IronDreddKnight Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 I’m just started building my first death watch 2000 point army, i have some ideas from reading on the forums. But Id like to ask you veterans directly. Which units to avoid, what builds work well, any tips are welcome :) I’ve wrote a prototype list, i was hoping for some comments and / or critiques. Death watch battalion 2000p Watch master 130 Chaplain + bolt gun 73 5 veterans 131 - 2 storm bolters, 2 storm shields - 2 storm bolters, 2 chainswords - 1 frag cannon 5 veterans 131 - 2 storm bolters, 2 storm shields - 2 storm bolters, 2 chainswords - 1 frag cannon 5 veterans 131 - 2 storm bolters, 2 storm shields - 2 storm bolters, 2 chainswords - 1 frag cannon 10 veterans 252 - 2 storm bolters, 2 storm shields - 2 storm bolters, 2 chainswords - 1 frag cannon - 4 stalker bolt guns, 4 chainswords - 1 missile launcher 5 veterans 150 - sargent : lightning claws - black shield : lightning claws - 2 shotguns, 2 storm shields - 1 heavy thinder hammer 5 veterans 150 - sargent : lightning claws - black shield : lightning claws - 2 shotguns, 2 storm shields - 1 heavy thinder hammer 4 bikers 132 - 4 power mauls, 4 twin bolt guns Corvus black star 251 - twin assault cannon, hurricane bolter, auspex array, 2 storm strike missile launchers Razorback - twin assault cannon 114 Razorback - twin assault cannon 114 Razorback - twin lascannon 120 Razorback - twin lascannon 120 Total 1999 Plan is to combat squad the 10 man veteran squad, stalkers + ML sit backfield, while the 4 fragcannon vet squads go in razorbacks, the two HTH vet squads go in the corvus along with the chaplain. Watch master uses teleportarium to DS where needed most. Bikers are support rapid response support. Thoughts and feedback would be greatly appreciated, thanks for reading :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350364-my-first-death-watch-2000-list/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistscourge Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 I would stay away from kitting your teams out for close combat. If you want a hard hitting vet team to go in Corvus then a 10 man team with 3-4 frag cannons, a power sword on Sarg and black shield with a VV and a pair of lightning claws will do wonders and will cost a bit less. Also I personally prefer double battalion which you could easily do by adding a few bare bones captains. And try to stick the bikers in with one of the vet squads and combat squad them out for a fast objective secured unit. Other than that it looks pretty tasty Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350364-my-first-death-watch-2000-list/#findComment-5168068 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDreddKnight Posted September 17, 2018 Author Share Posted September 17, 2018 Thanks for the feed back Anarchistscourge. I forgot to mention, that I don’t own any of these models yet (except the watch master) so I’ve got a clean canvas to work with. I’m building a list before I start buying models. I chose the combat units just for ‘rule of cool’ but if combat is a bad idea, I’ll stay clear :) What about 2 x5 veterans with shotguns in the corvus? Disembark, move, advance, shoot. Also I’ve seen people take a heavy bolter and missile launcher in the stalker bolter squad, for the mortal wound stratagems. So I’m going encorperate that into my list. I’ll try and make two battalions like you said. So I’ll need 3 captains (I’m dropping the chaplain because he’s a melee buffet more than anything) how would you arm 3 captains, keeping them cheap? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350364-my-first-death-watch-2000-list/#findComment-5168156 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vigitant Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 Heavy thunder hammers are overpriced by a lot. If you want to throw in a heavier melee option, regular thunder hammers do the job.Double battalion is super important. For HQ's, your list is going to be much stronger if you kit out your captains. Jump pack/Storm shield/Thunder hammer is the standard because its freakin powerful. For deathwatch, Jump pack/Stormbolter/Thunder hammer is cheaper and can still throw damage in melee and range.Consider taking a librarian, with jump pack if you can swing it. Librarians are good, and with double battalion youll have the HQ slots. Also, the corvus is a beautiful model. But its not worth its points this edition. Dropping it and switching the melee squads would give you points to fill out and equip your HQ's Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350364-my-first-death-watch-2000-list/#findComment-5168166 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDreddKnight Posted September 17, 2018 Author Share Posted September 17, 2018 Thanks vigitant, would you advise to use the teleportarium stratagem instead of the corvus? And what unit build would you advise? I quite like the idea of shotgun squads, they look mobile. But are they any good? