ChazSexington Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 So, what does everyone make of the FAQ changes? Overall, I'm somewhat happy. It at least shows GW's aware of certain Imperial combinations and identified some problems. The Fly keyword change makes sense from a game design PoV, but I wish they hadn't changed the ability to fly over units in the Assault Phase - it detracts from muh immersion. A better way, imho, to adresse this would be a slight point increase for CC Fly units in CA. I quite like Tactical Restraint, the CP increases and changes to most of the Stratagems (especially Agents of Vects). However, as an Alpha Legion player...I understand the changes to the Alpha Legion/Stygies VIII/RG from a pure game design perspective (preventing all forms of deploying outside your DZ pre-T2); let's be honest, they didn't nerf the Alpha Legion because they dominated tournaments a year ago. It does feel decidedly unfluffy, which is the worst part; it feels like it should be called Unchecked Aggression and made a World Eaters Stratagem. The combination of that and Prepared Positions means it doesn't feel like it's worth paying 1 CP for a 9" charge at the cost of losing a better cover save. I know the range can be mitigated with Warptime, but that can only be used once and its target has an insane opportunity cost. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350512-faq-2-alpha-legion-boohoo/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonlover Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 What's the Fly change? I did read the FAQ but I must have missed that. Dragonlover Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350512-faq-2-alpha-legion-boohoo/#findComment-5171789 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 The Alpha Legion and Raven Guard changes basically both have the same issue of actually improving internal balance between chapters/legions while only increasing the irrelevance of the faction as a whole. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350512-faq-2-alpha-legion-boohoo/#findComment-5171800 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 What's the Fly change? I did read the FAQ but I must have missed that. Dragonlover FLY only works in the movement phase now. So no ignoring vertical distances and no ignoring units&terrain for charges anymore. Yes that's right, the Heldrake lands to charge now lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350512-faq-2-alpha-legion-boohoo/#findComment-5171803 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aothaine Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Yes that's right, the Heldrake lands to charge now lol To be fair, I always envisioned it just smashing into the lines whenever it charged anyway. It is more of a flying Daemon model than a vehicle imho. I did feel the pain on the SFTS(and similar tactics options) though. But it appears to have been a change to help curtail competitive play. In casual games I'm still going to use it how it used to be. One of the great things about this game is you can change the rules to whatever you want if you and your opponent agree. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350512-faq-2-alpha-legion-boohoo/#findComment-5172133 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon Prince Marbas Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 I like the Alpha Legion change, it helped the internal balance of the codex a lot. The Fly nerf is weird to me but I understand why they did it as Slamguinius and Jump Pack Wolf Lords were making screens irrelevant. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350512-faq-2-alpha-legion-boohoo/#findComment-5172323 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scourged Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 I agree with the change to my Legion. That's not to say I like it (I mean, who likes having a toy taken away...?), but I understand and agree with the change. The replacement ability is... Meh. Might be fun if used to slingshot Possessed or Raptors (lol), or snag an objective early... But that's about it. On the bright side, I'm the only one in my group who was even remotely affected by the faq, so that's nice I guess. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350512-faq-2-alpha-legion-boohoo/#findComment-5172767 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 My idea for FO now is to use it to move shooting with short- or mid-range weapons into covered positions. Things like heavy bolter Havocs and multi-plasma CSM squads will enjoy starting off with their guns being 9" closer to the enemy. It's just a theory, though. I'm so disgusted by the nerf and disheartened by my Iron Hands' performance that I pulled my Eldar out of storage... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350512-faq-2-alpha-legion-boohoo/#findComment-5172826 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokugawa Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 AL cultists horde may not charge Turn1 after the FAQ; however, at Turn1 they could still enter the rapid-fire range, and deliver Cacophony+Votlw. And AL players still have warptime as the backup plan. AL cultists get nerfed, of course, but they are still playable. AL Zerkers(on foot)/RG Aggressors/Sty8 Priests have different situation: they get nerfed, and became unplayable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350512-faq-2-alpha-legion-boohoo/#findComment-5172906 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 AL Zerkers(on foot)/RG Aggressors/Sty8 Priests have different situation: they get nerfed, and became unplayable. Not really. They got nerfed but they are far from unplayable. Zerkers are still good and you can still use Warptime on them as well. RG Aggressors still get within 18" of the opponent via the Stratagem so they can still double shoot turn 1 and wreck most things. Only thing they can't do anymore is to charge turn 1. I've never seen Stygies VIII nor Electropriests being played to be honest so I don't think much changed for most AdMech player here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350512-faq-2-alpha-legion-boohoo/#findComment-5172945 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron_Within Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Forward Operatives was abusive, as was the Raven Guard version. I think GW realise the ridiculous power of the Alpha Strike and are trying to combat it. There are more abusive things for sure, but 20 Khorne Berzerkers starting 9" away then moving was nasty and a bit stupid. the FAQ was Nerfageddon, everything got nerfed, nothing got a boost. I suspect Chapter Approved will be where things are improved. However Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines need a serious boost. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350512-faq-2-alpha-legion-boohoo/#findComment-5172957 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Ynarri/eldar are the only ones with fly now. Yaaay. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350512-faq-2-alpha-legion-boohoo/#findComment-5173073 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon Prince Marbas Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Forward Operatives and Strike From The Shadows were overly abused. Now they are an asset but not a win button. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350512-faq-2-alpha-legion-boohoo/#findComment-5173177 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChazSexington Posted October 14, 2018 Author Share Posted October 14, 2018 AL cultists horde may not charge Turn1 after the FAQ; however, at Turn1 they could still enter the rapid-fire range, and deliver Cacophony+Votlw. And AL players still have warptime as the backup plan. AL cultists get nerfed, of course, but they are still playable. AL Zerkers(on foot)/RG Aggressors/Sty8 Priests have different situation: they get nerfed, and became unplayable. We can still T1 charge, it's just a 9" charge. 9"+6"= 15" (Granted the opponent was dumb enough to deploy on the line). Warptime was always our strongest Psychic Power by a country mile; using it on Cultists for an extra 6" is an absolute waste in most case. While AL Berzerkers got nerfed hard, they are now best as World Eaters, without a shred of doubt. They can still be given the Khorne Icon for re-rolling charges, but a Rhino with a +1 save first turn to get them there seems a safer bet. I agree with the change to my Legion. That's not to say I like it (I mean, who likes having a toy taken away...?), but I understand and agree with the change. The replacement ability is... Meh. Might be fun if used to slingshot Possessed or Raptors (lol), or snag an objective early... But that's about it. On the bright side, I'm the only one in my group who was even remotely affected by the faq, so that's nice I guess. My issue is the replacement Stratagem doesn't fit the Alpha Legion. It feels way more like it should be the World Eaters' Stratagem. Nobody in your group plays BAs/Aeldari/Knights/RG? A bit surprised! Forward Operatives was abusive, as was the Raven Guard version. I think GW realise the ridiculous power of the Alpha Strike and are trying to combat it. There are more abusive things for sure, but 20 Khorne Berzerkers starting 9" away then moving was nasty and a bit stupid. the FAQ was Nerfageddon, everything got nerfed, nothing got a boost. I suspect Chapter Approved will be where things are improved. However Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines need a serious boost. Forward Operatives and Strike From The Shadows were overly abused. Now they are an asset but not a win button. Forward Operatives was fine, tbh. We haven't seen it dominate tournaments for a whole year, and it was easily stopped by smartly-placed screens. There were more elegant ways of nerfing it than this, such as increasing the cost of FO to be dependent on the PL. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350512-faq-2-alpha-legion-boohoo/#findComment-5173564 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scourged Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Hah, I guess we're a group of misfit armies. Beyond me, I play with Wolves, Necrons, Ad Mech, Emperor's Children, Salamanders, and DAngels. We all have knights, we just never use em. We're a fluffy bunch, I s'pose. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350512-faq-2-alpha-legion-boohoo/#findComment-5174253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engineer Lescaz Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 I discussed that with my playgroup a few days ago.The nerf to the AL/RG/Sty8 stratagem is not that problematic. It will open new opportunities for shooting instead of charging, or it can be used to hide some units which would be in plain sight due to the initial DZ (but I agree that it was not thta overpowered)The other big change, which should be effective in CA2018 (rumours?), is the change to the -1 to hit at 12" and more, which will be changed to +1 to cover ...This one is meant to nerf "Alaitoc Eldar" which is too powerful due to synergies with the seer powers / stratagems / autarch shenanigans etc... They could easily stack a -2 or -3 to hit on 2 or 3 units, while the others ones are firing and fading, etc...It becomes really problematic if you don't have any close combat solution in your list to counter this.Unfortunately this additional nerf will affect AL/RG/Sty8 as well... Today i'm glad too be an Iron Warrior and be able to ignore cover Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350512-faq-2-alpha-legion-boohoo/#findComment-5174699 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 How do you know that change is coming in CA? Or is that your best guess? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350512-faq-2-alpha-legion-boohoo/#findComment-5174794 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Haven't seen that anywhere. Is it a rumour? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350512-faq-2-alpha-legion-boohoo/#findComment-5174862 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekhitar Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 I heard that rumor too (no official confirmation - but it wouldn’t surprise me). Do you think it will be limited to units that move? If not... berserkers with 2+ armor, I’d use any day of the week. I don’t mind the change to the alpha legion strat too much. I will miss it on cultists, but now I will just have to target them with warptime and hope it holds up. My opponents were getting far too good at move blocking, so that my initial charges only really had chaff to target anyway. (Maybe I just never really learned to use the strat properly.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350512-faq-2-alpha-legion-boohoo/#findComment-5176199 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 I think cover instead of to-hit penalty has been a rumour ever since the first subfaction with an army-wide cover bonus got released (I think Tyranids?) and got reinforced by no other subfaction having army-wide to-hit penalties ever since. However it doesn't seem like GW knows what they want. Tyranids have free cover as long as they just don't advance, T'au have free cover as long as they don't move in any way or form possible. Two VERY different applications of basically the same thought power-wise. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350512-faq-2-alpha-legion-boohoo/#findComment-5176239 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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