Need help with blood angels.

[Schwills]

Hey guys,

I have recently just got into 30k and have decided to go with blood angels.

 

I have played a couple of games so far against my buddy who is doing Custodes. 

 

The first game went well, I ran the day of revelations rite of war and as a result was able to out maneuver his squads as they can down from deep strike and pick my battles when I wanted them. Using a herald and the rite of war allowed me to go at the same time as his custodes and whittle then down a fair amount, or fully with a couple of power axes in the squads. 

 

The second game we played did not go well at all. He brought along the custodes tribune and as a result could pick his warlord trait and he infiltrated up three different killy squads, one of which being valdor and some guard, another being the tribune and some heteron guard. He also took two squads of bikes with the S6 armourbane AP2 weapons and a shooty telemon. He tabled me turn 3 basically. I didn't kill anything really and didn't roll poorly - just felt outclassed a little. 

 

So i'm at a bit of a crossroad, my assault marines while fluffy, just bounce off his more veteran units and they cost too much to do that. Should I favour a slightly firepower oriented list (Although this kind of saddens me being a blood angel player and all) 

 

I would just like make sure I am going in the right direction. Don't want to buy and paint up a bunch of assault marines if they will just be useless against custodes every time, so was wondering if anyone had any inside knowledge on a fluffy but capable unit I could go with to give me the core of my force. 

 

I understand Custodes are known for being tough, however there must be a chance to beat them or atleast stand a chance? Are there any rite of wars I should look at that would be both fluffy and effective? Any help would be appreciated! Blood angel players or not, just need some advice. Thanks. 

[swordofmandulis]

Hey man, it's you Custodes playing buddy here

[Vykes]

Heyas mates. Hah, sorry for being a touch late, eh? Ah the custodes tribune, eh? Man, all I can really speak to is experience with doing the exact same thing and having it happen again... and again... and again. Custodes are kinda hard as nails.

 

I've used a lot of the Day of Revelation and Angels Wrath and both ways needed that extra couple power axes and power fists in my assault squads (more because they were there) to really even the odds. But fighting Custodes in hand to hand is a hard prospect though Angels can do it. Honestly, large groups of legionnaires with chainswords was a way to at least do something to slip through a few wounds. Custodes aren't particularly vulnerable to destroyers rad weapons but it might tip some combats as a worthy support squad;  phosphex and blasts don't do as much due to their sodality coherency rules, and even grav weapons don't slow them much so a grav-flux on a levvy won't be as dangerous.

 

Yer mate, Swordy seems cool in toning down what needs to be toned down, but 25% price hike is kinda normal. Like, the infiltrate is a harsh one, tribune is tough, jetbikes are mean, everything is but yeah. To get them in range, to crack open some armour, the best I can think of is something like it terminators with power axes or seekers in a storm eagle to try to exert some local battlefield control. Aside from just the usual anti-terminator plasma stuff (or the likely temporary Blood Angels moritat special with twin inferno pistols being potentially able to wipe a smallish Custodes squad) it's a tough one without relying on a bit of luck (Kheres Mortis contemptor/Sicaran rending). I do like using things like Storm Eagles as they can exert some real control and bring in some dangerous squads in a modicum of safety and mobility.

[swordofmandulis]

Thanks for your commemts Vykes.

 

Here is my list for tomorrow's game at 3k

 

HQ

Valdor

Krole

Oblivion knight Centura

 

Troops

3 X custodian

3 X custodian

3 X sentinel with gauntlets

 

Elites

Contemptor Achillus

4 X Hetaeron (2 paragon 2 fist)

 

Fast Attack

3 X Agamatus with adrathic

3 X Agamatus with corvae las

 

Heavy Support

Caladius with Accelerators

Telemon with double Caestus

 

It's coming in at just under 2900, I'm a little reluctant to tone down the list AND take a 20-25% point hike all at the same time so let's see how this one plays out.

