What's the consensus on this new Astra Militarum tank?

[Ishagu]

I love the look of this tank! Very detailed and ancient looking design. Here's the model:

 

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Carnodon-Tank-2018?utm_campaign=9685484060-FW_14th_September_Carnodon_Tank&utm_source=forgeworld.co.uk&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_a6ef0a01da-9685484060-116171961

 

And here are the 40k rules:

 

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/PDF/Downloads//Carnodon_Datasheet.pdf

[Wassa]

So the Volkite weapons are the same points as Autocannons with 1 less strength but give mortal wounds on wound rolls of 6.

 

The vehicle does seem cheap points wise, but I think I'll stick to my Leman Russes!

[Harrowmaster]

Looks interesting, mostly for maxed out lascannons but the model is expensive and it lacks grinding advance and the ability to receive tank orders, it also can't be taken in a squadron for the rare times that it might actually matter.

[MrZakalwe]

If you keep it cheap it looks like a decent investment- Heavy Bolter sponsons and Autocannon/Culverin turret would come to 100 points and give you a longer range alternative to the hellhound in the 100 point bracket. 

 

I like the look of it myself.

 

What I'd really like them to do it put out 40k rules for the basic Aurox transport vehicle.

[WarriorFish]

I agree it needs to be kept cheap, otherwise if you're happy to spend a little more may as well go for the tried and tested Russ. That or access to volkite, the other weapons it has aren't anything to get excited about.

 

I'm not really fond of the appearance of it, chunky in places feels like someone tried a bit too hard with the backwards aesthetic of Imperial vehicles. I think the turret looks nice though.

 

Interesting to see the extra justification being given for 40k use, but I suspect the limitation on his will be the real life price!

[Harrowmaster]

Yeah, the price really stings. For €85 I could get two Russ which are much easier to put together, don't have as much prep time and have no chance of air bubbles.

[Halfpint100]

I am not convinced. Autocannons might be best, but it doesn't look like anything special. 

[MrZakalwe]

Looks pretty middle of the road to me if kept cheap (not too bad, not amazing) and... I'm cool with that.

 

The last thing we want is another conqueror where the best Russ is out of production for 10+ years or an Artemia situation where the best hellhound is behind an enormous paywall.

[Feral_80]

Not really worth it in any configuration when compared to a LR, except for the signature volkite stuff which might be fun.

 

For little more than 100 points per tank, you can easily afford to field a couple of these with full voklite, each rolling 8 dice at 4+ (when static and undamaged). At D2 each and with the potential to inflict mortal wounds, they would work great against e.g. shield terminators, custodes, wraiths, etc. And they still have the potential to kill some chaff.

 

I think I will give them a try. By proxying them of course - the FW price tag of the models is simply inaccessible, out of question.

 

 

Overall I quite like the concept: strangely enough, the Guard lacks a medium tank, and this might do the job.

[point_Zer0]

SM's predators are literally crying now.

[Glute]

Yeah, the price really stings. For €85 I could get two Russ which are much easier to put together, don't have as much prep time and have no chance of air bubbles.

You could buy 2 LR's for  the price of one of these (USD).  And not have to deal with resin and imperfections.  The plastic LR have as much detail as these.

[Tirak]

The major thing that hurts this tank is the lack of mobility. All its weapons are Heavy and it has no Grinding Advance equivalent rules. Its weapon mix is flexible, though ultimately on a Guard BS, pretty useless unless you're Tallarn or Cadian.

 

The one thing I can see this being used as is a cheap Annihilator. The fully kitted Leman Russ Annihilator with Hull mounted Lascannon is 182 points. That's 5 lascannon shots per turn, though 4 of them don't care if you're moving. The max lascannon version of this tank is 140 points. That 42 point difference is pretty good, though 20 of those points do go into the extra lascannon on the Annihilator proper. It can't recieve tank orders, but who cares since to be blunt, Tank Commanders are sub optimal and nine times out of ten if you bring them, you order yourself, not another vehicle, so that's not a problem.

 

If you play Tallarn, your efficiency hunting T7/3+ is 37.4 points per damage in an Annihilator, and 36 points per damage in the Carnodon. To reference, the normal Leman Russ against the same target is 44.1 points per damage. So the Carnodon, if in a Tallarn or Cadian force, is actually a fairly efficient anti tank unit.

[MARK0SIAN]

The fact it will only ever hit on a 5+ if it moves renders it a non-starter for me. Against any armies with hit penalties it’ll just be an expensive paperweight.

 

A real shame as it’s a great model, very reasonable points for some options and would look really cool on the table.

[Chris521]

I'm personally not a huge fan of how it looks which is fine since I'm not a fan of the rules and I don't really want to purchase anything from forge world right now.  As has been stated already, not having any rule allowing it to move and shoot without a penalty really hurts it.

[Reviler]

Chris521. Just take it as tallarn, no move and shoot penalty then

[librisrouge]

It gives me sweet, sweet martian death rays in 40k. That was all I needed to know. I'm getting at least one at one point.

