Mechanicus + FAQ 2018 = ?

[Tiger9gamer]

So, the big FAQ for warhammer 40k came out a few weeks ago when the website was down, so I have been itching to discuss the changes with everyone. Since I am studying the emperor's most holy of tables (the periodic one) at college, I was wondering what is everyone's thoughts are on the FAQ? did we get hit in the LugNuts? or are we going to be fine?

[Clingy]

Melee Admech got shafted, shooting Admech got a buff

[Stray]

Not being an Ad Mech player, I don't feel I'm qualified to have much of an opinion on this.

 

What I suspect is that it's likely too early too say how these changes will impact things long term. Chapter approved is undoubtedly going to bring more - almost certainly including points adjustments for many things also - and it's not that far off now in the great scheme of things.

 

I can't speak to their validity, but I've heard whispers of sub faction bonuses granting -1 to hit, being changed to 'you count as in cover', which would be another shake up to Stygies for example.

[synthaside]

I have played about 4-5 competitive games since the faq .. mainly 1250 as its what my next tournment is pure ad mech, stygies definitely feels a bit toothless in their old configuration .

I was traditionally playing a mele focused Ad mech army that would drop about a 3rd of my points into combat units which would buy me enough time while my backfield units, scored or killed what I needed to do to win the game. 

1250 , 1 terrax with 11 hoplites and a relic holding TPE , 3 las chicken 3 dragoons ,  , 3 ranger teams, 3 dakkabots  , warlord TPE in the back

Game 1,  vs Blood angels alpha strike list ...   I went second and was utterly smashed .. Blood angles can still make turn one charges on your units on the edge of the board ... and because the vast majority of that move comes in the movement phase .... or pregame ...  They are moving over your screens with fly I could have screened better but probably not at the points level we were playing at with my mole coming in turn 2  and my dragoons out in the midfield holding an objective which instead was shot at down to 1 and then charged by my opponents entire line ,  in the backfield a max size unit of death company smashed into my robots turn 1 ... and while they couldn't kill them all they shut down the shooting for 2 turns . "Just like we used to do with ad mech" ... by turn 2  after 2 turns of beating from smash captains death company and the arrival of some standard deep strike sang guard i conceded ... my army was in tatters.

Game 2  ... We Restacked and my opponent swapped the death company and sang guard out for some Primaris dreadnaughts.

This felt much better I played in a more " Mars " way ...  with my dragoons as a counter punch unit  and stayed at range castling up using my Terrax and hoplites as a unit to grab objectives turn 2 rather than as an actual combat smash unit ... this worked a Lot bette , i lost this one on objectives but it could have easily gone either way , my -1 to hit was used more or less as a pure survival mechanic , but nothing else from stygies was used ... 


Game  3   Space wolves .... Again I played  the same list and my opponent went combat heavy but also took a sicarian ... which was turn one murdered by my las chickens , i seem to have reverted to a mars castle style but now im playing a reverse cat and mouse game ... my fighty units hold up the advance while my other stuff moves back and a way to keep that -1 to hit.


Overall conclusion

Ad mech feels like its returning to a gunline army .... we have lost our  stygies trick "admittedly it was quite cheesy"  the pregame move is powerful still but with ours capped at 9 our turn 1 shinanigan's is a bit neutered,   other armies are still able to make that turn 1 charge , blood angels , Imp Knights , Chaos with dark matter crystal .

We also still suffer being out of position with these units if we lose the turn 1 roll ...  as you can be used as a slingshot for bonus moves on turn 1 a dragoon in the midfeild with 1 wound is easily killed by 4 squads of charging primaris blood angels.

It we were to lose -1 to hit in stygies and it to be replaced with always cover ... i would seriously consider reverting to mars .. or probably metallica as i dislike such a static playstyle .

Its just a shame metallica's trait only works on rapid fire and not heavy or i would already be doing it.


 

[brother_b]

If they remove the Stygies -1 ability that will become an unplayable list and admech will go back to being a mostly Mars based faction. That would be sad as I quite like Stygies lore and abilities. Oh well I am not a fan of these FAQ changes.

[Tiger9gamer]

it's a bit if for the doctrines change but right now it does seem plausible. how did the imperial knights fare?

[Stray]

Knights did OK really. Relatively unscathed. The Raven Strat went up to 3 CP, along with an increase to the shield breaker missile strat. That was pretty much it, but I'd be shocked if the Castellan doesn't also go up in points come CA.

 

Renegade Knights were given official confirmation that our characters can summon, but to be honest I hadn't even realised that was being debated as it's just a rule that affects Chaos characters in general.

[Gaz1858]

Whilst the Stygies hit did take away our main combat potential Fulgurites are still a great unit.

