Any real value in Vanguard Veterans?

[ashc]

Either in their own squad or whether people are still attaching them as part of a kill team?

 

I have 7, the two from DW Overkill and the squad that were part of the datasheet for death masque-

 

Plasmapistoland power sword

Storm shield and power sword

Storm shield and power mail

2 heavy thunder hammers

 

But I'm thinking about pulling them apart and cannibalising them for other stuff.

 

Any successes?

[Inquisitor Red]

I use mine as a solo unit and not in a Kill Team. Sense the codex dropped I've found the Primaris Kill teams more useful vs their original counterparts. When they're on their own I run them in two different ways.

 

Cheap Pistol/Chainsword - Mainly used as a quick, objective grabbing/harass unit. SIA makes their pistols actually usable, but in groups of 5 they can't kill much besides t3 infantry level models. Honestly I'm finding Rievers do this job better, but at a cost of mobility once they come in from reserve.

 

Close Combat Duel Lightning Claws - This is the fun build in my opinion. Really good at shredding marine equivalent infantry, and with re-rolls to wound they have an alright shot at hurting anything t5-t7. They're fast and can pick optimal match ups really easily. 

[Mobius0288]

I have a mixed pistol and melee squad which doesn't really do all that well. I use them more often to stick in my veteran squads.

 

The other unit I use is 3 hammers/pistols and 2 shields/pistols. I almost killed girly man with this unit because I dropped it out of a blackstar and charged over the infantry bubble he tried to create around him. It was pretty glorious, despite getting wiped. This unit is really good at assassinating specific targets, especially characters because I can charge them directly vs having to shoot at other infantry models before shooting a character.

 

The movement is the best part about this unit so taking them fairly cheap with maybe a power weapon on the Sgt is valid. The trick is always playing them in such a way that they don't get wasted/blown up before they can do what you want them to do. Most people I've seen love to deep strike them and try to charge, but that is the best to get them killed right off the bat. Making a 9" charge isn't optimal. Dropping them out of a blackstar is beeaaauuuutttiiffull thing and highly recommend you try it once. Otherwise, I would say stick them in a veteran unit. Keep in mind you can also combat squad a 10-man unit for minor point efficiencies. For example:

 

5 man vet unit ( Sgt, storm bolters, storm shields, whatever)

 

3 vets (SB/SS)

1 termie (SB/sword)

1 VV (pistol/sword)

 

-or-

 

4 vets (SB/SS)

1 VV (pistol/chainsword)

 

In either case, your VV can give you an opportunity to use the tempest shells against vehicles. It also should be last to die so you can enjoy that retreat and fire ability. To that end, some will try to use auto-hit type weapons which is also totally valid.

 

Just some thoughts for you. I really like VVs personally.

[Reviler]

On the second team you mention Moibus, better off giving the VV two chainswords and using him as a grenadier for the unit.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I don’t see much value as they don’t contribute to shooting.

[anarchistscourge]

I see value as I love using my Corvus’. So I will have 1 with dual lightning claw in with my SB and Frag squad that dropout of it. They are more than likely getting charged and it gives me some good attacks in CC.

 

Also 2 with 3 bikes combat squAded out from stalker bolt vets. Still don’t know what’s best to go with for these guys

[Prot]

If there was more value in Close Combat with DW, I would still use them. But since the new codex dropped and we can Deep Strike with Strats, they just have no real value paying for a jump pack.  In my opinion you get more value if you go with a deep striking super shooty squad. Heck I'd take 5 Vets with Stormbolters over Vanguard. Combining it with Strats you can get a lot of mileage out of that simple unit.

 

Vanguard Vets are often configured in a very elaborate way. To me that's the trap of them.

[Reviler]

The vanguard throws the grenade the squad can throw each time it shoots

[anarchistscourge]

For me the VV in the squad I drop in is more for mind games. Basically once they have dropped and if hey survive the opponent has no good choices. They can charge taking 6d6 auto hits from the frag cannons, and then I can fall back and still shoot. Most times they will shoot them off the table. But with 2 stormshields hey are surprisingly resilient.

 

I agree there is no point to them in a VV squad

[zero88]

Standalone squads have their value, it's just that they fill a niche role and require you to be very selective with them..

 

1) The Character sniper.. a squad of 6 or 5 plus a Jump Chaplain inside a Corvus can surprise someone with their mobility and can surgically strike a vulnerable "buff" character or a gunline unit.

 

2) Flyswatters.. use their jump packs with Storm Shields and Thunder Hammers to take down flyers.. we have little dedicated AA resources already.

 

3) Counter Strike.. again I would use a small squad which gives a small footprint and the idea is pretty simple.. hide them out of LOS and wait for them to pounce on whatever threat comes close

 

4) Death Company JRs.. this is probably awful in practice but I really want to try it because it sounds hilarious.. take a 10-20 VV with a lot of Shields and double Chainswords and run them with a Jump character with the 1W 6+ FNP for models within 6" warlord trait and charge them right up the table!

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It’s a lot of points to snipe an enemy character.

[Mobius0288]

Also 2 with 3 bikes combat squAded out from stalker bolt vets. Still don’t know what’s best to go with for these guys

 

From what I've seen, the standard tends to be 2 VV with storm shields and 3 bikes with chainswords. It's the cheapest you can make them, an overall T5 unit and a 3++ save. It's good for speed but does like some punch. The niche is its speed and can keep up with other vehicles, but that's really it unfortunately.

 

 

Also another niche to remember is that VVs are the only units we have that can charge zooming flyers. It's a very specific niche and I can't see it happening very often, but it's possible. Chaos has Daemon Princes and all we get is VV. Good or bad, it's what we got. Still, a storm bolter squad, tempest shell shot and a krak grenade may be the better choice every time.

[anarchistscourge]

Don’t forget 2d6 auto hitting frag cannons if you can get close enough

[TheBigAristotle]

I've had a lot of success in objective-based missions with using combat squads with a veteran team of 5 of Vets and 2 VV with TH/SS and 3 bikes.  A pod of 5 toughness 5 speedsters with range, SIA, ablative wounds and the ability to jump out of combat, shoot without penalty and then charge again is pretty fantastic.

[Delta.Skies]

I've had a lot of success in objective-based missions with using combat squads with a veteran team of 5 of Vets and 2 VV with TH/SS and 3 bikes. A pod of 5 toughness 5 speedsters with range, SIA, ablative wounds and the ability to jump out of combat, shoot without penalty and then charge again is pretty fantastic.

What would you equip the bikes with if the VVs are going thunder hammer

[TheBigAristotle]

just the standard twin bolters and a chainsword.

[Mr4Minutes]

Does anyone find value in giving power axes to the bikes?

 

I’m planning a 3 bikes with p axes and 2 VV with twin lightning claws, and I’m curious if anyone’s given it a shot.

[Delta.Skies]

The confusion I came across was what am I attacking with this fast moving unit (3 bikers 2 vv). I thought of equipping the VV with thunderhammer and shields but what can the bikers compensate with. Which left me at a blank. I also decided to switch up a pure VV squad with 3 LC (paired) and 2 with LC and shield. Dont see myself going all out with hammers cause they have 1 wound no abilities. Specially when I have BA detachment with hard hitting specialized units meant to do that. So its puts them in a weird spot for me other than meat shields to eat overwatch, hence the 2 shields while still being effective somehow. They were bolt pistol and chainswords but I had to take em apart for a cheap vet squad.