sorcerer king". The same goes for Kairos Fateweaver, they are both deadlier in the assault phase than they are in the psychic phase.

 

This has lead me to play only 1 game in last 12 months with my thousands sons / tzeentch daemons. And while i enjoy the thousands sons backstory/models very much, i don't plan on buying or fielding them more unless, for me, this changes.

[Panzer]

Honestly the only reason why I didn't pick up TSons is because I'm waiting for EC and someone else in my group decided to pick up TSons. Otherwise there's literally nothing I don't like about them. ^^

[Xenith]

 

Back in the 7th edition I did not mind the very small selection of units or weapon load-outs because i had an array of psychic "tools" to choose from. Each squad equipped with a different tool to be used differently on the table. It wasn't very good but i had a lot of fun in it's execution.

 

 

See, I stopped playing Sons/Chaos in 6th/7th ed after 1-2 games because of all the variety. 

 

With Ahriman, sorcerer, 3 Rubric sorcs, and the gift of chaos, it took me about 20 mins at the start of a game to do my rolling and book keeping, before I even deployed. 

 

Add in the boon of chaos power, and the champions of chaos rule and I stopped enjoying it. 

 

Thousand Sons have a lower base of players to work from, with Mono-Tzeentch lists arguably having been awful between 3rd and 7th ed (3.5 excluded), relatively few played them, other than the relentlessly masochistic (like myself). 

 

The 3.5 dex was good as it added new units, Chosen, terminators, some other stuff, and it was fun. Not the most powerful choice (Emperor's Children princes; Word Bearer Daemon Bomb; Iron Warrior gun show), but infinitely customisable and fun (9 man chosen unit each with doombolt, 2W 4++ terminators, anyone?).

 

I haven't played Thousand Sons in a long time, but I'm working on a Kill Team, which will hopefully be fun. 

[Tyriks]

I think more psychic variety would add to the problem. We already have 18 spells to remember, if there were more or if each one was radically different than all others it would be even harder, especially for a new player.

[WarriorFish]

I'm still looking to start mine properly (too many projects, as always), but I think there's a few factors at work. The aesthetic of the models is no doubt a draw but such detail comes at a price - most of us aren't painting them very fast There's also the style of play in that as mentioned the new codex was a little disappointing for those of us interested chiefly in fielding Thousand Sons in our Thousand Sons army, and that impacts motivation

 

I also think KT is a great game, and a great way to dabble in TSons for those interested. I too am using it as a goal to get moving - but I need to strip my Aspiring Sorcerer after I botched his robes which is holding me back (my own fault though...).

 

 

I wonder what happened to that questionnaire on Sons that was banded around a little while back? Presumably sent in to GW, never to be heard of again

[Prot]

Hey guys, some really, really good thoughts. Some echo my own concerns and some have made me think of the codex in a different light.

 

 

With the rise of daemon primarch lists, and now - imperial knights, hordes are becoming more competitive and popular as a counter - and this just so happens to be a form of list design that hits psychic reliant armies hard. You'd rather mortally wound a Custode than a Cultist or a Guardsman, after all.

 

+ It feels to me like a great pile of early codexes are starting to feel more and more like this. I wondered if we'd end up down this path in 8th and here we are: Codex Astartes, AdMech, Grey Knights.... all feel a little more dated now.

 

 

As far the other army choices go Rubrics and SO terminators suffer the same problems that generally relegate nearly all if not all marine choices to a non-competitive tier, but are more expensive. Add to that it is a new codex. As a fully fledged army they are relatively brand new.

 

+ I have thought about this too, but this might be just my opinion however I feel very strongly that GW desperately needs to -fix- the core mechanics of marines. Right now every codex does whatever it can to avoid Marines/Terminators. So what hope do Thousand Sons have with very costly ones? I agree they won't win anyone over, but what if they became fundamentally valuable as a core choice again and we weren't running tables of Cultists and Goats? How fun would that be (for all marine based codexes)?

 

+ I have thought some little gems/fixes reside in "Kill Team" but many don't apply to "All is Dust" models which sadly means they probably wouldn't convert to 40K well

 

 

I will say though I think the depth of the line is the biggest issue we have. If I was at all interested in the aesthetics of Nurgle I might have picked DG over TS just for the variety.