[-Nemesis-]

110 points with 5 multilasers for 15 shots. Not terrible.

[Beams]

The major thing that hurts this tank is the lack of mobility. All its weapons are Heavy and it has no Grinding Advance equivalent rules. Its weapon mix is flexible, though ultimately on a Guard BS, pretty useless unless you're Tallarn or Cadian.

 

The one thing I can see this being used as is a cheap Annihilator. The fully kitted Leman Russ Annihilator with Hull mounted Lascannon is 182 points. That's 5 lascannon shots per turn, though 4 of them don't care if you're moving. The max lascannon version of this tank is 140 points. That 42 point difference is pretty good, though 20 of those points do go into the extra lascannon on the Annihilator proper. It can't recieve tank orders, but who cares since to be blunt, Tank Commanders are sub optimal and nine times out of ten if you bring them, you order yourself, not another vehicle, so that's not a problem.

 

If you play Tallarn, your efficiency hunting T7/3+ is 37.4 points per damage in an Annihilator, and 36 points per damage in the Carnodon. To reference, the normal Leman Russ against the same target is 44.1 points per damage. So the Carnodon, if in a Tallarn or Cadian force, is actually a fairly efficient anti tank unit.

The leman Russ is way tankier, though, and can move and shoot without be having to be tallarn, freeing it up for more powerful abilities, like the Vostroyan +1 to hit, a or the steel legion ignore ap-1

[Lord Blackwood]

Looks great, I'm a sucker for Solar Aux tanks. 

Rules don't do it for me.

Think I would rather buy the las cannon Russ models from  forgeworld  since they  have grinding advance and they look really good as well. 

[noigrim]

Meh it looks like a predator

[Tirak]

 

The major thing that hurts this tank is the lack of mobility. All its weapons are Heavy and it has no Grinding Advance equivalent rules. Its weapon mix is flexible, though ultimately on a Guard BS, pretty useless unless you're Tallarn or Cadian.

 

The one thing I can see this being used as is a cheap Annihilator. The fully kitted Leman Russ Annihilator with Hull mounted Lascannon is 182 points. That's 5 lascannon shots per turn, though 4 of them don't care if you're moving. The max lascannon version of this tank is 140 points. That 42 point difference is pretty good, though 20 of those points do go into the extra lascannon on the Annihilator proper. It can't recieve tank orders, but who cares since to be blunt, Tank Commanders are sub optimal and nine times out of ten if you bring them, you order yourself, not another vehicle, so that's not a problem.

 

If you play Tallarn, your efficiency hunting T7/3+ is 37.4 points per damage in an Annihilator, and 36 points per damage in the Carnodon. To reference, the normal Leman Russ against the same target is 44.1 points per damage. So the Carnodon, if in a Tallarn or Cadian force, is actually a fairly efficient anti tank unit.

The leman Russ is way tankier, though, and can move and shoot without be having to be tallarn, freeing it up for more powerful abilities, like the Vostroyan +1 to hit, a or the steel legion ignore ap-1

 

 

Which is why I said it was mostly useless unless you took it as Cadian or Tallarn...

[Exilyth]

3 scout sentinels w/one multilaser each are 135 points

Carnodon w/five multilasers is 110 points

 

Trades some wounds (and scout move) for more firepower.

Could go fishing for mortal wounds with the volkite loadout for just 8 points more (keeping one ML).

 

heavy support detachment full of them could do the anti-horde part of a tank company.

 

If only it weren't for the price ...

[Feral_80]

Honestly multilaser are a waste. Worst weapon ever. Even 5 of them won't kill anything except chaff, but we should have enough lasguns for that already.

Volkite, on the other hand, is much more versatile and interesting.

 

Just go full-volkite Cadian for increased accuracy and focused fire (stratagem) on tough targets. I am still convinced that just any other configuration is a waste.

[MrZakalwe]

Honestly multilaser are a waste. Worst weapon ever. Even 5 of them won't kill anything except chaff, but we should have enough lasguns for that already.

Volkite, on the other hand, is much more versatile and interesting.

 

Just go full-volkite Cadian for increased accuracy and focused fire (stratagem) on tough targets. I am still convinced that just any other configuration is a waste.

I'm not convinced the Volkite sponsons are superior to the autocannons they share a points cost with. Turret certainly but the lower mortal wound chance on the sponsons would push me towards the ACs or even HBs to save points.

[The Titanz0r]

I can't get over how ridiculous this tank is. This thing just looks like a backwards facing, bulkier Leman Russ. Why does everything new in 40k look so goofy?  Rule of Cool only extends so far. And where does the fifth multi-laser go? There doesn't appear to be a mount for it anywhere, unless it's a pintle weapon.

 

It's also a shame that multi-lasers are trash now. It's not even the weapon's fault. It's the same profile it's always been. It's just the rules changed around it, and the other options are superior. It just needs a slight reduction in points or a minor profile adjustment.