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350364-my-first-death-watch-2000-list/#findComment-5168168 Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistscourge Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 I haven’t used shotguns because storm bolsters always seem better to me. I know the Corvus aren’t great but they are iconic and I love them so I often field them. My 5 man stalker squads always have a HB for he strategem and maybe a missle launcher if I’m light on anti vehicle. They are great backfield objective holders getting 2+ in cover. If your going to used the teleport strategem, use it on a 10 man squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350364-my-first-death-watch-2000-list/#findComment-5168170 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDreddKnight Posted September 17, 2018 Author Share Posted September 17, 2018 So what I’m thinking now is.. Battalion Watch master Watch captain : thunder hammer, master crafted bolt gun, jump pack. 5 veterans : - 2 storm bolters, chainswords - 2 storm bolters, 2 storm shields - 1 frag cannon 5 veterans : - 2 storm bolters, chainswords - 2 storm bolters, 2 storm shields - 1 frag cannon 5 veterans : - 2 storm bolters, chainswords - 2 storm bolters, 2 storm shields - 1 frag cannon 5 veterans : - 2 storm bolters, chainswords - 2 storm bolters, 2 storm shields - 1 frag cannon Razorback : twin assault cannon Razorback : twin assault cannon Razorback : twin lascannon Razorback : twin lascannon Battalion Watch captain : xeno sword, master crafted bolt gun Watch captain : xeno sword, master crafted bolt gun 5 veterans : - 3 stalker bolt guns, chainswords - 1 missile launcher - 1 heavy bolter 5 veterans : - 3 shot guns, chain swords - 2 shot guns, storm shields 5 veterans : - 3 shot guns, chain swords - 2 shot guns, storm shields Corvus black star : 2 black star missile launchers, twin assault cannon, hurricane bolters, auspex array Better? Worse? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350364-my-first-death-watch-2000-list/#findComment-5168181 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 I’d give the Watch Captain a Storm Bolter and Bane Bolts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350364-my-first-death-watch-2000-list/#findComment-5168195 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDreddKnight Posted September 17, 2018 Author Share Posted September 17, 2018 Hi Black orange, that’s a great shout, I’ll put SB and name bolts on the jump pack captain :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350364-my-first-death-watch-2000-list/#findComment-5168209 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vigitant Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 Thanks vigitant, would you advise to use the teleportarium stratagem instead of the corvus? And what unit build would you advise? I quite like the idea of shotgun squads, they look mobile. But are they any good? Absolutely on the strategem. Deep striking storm bolters with SIA are awesome. I personally use: 1 vangaurd 2xchainsword, 1 terminator SB/PS, 1 frag cannon, 2 vets shield/SB, 4 vets CS/SB, and a sergeant CS/SB. it gets the right amount of murder/protection/cost for me. You can go heavier on the frag cannons, but if you do going to 2 termies and 3 shields might be good if your doing 3-4 frags. That gets expensive, though, and really needs to get to 8" to get value. Unfortunately shotguns are a sideways shift from SIA boltguns, but are priced like an improvement. Storm bolters will out perform, and a frag cannon and 8 storm bolters gives plenty of overwatch. As for HQ's, if you're dropping ~90 pts on a guy that cant be shot at, it's absolutely worth putting another 20-30 points of wargear on him to make him a credible threat as well. It gives you more value from the character rule. paying 90 pts or so for a slightly better sergeant with a reroll aura is a lot. paying 120-130 or so for a 12" move flying hammering guy with a 3++ or SIA storm bolter that get shot off the board? thats a steal Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350364-my-first-death-watch-2000-list/#findComment-5168234 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 Thanks vigitant, would you advise to use the teleportarium stratagem instead of the corvus? And what unit build would you advise? I quite like the idea of shotgun squads, they look mobile. But are they any good? Absolutely on the strategem. Deep striking storm bolters with SIA are awesome. I personally use: 1 vangaurd 2xchainsword, 1 terminator SB/PS, 1 frag cannon, 2 vets shield/SB, 4 vets CS/SB, and a sergeant CS/SB. it gets the right amount of murder/protection/cost for me. You can go heavier on the frag cannons, but if you do going to 2 termies and 3 shields might be good if your doing 3-4 frags. That gets expensive, though, and really needs to get to 8" to get value. Unfortunately shotguns are a sideways shift from SIA boltguns, but are priced like an improvement. Storm bolters will out perform, and a frag cannon and 8 storm bolters gives plenty of overwatch. As for HQ's, if you're dropping ~90 pts on a guy that cant be shot at, it's absolutely worth putting another 20-30 points of wargear on him to make him a credible threat as well. It gives you more value from the character rule. paying 90 pts or so for a slightly better sergeant with a reroll aura is a lot. paying 120-130 or so for a 12" move flying hammering guy with a 3++ or SIA storm bolter that get shot off the board? thats a steal This is also the basis of my go-to Vet squad - it's so good. Also fits perfectly in a Corvus (if you're interested in running them). I tend to add in another Frag Cannon in place of a single CS/SB vet, and I sometimes find I can afford to kit out the sgt with a power weapon as well. I've also tried one with two guys carrying dual lightning claws in place of the