 

+ This is a biggie for me too. When I was originally turned off by Codex Goats, I fired up Death Guard bigtime. I will always enjoy the Thousand Sons aesthetic, and background but wow what a MASSIVE difference in playstyles. In 'mid-tier' games I'd say the Death Guard offer a truck load of viable options, and many are very fluffy (IE: not loaded with Knights, or opposing Daemonic elements, etc).

 

+ Right now I have a Kill Team of Thousand Sons, and a full rebuild of Death Guard going on, and I am constantly reminded of all the variety in build options I have with Death Guard. It's just not there for Thousand Sons, BUT the core HQ's and aesthetic of Thousand Sons is really, really fun and fairly competitive, in my opinion.

 

To be blunt, you better love running Ahriman, DP's and Magnus in the bigger games.

 

 

 

I actually like rubrics rules wise, but they become incredibly hard to fill up 2 batallions worth of troop choices with. Again, if we could do cool things with cultists there, we'd free up points and CP to run a 20 man Ru-Brick, or big units of Scarab occult, and similar investments.

 

+ Absolutely agree. It's a shame really.

[DominikB]

It’s a few things for me, if anything something I see even more of in DG (which I used to plague top third at 2 ITC tournaments). Keeping in mind what I say below I probably have around 5k points of DG/1Ksons....

 

Firstly it’s variety/customisability:

 

Take exalted sorcerors I can take PS, Force Staff or Force Sword (Index option if I’m not msitaken, a disc or no disc and some pistol options. For such an amazing kit, I feel I end up with the same exalted as everyone else on the table. I won’t even start on Chaos lords in the DG book, and I mean look at the 2 choices you get for Lords of Contagion...

 

1ksons great rules and super fluffy, but I get nearly 3 goats or a whole 5 cultists for that. Yeah I get a sorceror but most powers are too high casting (8/9) to bother with on them. Why is there no strat or spell for these or the SO termies (same with PM,BL,DST or many of the ‘new units’...)

 

I rate the 1ksons trait as one of the best in game, behind DR but it does feel very concentrated around certain units which I guess can be forgiven in the context. It’s not as bad as DG and DR missing on some units (Lords, helbrutes defilers...)

 

Finally where are my warp combi-bolters on rhinos...(I know there’s a strat)

 

All in all though I’m looking to see if I can repeat my ‘success’ that I had with my DG with some (hopefully) Magnus free 1kson

[Prot]

Yes there are some strange limitations in both codexes...as you cite Death Guard Lords (no DR), weird gear limitations, and the Thousand Sons Exalted Sorcs feel like a massive missed opportunity for such an amazing kit

 

I think I would be hard pressed to repeat my DG successes with Thousand Sons though... without dipping into Knights.

[Heliomanes]

That had me in hulk smash mode for a while. I had scores of Thousand Sons terminators, Sorcerers and so on from 30k armed with axes, which the codex won't allow. That's such a small and petty thing to do from GWs side, that I instantly lost a lot of my initial enthusiasm for getting this army into an 8th edition context. It suddenly felt like more of a chore than something I genuinely wanted to do due to my own volition.

[DominikB]

That had me in hulk smash mode for a while. I had scores of Thousand Sons terminators, Sorcerers and so on from 30k armed with axes, which the codex won't allow. That's such a small and petty thing to do from GWs side, that I instantly lost a lot of my initial enthusiasm for getting this army into an 8th edition context. It suddenly felt like more of a chore than something I genuinely wanted to do due to my own volition.

This in some ways was why I chose DG, look at those PM/BL options

[Grendaxe]

 

 

Back in the 7th edition I did not mind the very small selection of units or weapon load-outs because i had an array of psychic "tools" to choose from. Each squad equipped with a different tool to be used differently on the table. It wasn't very good but i had a lot of fun in it's execution.

See, I stopped playing Sons/Chaos in 6th/7th ed after 1-2 games because of all the variety.