 

My tribune last game just had paragon spear, no shield, but he was still a beast, being able to select your warlord trait is very nice, but happy to leave that at home, like Schwills said, we are just figuring things out at the mo, although t was easy to figure out that the double Arachnus Telemon was completely insane

[Vykes]

Eh, no worries mate.  Custodes are tough but it's kinda like playing against Mechanicus for Legion players, it requires a bit of a different mindset and toolbox compared to other legion opponents: custodes have the armour like a terminator army while mechanicums have the toughness and wounds.  Ain't nothing wrong.  I do think that a really high tuned 'tournament' style list for custodes is underpriced but we're talking about exaggerating a lot of their top end units.  I'd say keep to that 2900, try it a few times, and adjust it for what ya think.  

 

I mean, there's 16 'infantry' there, mostly infiltrate and mostly on foot, so the 'quick' Legions kinda gotta do what fast legions gotta do: establish some battlefield control and use the maneuverability to overwhelm units quickly.  Something even like a drop pod with a plasma section tends to remove threats.  So Schwills, mate, whatcha got in your toolbox that we can work with?

[LtDan]

Plasma, lascannons, medusa, typhoon, demo cannons are your friends. Custards are hard but beatable. Play to the objective. Score and don't always worry about killing them.

I played them last game at 2k. Ambush and they siezed. Still won. But have to play hard.

[Slips]

Also, a thing to consider is, if your buddy Sword here is ok with it, you could take the Photonic Blade Relic on your HQ. Its fleshbane so always wounding on a 2+ and is natively AP2. Blind, Fear (eh not at all) and Soulblaze are basically just extras that will probably not come into play but might be helpful if they work out.

 

Otherwise, make use of the fact that Legion Champions can now also take Paragon Blades. That gives you extra Ap2 at-initiative that can also cause Instant Death.

 

A Librarian rolling on Biomancy for endurance can also be useful if you haven't been giving your Assault Marines Apothecaries for FNP5+ since, if you get it can successfully cast it, its EW and a 4+ FNP on the squad. The Librarian himself can also take a Force Axe (for Instant Death with Force up) or a Blade of Perdition. He does have SoS in his list which makes this a tougher prospect.

 

Speaking of Blade of Perdition, definitely take them on any Consul/Praetors you have that aren't taking Paragon Blades or the Photonic Blade mentioned above. No Strength Mod (but encarmine fury basically means you're wounding on 4s vs T5) but every wound you deal counts as 2 that need to be saved separately. It being Ap2, Master-Crafted and At-initiative means that, until the character dies, they can pile on a fair few saves on the Custodes Units.

 

A thing to note about your buddies list above is that the Bikes are actually one of the weakest Custodes Melee Units in their army list since all they have is Power Lances. So Ap3 on the charge, Ap4 otherwise so if they are just shooting you off the board, tarpitting them is actually a viable thing you can do since, iirc, they do not have Hit And Run.

 

His Telemon having Double Caestus means he has Plasma Flamers and a fair amount of S10 Super-Punches. Basically, never get close to it and/or just do what you can to shoot it off the table. Its 4++ is going to make that harder but, hey.

 

Start looking into Plasma Support Squads if you haven't already. Expensive and probably going to get shot off the board after they land and do what they can on arrival (if in a pod) but might do enough to turn the tables in your favor.

 

If you can avoid it, never get into combat with Haeteron Guard and/or Valdor if at all possible. This might be difficult to do though but its something you should at least keep in mind.