frag cannons (on the sgt and subing in a black shield) while keeping everything else identical. Probably not as versatile, but definitely pretty fun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350364-my-first-death-watch-2000-list/#findComment-5168248 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDreddKnight Posted September 18, 2018 Author Share Posted September 18, 2018 Thanks again Vigitant, you two Lemondish. I’ve taken the corvus out in favour of using the teleportarium. I’m looking at the VV and his role is to allow the team to fall back and shoot, so it makes sense that he can fire as well right? What abouI’m giving him two plasma pistols instead? Then he’s not wasted in the shooting phase and I’ve only sacrificed 2 attacks from the dual CS. What do you think? It makes him expensive, but I’m protecting him with storm shields’ 3++ and a terminators 2+ I’ve also kitted out all 3 of the captains with JP TH SB Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350364-my-first-death-watch-2000-list/#findComment-5168516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vigitant Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 Thanks again Vigitant, you two Lemondish. I’ve taken the corvus out in favour of using the teleportarium. I’m looking at the VV and his role is to allow the team to fall back and shoot, so it makes sense that he can fire as well right? What abouI’m giving him two plasma pistols instead? Then he’s not wasted in the shooting phase and I’ve only sacrificed 2 attacks from the dual CS. What do you think? It makes him expensive, but I’m protecting him with storm shields’ 3++ and a terminators 2+ I’ve also kitted out all 3 of the captains with JP TH SB Boys before toys. i'd go double bolt pistol over plasma if you want him shooting. keeps the cost down. I mostly just dont like only 2 shots at 12" for 2pts. It's a matter of taste, i think Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350364-my-first-death-watch-2000-list/#findComment-5170600 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 Thanks again Vigitant, you two Lemondish. I’ve taken the corvus out in favour of using the teleportarium. I’m looking at the VV and his role is to allow the team to fall back and shoot, so it makes sense that he can fire as well right? What abouI’m giving him two plasma pistols instead? Then he’s not wasted in the shooting phase and I’ve only sacrificed 2 attacks from the dual CS. What do you think? It makes him expensive, but I’m protecting him with storm shields’ 3++ and a terminators 2+ I’ve also kitted out all 3 of the captains with JP TH SB Boys before toys. i'd go double bolt pistol over plasma if you want him shooting. keeps the cost down. I mostly just dont like only 2 shots at 12" for 2pts. It's a matter of taste, i think Agreed. Though...rule of cool should take precedence if you have nowhere else to sink those points. Dual wielding pistols is boss. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350364-my-first-death-watch-2000-list/#findComment-5170620 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDreddKnight Posted October 14, 2018 Author Share Posted October 14, 2018 I think I’ll build a few vanguards with dual pistols for my veteran squads. Sacrificing the dual chain swords, which gives me -2 attacks in melee, but then we don’t want to be in melee right? And I’ll get two more SIA shots at 12” which is where I want to be for RF. 2points seems like a good trade. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350364-my-first-death-watch-2000-list/#findComment-5173724 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 I don’t really see any use for VV TBH. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350364-my-first-death-watch-2000-list/#findComment-5173855 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDreddKnight Posted October 15, 2018 Author Share Posted October 15, 2018 I don’t really see any use for VV TBH. They allow your veteran squads to fall back and shoot. Which I believe is invaluable, in the cases where we are caught in melee. We don’t want to be in melee, but we will get caught in it occasionally as we want to be within RF range. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350364-my-first-death-watch-2000-list/#findComment-5174071 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 I think I’ll build a few vanguards with dual pistols for my veteran squads. Sacrificing the dual chain swords, which gives me -2 attacks in melee, but then we don’t want to be in melee right? And I’ll get two more SIA shots at 12” which is where I want to be for RF. 2points seems like a good trade. Just like with everything Deathwatch, you can't plan for absolutes. Avoiding melee at all costs isn't really the name of the game here. These guys aren't Firewarriors. Ask yourself why you don't want to be in combat with DW? 30 Str 4 attacks is pretty decent, if you go with a ton of chainswords. It's not a dedicated melee unit, and you don't want to rush them headlong into a real melee powerhouse - but having said that, don't be afraid to mix it up on the charge to surround a tank, or take on bubble wrap. With decent positioning, you might end up being immune to shooting for a turn. Wherever or however you deploy them, whether it's deep strike or transport, there will be times where the extra movement from charging a screen or silencing a heavy hitting unit in combat is valuable. I think it happens in three out of four games I play. Extra movement from the charge, pile in, and consolidation is stupid useful, especially if you can three point a chaff model. You don't want to have to choose doing that or shooting next turn, but a VV means I don't have to make that choice. The tactical flexibility is well worth the modest 1 point premium over a barebones Veteran. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350364-my-first-death-watch-2000-list/#findComment-5174617 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDreddKnight Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 Great point about using the charge as extra movement, that can really speed up our infantry. Many thanks :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350364-my-first-death-watch-2000-list/#findComment-5174639 Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistscourge Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 @lemondish I couldn’t agree more. Question is what’s the best load out for VV? I generally take twin LC although I’m starting to think dual pistols may be better Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350364-my-first-death-watch-2000-list/#findComment-5174646 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 @lemondish I couldn’t agree more. Question is what’s the best load out for VV? I generally take twin LC although I’m starting to think dual pistols may be betterThere are a lot of different options I've found to be pretty great, but it depends on how spendy you want to get. The cheapest is obviously barebones with two chainswords and he becomes your grenade guy (whatever that may be worth to you), but for a single point you can give him a bolt pistol instead so he isn't completely useless outside of 6". Double bolt pistols is also valuable, basically giving him the same offensive output as a boltgun. Plasma pistols turn him into an Inceptor-lite while LCs really double down on the killing chaff role (which is great). If they're part of the faster bike/VV combat squad, I've found thunder hammer/SS are worth the investment. In my normal competitive storm bolter Vet squads, I just go with the bolt pistol/chainsword. Gives a good model to select if you need a Tempest shell in a pinch without sacrificing a model with more damage potential at range Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350364-my-first-death-watch-2000-list/#findComment-5174800 Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistscourge Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Good points. Yeah must say in my bike/VV combat squad I am torn between BP/SS or TH/SS Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350364-my-first-death-watch-2000-list/#findComment-5174808 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDreddKnight Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 Good points. Yeah must say in my bike/VV combat squad I am torn between BP/SS or TH/SSAfter what’s been said, I’m thinking BP/SS would be best suited to a VV in a bike squad. It contributes to shooting, opens up the tempest shell strat without loosing any output. But the biggest problem I see with TH/SS is the model is there as an ablative 3++ and we don’t want to lose expensive models/equipment in meat shields. :) I’m know considering a veteran squad like the following.. Sargent - stalker bolt gun, chain sword Veteran - stalker bolt gun, chain sword Veteran - stalker bolt gun, chain sword Veteran - missile launcher Veteran - heavy bolter Biker - twin bolt gun, power maul Biker - twin bolt gun, power maul Biker - twin bolt gun, power maul Biker - twin bolt gun, power maul Vanguard - bolt pistol, storm shield Team combat squads, bikers + vv synergises really well, they move, shoot, charge, fall back, shoot, charge, repeat! Veterans use mortal wound strats and sit back field. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350364-my-first-death-watch-2000-list/#findComment-5175260 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeChisler Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 A lot is made of the mortal wound strategies but with the FAQ listing regeneration of points to 1 per battle round and prepared positions you don't have the CP to use them + prepared positions I've switched to the ignores cover warlord trait and am running fatter primaris mixes to maximise our reduce to wound strategies, the bike VV squads range around while the stalkers objective / building camp. Aside from a watch master my other hq's are Captains with thunder hammers SS and jump packs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350364-my-first-death-watch-2000-list/#findComment-5175276 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDreddKnight Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 Aside from a watch master my other hq's are Captains with thunder hammers SS and jump packs. I’ve got a watch master, and jump captain. I’ve also built a terminator captain wielding power fist + auxiliary meltagun, combi melta and a grenade launcher. My think was to give him “bane of monstrosities” WT and make him my monster / vehicle killer. 4 power fist attacks, 2 melta shots, and I could even throw in a tempest shell if needed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350364-my-first-death-watch-2000-list/#findComment-5175308 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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