 

With Ahriman, sorcerer, 3 Rubric sorcs, and the gift of chaos, it took me about 20 mins at the start of a game to do my rolling and book keeping, before I even deployed.

 

Add in the boon of chaos power, and the champions of chaos rule and I stopped enjoying it.

 

Thousand Sons have a lower base of players to work from, with Mono-Tzeentch lists arguably having been awful between 3rd and 7th ed (3.5 excluded), relatively few played them, other than the relentlessly masochistic (like myself).

 

The 3.5 dex was good as it added new units, Chosen, terminators, some other stuff, and it was fun. Not the most powerful choice (Emperor's Children princes; Word Bearer Daemon Bomb; Iron Warrior gun show), but infinitely customisable and fun (9 man chosen unit each with doombolt, 2W 4++ terminators, anyone?).

 

I haven't played Thousand Sons in a long time, but I'm working on a Kill Team, which will hopefully be fun.

Oh mind you i have absolutely no interest in returning to the psychic phase of the 7th edition. I just think you could have fixed a lot with the implementations that are in place now. (Select powers before the game. No warp-charge gathering).

 

I do not see the benefit of making every psychic power deal mortal wounds only. It's OP vs some armies and underwhelming vs others.

 

For TS this makes really 1 dimensional game-play: do I smite(mortal wound) or do I shooting them with str4 ap-2 weapons? There are no other options with TS units

[Panzer]

That had me in hulk smash mode for a while. I had scores of Thousand Sons terminators, Sorcerers and so on from 30k armed with axes, which the codex won't allow. That's such a small and petty thing to do from GWs side, that I instantly lost a lot of my initial enthusiasm for getting this army into an 8th edition context. It suddenly felt like more of a chore than something I genuinely wanted to do due to my own volition.

I honestly can't blame GW all that much for it. As far aGW is concerned 30k Legions and 40k Legions/Chapter are different armies with each their own set of models that aren't supposed to get used cross-game. Nice if you can use 30k models for conversions or even counts as but definitely not a given.

[DominikB]

 

 

 

 

Back in the 7th edition I did not mind the very small selection of units or weapon load-outs because i had an array of psychic "tools" to choose from. Each squad equipped with a different tool to be used differently on the table. It wasn't very good but i had a lot of fun in it's execution.

 

See, I stopped playing Sons/Chaos in 6th/7th ed after 1-2 games because of all the variety.

 

With Ahriman, sorcerer, 3 Rubric sorcs, and the gift of chaos, it took me about 20 mins at the start of a game to do my rolling and book keeping, before I even deployed.

 

Add in the boon of chaos power, and the champions of chaos rule and I stopped enjoying it.

 

Thousand Sons have a lower base of players to work from, with Mono-Tzeentch lists arguably having been awful between 3rd and 7th ed (3.5 excluded), relatively few played them, other than the relentlessly masochistic (like myself).

 

The 3.5 dex was good as it added new units, Chosen, terminators, some other stuff, and it was fun. Not the most powerful choice (Emperor's Children princes; Word Bearer Daemon Bomb; Iron Warrior gun show), but infinitely customisable and fun (9 man chosen unit each with doombolt, 2W 4++ terminators, anyone?).

 

I haven't played Thousand Sons in a long time, but I'm working on a Kill Team, which will hopefully be fun.

Oh mind you i have absolutely no interrest in returning to the psychic phase of the 7th edition. I just think you could have fixed a lot of the implementations that are in place now. (Select powers before the game. No warpcharge gathering). I do not see the benefit of making every psychic power deal mortal wounds only. It's OP vs some armies and underwhelming vs others.

 

For TS this makes really 1 diamentional gameplay: do I smite(mortal wound) or do I shooting them with str4 ap-2 weapons? There is no other option with TS units

I have to agree here, the PYSCHIC phase seems very similar and kinda shows why smite spam was/is the issue it is. It’s rare that another spell is worth it over smite tbh...the whole balancing of some spells (casting level, damaged, availability to rerolls) seems off to me. I feel I struggle to cast as 1ksons compared to a farseer or Eldrad. Our plus one one helps so much tbh...