 

In place of Stygies I am now considering Ryza as a FW with a Terrax as delivery method. 11 Fulgurites and a TPE w Reroll to hits Trait will have these guy hit harder than Stygies when they get in as they also reroll 1s to wound. Eisenhorn/Rex will potentially join to benefit from Dominate and Terrify. 1 of these units in 1500 and 2 in 2k

 

I will also be using Mars in a second det of spear or Batt. This will be dominus/cawl plus Bots and Icarus Onagers. This is so that the bots can benefit from Qrath Of Mars to remove screens/big wound models (Iknights).

[Tiger9gamer]

Knights did OK really. Relatively unscathed. The Raven Strat went up to 3 CP, along with an increase to the shield breaker missile strat. That was pretty much it, but I'd be shocked if the Castellan doesn't also go up in points come CA.

 

Renegade Knights were given official confirmation that our characters can summon, but to be honest I hadn't even realised that was being debated as it's just a rule that affects Chaos characters in general.

 

good to hear! I was afraid that my CP eating crusader was effected. I can still give him endless fury and the re-roll 1's to hit trait as usual!

 

Still sticking to lucius, but I'm kinda sad I can't teleport in my own deployment zone anymore. It was a nice "oh crap I need reinforcements now" Kind of thing.

[Stray]

There is definitely slightly less CP to fuel them now - there are general restrictions on CP generating items like the Aquilia for example - but not to the point where anything is going to be unplayable.

 

Knights in the competitive meta revolve almost entirely around Cawls Wrath, the Raven Strat, and the Castellan. So many top lists are using them, that we're almost certain to see further changes. I don't think the other Knights are likely to be in the firing line though, or at least to no great degree.

 

Ad Mech lists are in a strange place. The FAQ has clearly tried to switch things up for both shooty and assault lists across the factions, but I'm not personally clear on what direction GW are ultimately looking to take things in. It feels a lot like the FAQ is a prelude? (For want of a better word), for further changes. It certainly didn't seem to affect things to the degree the initial one did...

 

I'm thinking we'll see some favourable changes for Ad Mech in CA, in terms of points reductions if nothing else. The army is solid, but it definitely lacks some of the options others seem to have (a port over of the 30K units would help a great deal, but that remains a waiting game).

[Heliomanes]

So, we live in a short bubble of time between the last FAQ and the upcoming CA. With this perspective it can be a bit easier to not get all "the sky is falling!". Things will probably be quite different when january comes around.

Still, I think the primary learning point for me, who tend to use primarily knights with admech as support, is to start playing Lucius. Having the ability to deep strike in those small, mandatory Skitarii units actually gives them something useful to do, and gives my lumbering behemoths some access to mobile objective grabbers. I think the same could be said for a Cawlstar type list, since when they lose, they tend to lose because of the objectives part of the game.

[Charlo]

I play Mars (Cawl fo' life yo!), so not a lot of change for me in the FAQ... As I take the Gunline approach. The stratagem to get cover is nigh-useless with shroud-psalm, though there could be some strategy to getting cover for two turns guaranteed for some CP?

 

I suppose it's pretty moot, as while the opponents reserves can't savage me turn one, they're also immune to the firepower at my strongest?

 

I also use Knights and the strats that changed don't touch me as I don't have a Dominus & I tend to run Krast.

 

I feel for the Termite owners who just got one only for the FAQ to drop, but i'm sure it's still very viable and a great delivery system.

[synthaside]

Oh don't get me wrong, I will still be using one .. but I will no longer be running more than 1, the fact that the unit's auto-deploy when they come out still has some good interactions,
in my last game I  made two turn 2 charges from the mole .. It made its own and  my hoplites sadly the TPE didnt make it into combat .

What i feel the stratagem has gone form useful to Situational on the dragoons ... and against combat armies it can actually be a liability ( As i learned agains the blood angles)

If the rumors of Stygies moving to always in cover are true i shall most certainly be moving away from them as a forge world which is a real shame as i really enjoyed the lore aspect of them .... as borderline heretek .

[Clingy]

 

 

I suppose it's pretty moot, as while the opponents reserves can't savage me turn one, they're also immune to the firepower at my strongest?

 

 

What do you mean by the above? Do you mean you think your bots will do less damage now? (If I’ve interpreted the above wrong let me know haha)

 

Cause Phosphor blasters ignore cover. So I would be correct in assuming dakabots are a counter to the new 2CP +1 cover strat that the FAQ2 brought.

 

So that’s nice for Mars.

[elbianc]

very difficult to delivery cc units now... we wont get any transport, so they should drop points on ruststalkers and priests

[Charlo]

 

 

I suppose it's pretty moot, as while the opponents reserves can't savage me turn one, they're also immune to the firepower at my strongest?

 

What do you mean by the above? Do you mean you think your bots will do less damage now? (If I’ve interpreted the above wrong let me know haha)

 

Cause Phosphor blasters ignore cover. So I would be correct in assuming dakabots are a counter to the new 2CP +1 cover strat that the FAQ2 brought.