 

Now, I dont know what the state of your collection is but since you do want to run DoR, Angels, Orbital or something similar and make use of Assault Marines, here's what I would try to gear up towards:

 

+++ 3k Blood Angels (Warhammer 30,000 - The Horus Heresy) [3000pts] +++

 

++  Crusade (Legiones Astartes: Age of Darkness Army List) [3000pts] ++

 

+ HQ +

 

Chaplain [125pts]: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Jump Pack, Refractor Field

. Chainsword or Combat Blade: Combat Blade

. Consul

. . Chaplain: Power Axe

 

Forge Lord [160pts]: Artificer Armour, Blade of Perdition, Jump Pack, Refractor Field

. Chainsword or Combat Blade: Combat Blade

. Consul

. . Forge Lord: Cyber-familiar, Rad Grenades, Servo Arm

 

Praetor, Legion [210pts]: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Digital Lasers, Iron Halo, Jump Pack

. Chainsword or Combat Blade: Combat Blade

. Relics of the Dark Age of Technology: Photonic Blade

 

+ Elites +

 

Apothecarion Detachment [75pts]

. Apothecary, Legion: Augury Scanner, Jump Pack, Power Armour, Power Sword

 

Apothecarion Detachment [75pts]

. Apothecary, Legion: Augury Scanner, Jump Pack, Power Armour, Power Sword

 

Apothecarion Detachment [75pts]

. Apothecary, Legion: Augury Scanner, Jump Pack, Power Armour, Power Sword

 

+ Troops +

 

Assault Squad, Legion , Compulsory [350pts]: 14x Assault Space Marines, Legion

. Additional Wargear: Combat Shields, 3x Power Axe

. Assault Sergeant, Legion: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Melta Bombs, Thunder Hammer

. Standard Wargear

. . Chainsword or Combat Blade: Chainsword

 

Assault Squad, Legion , Compulsory [350pts]: 14x Assault Space Marines, Legion

. Additional Wargear: Combat Shields, 3x Power Axe

. Assault Sergeant, Legion: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Melta Bombs, Thunder Hammer

. Standard Wargear

. . Chainsword or Combat Blade: Chainsword

 

Assault Squad, Legion , Compulsory [350pts]: 14x Assault Space Marines, Legion

. Additional Wargear: Combat Shields, 3x Power Axe

. Assault Sergeant, Legion: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Melta Bombs, Thunder Hammer

. Standard Wargear

. . Chainsword or Combat Blade: Chainsword

 

Tactical Support Squad, Legion Plasma Gun [320pts]: Plasma gun, 8x Space Marines, Legion, Support Squad

. Sergeant, Legion: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Flamer

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod [115pts]: Frag Assault Launchers

 

Javelin Attack Speeder Squadron, Legion [150pts]

. Javelin Attack Speeder, Legion: 2x Hunter-killer Missile, Multi-melta, Twin-linked Cyclone missile launcher

. Javelin Attack Speeder, Legion: 2x Hunter-killer Missile, Multi-melta, Twin-linked Cyclone missile launcher

 

Primaris-Lightning Strike Fighter [230pts]: 2x 2x Kraken Penetrator Heavy Missiles, Battle Servitor Control, Ground-tracking Auguries, Twin-linked Lascannon

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Leviathan Siege Dreadnought Talon [415pts]: Dreadnought Drop Pod, Legion

. Leviathan Siege Dreadnought: Cyclonic Melta Lance, Iliastus Pattern Assault Cannon, Iliastus Pattern Assault Cannon, Leviathan Siege Claw, Phosphex Discharger

 

+ Allegiance +

 

Legion and Allegiance:   IX: Blood Angels, Loyalist

 

Rite of War: The Day of Revelation

 

Created with BattleScribe

 

You have 60 PA Bodies in here:

