Charlo Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Discuss... https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/warhammer_40000_the_big_faq_2_en.pdf The main changes that affect us are: No reserves can arrived first turn Upon Wings of Fire Stratagem changed to 2CP (was 1) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350515-ba-the-big-faq-2/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 I like that the beta rules have been streamlined, but I rue the lack of alpha strike in Matched Play. UWoF hurts other Jump units more than Captain Smash (this is a typically reactive change, like the Commissars change was - at least GW are consistent I suppose...) A cover save if we go second is nice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350515-ba-the-big-faq-2/#findComment-5171828 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Don't forget about FLY only working in the movement phase now. So no cheeky vertical distance ignoring charges anymore and no jumping over models and terrain for charges anymore either. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350515-ba-the-big-faq-2/#findComment-5171831 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted October 11, 2018 Author Share Posted October 11, 2018 Don't forget about FLY only working in the movement phase now. So no cheeky vertical distance ignoring charges anymore and no jumping over models and terrain for charges anymore either. That was always ambiguous at best, so makes sense to be clarified. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350515-ba-the-big-faq-2/#findComment-5171850 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Don't forget about FLY only working in the movement phase now. So no cheeky vertical distance ignoring charges anymore and no jumping over models and terrain for charges anymore either. That was always ambiguous at best, so makes sense to be clarified. They replaced one stupid heavy handed solution with a different one. What is so difficult about calculating the distance between the starting and end point for units with fly and calculating the path along surfaces for the rest? That way fly units could circumvent obstacles without shortening the distance. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350515-ba-the-big-faq-2/#findComment-5171856 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Don't forget about FLY only working in the movement phase now. So no cheeky vertical distance ignoring charges anymore and no jumping over models and terrain for charges anymore either. That was always ambiguous at best, so makes sense to be clarified. It's not clarified. It's changed. That's part of the Errata, not the FAQ. And while the 0" charges from terrain might have been a bit ambiguous (regardless of whether I agree it was or not) it doesn't justify removing their ability to jump over models and terrain in the charge phase. EDIT: typo Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350515-ba-the-big-faq-2/#findComment-5171863 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted October 11, 2018 Author Share Posted October 11, 2018 Don't forget about FLY only working in the movement phase now. So no cheeky vertical distance ignoring charges anymore and no jumping over models and terrain for charges anymore either. That was always ambiguous at best, so makes sense to be clarified. It's not clarified. It's changed. That's part of the Errata, not the FAQ. And while the 0" charges from terrain might have been a bit amiguous (regardless of whether I agree it was or not) it doesn't justify removing their ability to jump over models and terrain in the charge phase. Clarified by a change ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350515-ba-the-big-faq-2/#findComment-5171867 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont-Be-Haten Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Several of us have been talking about rhino rush being a thing again. Have 4 rhinos 9-10 strong full of DC and VVs followed by a nice blob of JP DC combined with Forlorn Fury. Here's a preliminary list I've been toying with. ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) [69 PL, 1140pts] ++ + HQ + Brother Corbulo [5 PL, 94pts] Chaplain [6 PL, 97pts]: 5. Gift of Foresight, Jump Pack, Plasma pistol, The Angel's Wing (replaces jump pack), Warlord + Troops + Scout Squad [4 PL, 65pts] . Scout: Heavy bolter . Scout: Boltgun . Scout: Boltgun . Scout: Boltgun . Scout Sergeant: Boltgun, Chainsword Scout Squad [4 PL, 65pts] . Scout: Heavy bolter . Scout: Boltgun . Scout: Boltgun . Scout: Boltgun . Scout Sergeant: Boltgun, Chainsword Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts] . Scout: Boltgun . Scout: Boltgun . Scout: Boltgun . Scout: Boltgun . Scout Sergeant: Boltgun, Chainsword + Elites + Vanguard Veteran Squad [14 PL, 188pts] . Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Storm shield . Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Storm shield . Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Storm shield . Space Marine Veteran: Bolt pistol and chainsword . Space Marine Veteran: Bolt pistol and chainsword . Space Marine Veteran: Bolt pistol and chainsword . Space Marine Veteran: Bolt pistol and chainsword . Space Marine Veteran: Bolt pistol and chainsword . Space Marine Veteran: Bolt pistol and chainsword . Veteran Sergeant: Lightning Claw, Storm shield Vanguard Veteran Squad [14 PL, 188pts] . Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Storm shield . Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Storm shield . Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Storm shield . Space Marine Veteran: Bolt pistol and chainsword . Space Marine Veteran: Bolt pistol and chainsword . Space Marine Veteran: Bolt pistol and chainsword . Space Marine Veteran: Bolt pistol and chainsword . Space Marine Veteran: Bolt pistol and chainsword . Space Marine Veteran: Bolt pistol and chainsword . Veteran Sergeant: Lightning Claw, Storm shield + Dedicated Transport + Razorback [5 PL, 120pts]: Twin lascannon Razorback [5 PL, 120pts]: Twin lascannon Rhino [4 PL, 74pts]: 2x Storm bolter Rhino [4 PL, 74pts]: 2x Storm bolter ++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) [71 PL, 860pts] ++ + HQ + Tycho the Lost [4 PL, 70pts] + Elites + Death Company [16 PL, 153pts] . Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword . Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword . Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword . Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword . Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword . Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword . Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword . Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword . Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword Death Company [27 PL, 336pts]: Jump Pack . Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Power fist . Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Power fist . Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Power fist . Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword . Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword . Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword . Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword . Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword . Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword . Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword . Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword . Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword . Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword . Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword . Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword Death Company [16 PL, 153pts] . Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword . Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword . Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword . Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword . Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword . Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword . Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword . Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword . Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword + Dedicated Transport + Rhino [4 PL, 74pts]: 2x Storm bolter Rhino [4 PL, 74pts]: 2x Storm bolter ++ Total: [140 PL, 2000pts] ++ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350515-ba-the-big-faq-2/#findComment-5171902 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lash144 Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Don't forget about FLY only working in the movement phase now. So no cheeky vertical distance ignoring charges anymore and no jumping over models and terrain for charges anymore either. The second part is imo the real kicker. I think everyone expected a change regarding measuring the charge distance, but not beeing able to charge over screens is a real kick in the butt ^^ So basically we need lots of dakka before our captains and stuff can get to work at the enemies juicy targets. Any suggestions? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350515-ba-the-big-faq-2/#findComment-5171907 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont-Be-Haten Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Don't forget about FLY only working in the movement phase now. So no cheeky vertical distance ignoring charges anymore and no jumping over models and terrain for charges anymore either.The second part is imo the real kicker. I think everyone expected a change regarding measuring the charge distance, but not beeing able to charge over screens is a real kick in the butt ^^ So basically we need lots of dakka before our captains and stuff can get to work at the enemies juicy targets. Any suggestions? Rhino rush is a strong possibility as well as Razorbacks and MSU assault. FLY is simply going back to previous editions so you just have to accommodate for that. If you wanting to play pure astartes/BA then I highly recommend keeping some JPs but moving to alternative usage of CP. In my above list I dont take captain smash, my theory is built around weight of dice, and corbulo increasing those chances to hit with additional 6+s taking DC & VVs with chainswords offers more base line attacks while benefitting RT and the Red Grail. Of course we could drop the storm shields for power swords, or move points around. Like I said, it's a preliminary list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350515-ba-the-big-faq-2/#findComment-5171910 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 I'll go with Inceptors to clear screens just as before. Then again I don't have THAT many options as Primaris player ... and don't have any melee units with FLY anyway. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350515-ba-the-big-faq-2/#findComment-5171920 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolchiate Remembrancer Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 A cover save if we go second is nice. Except when facing "ignores cover" ;) woe is me!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350515-ba-the-big-faq-2/#findComment-5172110 Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquamarine Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Looking towards moving away more from an assault army to a more balanced / shooty army with some heavy hitters to go in when screens and chaff are cleared and decent charges can be set up. Was kinda moving in this direction already. More of an Omega strike than an Alpha strike. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350515-ba-the-big-faq-2/#findComment-5172365 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spagunk Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Sorry to be a negative noodle but I've already moved away completely from assault. There aren't enough shooting strats to win out vs. a lot of armies out there. CSM running alpha legion trait is pretty hard as well as anything eldar related. Things are just not in the right place for marines in general with BA being harder as all our strats are assault based. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350515-ba-the-big-faq-2/#findComment-5172403 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lash144 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Sorry to be a negative noodle but I've already moved away completely from assault. There aren't enough shooting strats to win out vs. a lot of armies out there. CSM running alpha legion trait is pretty hard as well as anything eldar related. Things are just not in the right place for marines in general with BA being harder as all our strats are assault based. There are some rumors that the generic -1 to hit trait for Alpha Legion, Stygies and Co. is being changed to a cover save with the upcoming CA. But take this with a grain of salt. Regarding post FAQ BA: Has anyone considered running kind of a Deathball army or something like that? Read an article from Nick Nanavati and he is right that we have great character support: FnP Banner, Corbulo, Captains etc.. So maybe we could brainstorm some ideas for that? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350515-ba-the-big-faq-2/#findComment-5172604 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Sorry to be a negative noodle but I've already moved away completely from assault. There aren't enough shooting strats to win out vs. a lot of armies out there. CSM running alpha legion trait is pretty hard as well as anything eldar related. Things are just not in the right place for marines in general with BA being harder as all our strats are assault based. There are some rumors that the generic -1 to hit trait for Alpha Legion, Stygies and Co. is being changed to a cover save with the upcoming CA. But take this with a grain of salt. Unlikely. That change would've been included in the BIG FAQ/Errata the same way they changed their infiltration Stratagem into a scout Stratagem. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350515-ba-the-big-faq-2/#findComment-5172671 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluejayJunior Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Sorry to be a negative noodle but I've already moved away completely from assault. There aren't enough shooting strats to win out vs. a lot of armies out there. CSM running alpha legion trait is pretty hard as well as anything eldar related. Things are just not in the right place for marines in general with BA being harder as all our strats are assault based. There are some rumors that the generic -1 to hit trait for Alpha Legion, Stygies and Co. is being changed to a cover save with the upcoming CA. But take this with a grain of salt. Unlikely. That change would've been included in the BIG FAQ/Errata the same way they changed their infiltration Stratagem into a scout Stratagem. Not if it's going to be part of a larger reworking of the SM and CSM traits and stratagems. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350515-ba-the-big-faq-2/#findComment-5172705 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Sorry to be a negative noodle but I've already moved away completely from assault. There aren't enough shooting strats to win out vs. a lot of armies out there. CSM running alpha legion trait is pretty hard as well as anything eldar related. Things are just not in the right place for marines in general with BA being harder as all our strats are assault based. There are some rumors that the generic -1 to hit trait for Alpha Legion, Stygies and Co. is being changed to a cover save with the upcoming CA. But take this with a grain of salt. Unlikely. That change would've been included in the BIG FAQ/Errata the same way they changed their infiltration Stratagem into a scout Stratagem. Not if it's going to be part of a larger reworking of the SM and CSM traits and stratagems. In that case there would have been no point in putting the infiltration Stratagem change into the BIG FAQ. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350515-ba-the-big-faq-2/#findComment-5172708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The4thHorseman Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Been toying with the idea of 5 Man Plasma Company Vets w/JP and Smash Hammer Bike Capt. FF the Bike Capt. And UWoF the Plasma Company Vets so they can be in Rapid Fire range to Blast a Hole big enough for Bike Capt to get in. Then on T2 Hammer Capt w/JP and another 5 man Plasma Company Vets Squad come in together. Hopefully that should be a nice 1-2 punch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350515-ba-the-big-faq-2/#findComment-5172737 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lash144 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 To be fair: Considering the most logical approach isn't always the best bet with gw :p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350515-ba-the-big-faq-2/#findComment-5172739 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 In that case there would have been no point in putting the infiltration Stratagem change into the BIG FAQ. Due to the new prohibition to deep strike the stratagem had to change immediately or they would have to say that it does not work anymore/still works. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350515-ba-the-big-faq-2/#findComment-5172761 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 In that case there would have been no point in putting the infiltration Stratagem change into the BIG FAQ. Due to the new prohibition to deep strike the stratagem had to change immediately or they would have to say that it does not work anymore/still works. The Stratagems never said anything about the unit getting placed in reserves tho so they didn't have to change it necessarily. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350515-ba-the-big-faq-2/#findComment-5172763 Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother_b Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Core rules should never change because of tournament players and tournament results. It's up to tournament organizers to set down rules that need to be addressed per tournament. I'll leave it at that, I understand others feel differently. That's fine. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350515-ba-the-big-faq-2/#findComment-5172792 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 I don't think I agree. When tournament player make aware of a big problem within the core rules then it should get changed. However GW often changes core rules when it's actually an army specific problem that needs to get fixed and THAT is the wrong approach. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350515-ba-the-big-faq-2/#findComment-5172795 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont-Be-Haten Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 I will say army wide -1 to hit on an entire Eldar Army is really too strong. As of now Ork's cant even shoot some of them. I suspect we will see some tweaking/changes. As far as how I feel about the change to fly it just goes back to needing a well rounded army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350515-ba-the-big-faq-2/#findComment-5172831 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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