 

So that’s nice for Mars.

 

Forgot Phosphor ignores cover, that's neat!

 

What I mean is that at the top of turn one, my army has taken ZERO damage and is at its maximum kill potential. If the opponent had strong reserves that cam in turn one and hit me hard, then i'd be losing strength from my maximum shooting with each casualty.

 

But, with reserves not around until turn two... All those units in reserve are completely protected from my army at maximum strength.

 

Just a bit of musing.

[Tyriks]

very difficult to delivery cc units now... we wont get any transport, so they should drop points on ruststalkers and priests

Even with transports, they need points drops.

[Frostglaive]

I don't think Ruststalkers need a points drop. I think they need a rules overhaul entirely. They're too squishy for what they do, and what they do isn't really all that effective. Str 3 attacks fisihing for 1 mortal wound on a wound of 6, no ap. A points drop won't make them more effective. They need more power.

 

Points drop on electro-priests.... I mean, I'm okay with that. I wouldn't say it should be something hugely drastic or anything. But a couple points wouldn't be a bad thing. Or, again, give them some more power to compensate.

 

Personally I think CA2018 should give AdMech more transports. Let us use Chimeras, Rhinos and/or Razorbacks. Our faction is the one that builds them after all. Why shouldn't we get to use them too? Terrax Termite is nice, but pricey being Forgeworld and all. Worth the points in my opinion (although I think it could use a slight drop there). But we need something cheap. Bunch of Rhinos loaded up with Skitarii? That'd be awesome. It'd give us some better mobility.

[Stray]

I can't agree with the access to Rhinos et al thing. I don't think there is any good, fluffy reason why the Mechanicum would use any of them. They're a technology based religion, and as such there are very specific reasons why they employ a technology themselves. 

 

You certainly aren't wrong about lacking a transport though - aside from the drill. The Triaros seems the obvious option, but it needs 40K rules. I don't play Ad Mech, but I still feel irate that beta rules have been embraced for the Banana Warriors, yet an older existing faction that would (and should) benefit from the same consideration hasn't been afforded it :/

 

Electro Priests are powerful, probably reasonably pointed, units that just need a way to get where they are needed. Again, really that comes back to requiring a metal box given the recent rules changes.

 

Ruststalkers... have great models. That really is the best argument for them right now isn't it? They just aren't very good.

 

If Ad Mech are to be forced into an army which is primarily to be played as a gun-line of sorts, the other major quality of life change that really should have been addressed long ago is vehicle squadrons for Dunecrawlers. They are amazing units, are well costed, and are deployed by a force who you'd expect to have a nigh endless supply of the things. As such, let them take more than three like every other army can with their equivalents!

[synthaside]

dammit , * shoo's with brush * Stray .... I already have 4 dont make me buy and paint 2 more crawlers .... because I will :-P

[Tyriks]

I can't agree with the access to Rhinos et al thing. I don't think there is any good, fluffy reason why the Mechanicum would use any of them. They're a technology based religion, and as such there are very specific reasons why they employ a technology themselves. 

 

You certainly aren't wrong about lacking a transport though - aside from the drill. The Triaros seems the obvious option, but it needs 40K rules. I don't play Ad Mech, but I still feel irate that beta rules have been embraced for the Banana Warriors, yet an older existing faction that would (and should) benefit from the same consideration hasn't been afforded it :/

 

Electro Priests are powerful, probably reasonably pointed, units that just need a way to get where they are needed. Again, really that comes back to requiring a metal box given the recent rules changes.

 

Ruststalkers... have great models. That really is the best argument for them right now isn't it? They just aren't very good.

 

If Ad Mech are to be forced into an army which is primarily to be played as a gun-line of sorts, the other major quality of life change that really should have been addressed long ago is vehicle squadrons for Dunecrawlers. They are amazing units, are well costed, and are deployed by a force who you'd expect to have a nigh endless supply of the things. As such, let them take more than three like every other army can with their equivalents!

AdMech forces in books have been shown to use Rhinos in particular. So I would say that's a plenty good reason for them. I would rather have AdMech specific transports but there is a solid foundation for using Rhinos.

[Magos Takatus]

The background even had them using a unique variant of a Rhino. I think it was in one of the Priests of Mars trilogy?

[elbianc]

Squadrons of dunecrawlers would be great! It would be a very good alternative to dakkabots and would make other forgeworld more viable

[Tyriks]

The background even had them using a unique variant of a Rhino. I think it was in one of the Priests of Mars trilogy?

Forges of Mars made multiple mentions of Skitarii Rhinos, including a unique variant that downloaded information into nearby Skitarii's heads.

[Magos Takatus]

Thanks. I couldn't remember the specifics apart from it being armed with I think heavy bolters?