• Forge Lord has Rad Grenades meaning whatever his squad charges or is charged by reduces their Toughness by 1 which is usually 5 down to 4 meaning your chainsword marines are wounding on 3s now with Encarmine Fury. He also has a Blade of Perdition AND Servo-Arm for a decent amount of attacks. Any S8 in his squad will also ID any T4 custodians, which is nice. This does make him a biiiiig target.
• Chaplain is there for Zealot. Use them as a tarpit so long as the chappy lives if anything. Re-rolls on the charge in addition to all the other Charge bonuses the list gives is nice. Dont think you can give him a Blade of Perdition sadly.
• Praetor I gave the Photonic Blade. If your opponent is fine with it, cool. Otherwise, you save 25 points and get a Paragon Blade (or Blade of Perdition) Instead.
• Apothecaries attached to all the Assault Marine Squads. Gives your boys 3+/5(6)++/5+++ to make them a bit tougher. The Augury Scanner also limits Infiltration and Deepstriking as well as opening up some Interceptor in the event that you dont roll DoR and are forced to perform a T1 Reserve Drop.
• 9 Man Plasma Support Squad (because points) in a Dreadclaw to drop in where you need them to be and hopefully dish out some damage.
• Gave the Assault Marine Sergeants Thunderhammers for concussive since this is one of the instances where it can come into play and be a worthwhile addition in a list. Otherwise, save the points, get power fists.

2 Javelins to vomit out 5 S8 Shots on arrival to deal with Armour or try to lay on some hurt.

The Primaris-Lightning BunkerBuster

Leviathan with Assault Cannons in a Drop Pod to apply more forward Pressure.

[carlisimo]

The 20-25% penalty that a lot of events impose on Custodes might be able to come down a small amount after the FAQ. HQs and shields aren't as ridiculous anymore, and the change to Preternatural Skill applies armywide.

 

On the other hand, Haeteron Guard and Agamatus Jetbikes are still nuts.

 

On your end, we need to know more about what you're taking. I'd start with two 15-man Assault Marine units, each with max. power axes, melta bombs (unless you have anti-tank covered very well elsewhere), a fully kitted out sergeant, an apothecary, and an attached character.

 

Then you choose between Dreadnoughts, Terminators, or Support/Heavy Support Marines in their appropriate pod types, Jetbikes, Speeders, and flyers. For the sake of holding objectives, you probably need more infantry unless you take a third Assault squad.

[swordofmandulis]

So we had our game monday

 

Talons list was exactly as above but with melta bombs added to bring me up to the 3k, I didn't fancy coming in at 2900 once I saw what I would be facing, call it tailoring but it surely wasn't.

 

Blood angels brought the following

 

Pride of the legion

 

Praetor - blade of perdition

Chaplain - cata, blade of perdition

 

10 veterans 2 plasma 2 axes rhino with assault cannon

10 veterans 2 plasma 2 axes rhino with assault cannon

6 cataphractii 2 axes 4 chainfist Spartan

 

2 javelins

 

Predator with assault cannons

 

Vindicator

 

Fire raptor

 

Contemptor Kheres, chainfist, melta I think

 

2 quad mortars with shatter shells

 

Fellblade

 

Blood angels won the roll off.

 

Valdor with the Oblivion knight and the Sentinels infiltrated and so did Krole and the Hetaeron, couldn't get too close as was unable to be out of sight. I failed to seize so BA are going first.

 

The short version is by the end of BA turn 2 Valdor and his companions are dead, the Telemon is dead for zero return and I'm yet to reach out and touch anything other than immobilising the Spartan which mattered very little anyway.

 

So I'm about 800+ points down starting my turn 2. Here is where I stopped it being a complete whitewash, his murder squad whiffed and my Hetaeron and Krole put them in the ground for 1 casualty, not bad. My Achillus made a monster 11 inch charge to put down the Spartan with 1 destroyer rolled and chipping off the last 2 hull points.

 

We played out turns 3 and 4 and I killed a few more tanks and he whittled me down with the fellblade and the fire raptor. Given the mission type I pretty much had no chance from the word go. It was the one where scoring units have to hold the deployment zone, no man's land and enemy deployment for 3/5/7 points and tanks and super heavies get scoring too. So I had 2 scoring units and blood angels ended up with about 10, whoo.

 

Rough game for the Talons. Big Tel won't be leaving home without his twin arachnus in future. To stand any chance in that game I needed Valdor in on the fellblade, with that able to operate without challenge it was going to be very difficult.

 

Hey ho, we are learning every game and the aim isn't to arms race it's to get to a point where we get good fun competitive games