[Heliomanes]

 

That had me in hulk smash mode for a while. I had scores of Thousand Sons terminators, Sorcerers and so on from 30k armed with axes, which the codex won't allow. That's such a small and petty thing to do from GWs side, that I instantly lost a lot of my initial enthusiasm for getting this army into an 8th edition context. It suddenly felt like more of a chore than something I genuinely wanted to do due to my own volition.

I honestly can't blame GW all that much for it. As far aGW is concerned 30k Legions and 40k Legions/Chapter are different armies with each their own set of models that aren't supposed to get used cross-game. Nice if you can use 30k models for conversions or even counts as but definitely not a given.

 

Sure, you can use that argument if you want to. That doesn't make excluding classic and obvious weapon options good game design for a faction that struggles with depth and lack of choice. Even if FW never existed, it is sad or customer unfriendly game design when they remove the classic options that other people spent time, energy and enthusiasm converting and kitbashing before the new model line launched. Thousand Sons with axes or khopesh staffs has been a classic part of the aesthetic, and new players might want to kitbash the axe wielding Thousand Son from the Talon of Horus - and our current codex stops you dead in your tracks with its lack of options.

[Panzer]

 

 

That had me in hulk smash mode for a while. I had scores of Thousand Sons terminators, Sorcerers and so on from 30k armed with axes, which the codex won't allow. That's such a small and petty thing to do from GWs side, that I instantly lost a lot of my initial enthusiasm for getting this army into an 8th edition context. It suddenly felt like more of a chore than something I genuinely wanted to do due to my own volition.

I honestly can't blame GW all that much for it. As far aGW is concerned 30k Legions and 40k Legions/Chapter are different armies with each their own set of models that aren't supposed to get used cross-game. Nice if you can use 30k models for conversions or even counts as but definitely not a given.

 

Sure, you can use that argument if you want to. That doesn't make excluding classic and obvious weapon options good game design for a faction that struggles with depth and lack of choice. Even if FW never existed, it is sad or customer unfriendly game design when they remove the classic options that other people spent time, energy and enthusiasm converting and kitbashing before the new model line launched. Thousand Sons with axes or khopesh staffs has been a classic part of the aesthetic, and new players might want to kitbash the axe wielding Thousand Son from the Talon of Horus - and our current codex stops you dead in your tracks with its lack of options.

 

 

I never said that. Just that not including 30k TSons model options for 40k TSons isn't something I'd blame them for. Nothing more and nothing less.

[Heliomanes]

Well, you commented on my original point, and my original point aimed at a wider discussion of a lack of options in the codex. I'm sorry if I didn't convey that properly, but being unwilling to see the incompitability between 30k and 40k as a small part of a larger problem - the lack of options in the codex - and being unwilling to admit that removing the option of previously common 40k gear such as an axe, even for Exalted Sorcerers and terminators, seems needlessly obtuse. I agree that 30k and 40k shouldn't overlap 100%, and the same with the CSM and Ksons codexes in 40k, but this is such a basic building block that it really stands out to me as a symptom of a poor game design philosophy that will invariably lead to threads like this.

[Ahzek451]

I've tried my best to give the 40k FAQ email my thoughts. I am happy to at the very least have a codex for once, but I have spent more time on the hobby with these guys than playing anymore due to boredom.

 

A lot of powers either seem redundant or askew to what other armies are capable of in the psychic phase. Our WC costs seem so damn high and some powers (glamour) have the same range and effect as others (is it death guards miasma?) with a higher cost. I feel like some warp charge adjustment and some power tweeks here and there (maybe the ability to bring back rubrics with temporal manipulation) would be a great start. This army has also seen a lack of manipulative and deceptive-like powers that others seem to excel at. The genestealer cult powers have one that allow you to reliably control a model like say...a knight! whilst the Tzeentch daemon power equivalent pails by comparison. Since we lack certain weapons and we rely so much on powers...how bad would it be to be able to turn some of the weapons of the enemy against them?

 

I wouldn't mind it if every codex or even just Thousand Sons had a codex specific power that could be used more than once like smite.

And/or take a page from sigmar and allow named characters to have a unique power that belongs to them.