Deathwatch Bikers

[BrotherAetherick]

Has anyone had any success running deathwatch bikers either as combat squadded from a kill team or it's standalone entry?

 

I seem to have a mobility problem after the initial deepstrike units are deployed, and was wondering if bikers could solve this problem.

 

Although bikers (marines in general) are a little over costed, it seems that for 2 points over a standard marine biker, DW ones get a few benefits. If you consider the SIA tax you pretty much get an attack, +1 leadership, and fall back and charge for free.

 

I've been thinking of two configurations that may add some needed objective securing, general screening, and mobility.

 

The first is the kill team combat squad which contains 3-4 bikers and 1-2 vanguard vets with storm shields and chainswords. They will split off a stalker boltgun kill team, so they keep objective secured. RAW since they weren't change in a FAQ, the vanguard vets can still jump over models in the charge, pile in and consolidate movements which makes tri-locking models easy.

 

The unit is majority T5, has a 3++ save to dissuade damage -ap weapons (that often come in dmg 2), and can shoot move 14" (12" for the vanguard), fall back and still shoot and charge.

 

The other unit is just 3 bikers, with the sarge with an extra storm bolter and storm shield. This comes to 96 points. Has the same firepower of the combat squad, loses fall back and shoot but regains turboboost. 

 

Every squad of bike gives you a free teleport homer which lets you hide veterans with a terminator out of LOS and still react to enemy movement by using emergency teleports. Or it can be used defensively to pull them out of a bad situation.

 

Anyone else have any experience with bikers? I think the ability to take stormshields really helps in covering their weakness in instantly dying to plasma or other Dmg 2 weapons, but I haven't actually used them in practice.

[SnakeChisler]

Comparing my games with and without bikers there defiantly a necessary in objective capping and threat manipulation.

 

I've run down my DS as well to a single big blob of 10 primaris ( weapon choice varies) as the threat of them coming in more than what they end up doing tends to mess my opponent. I think post faq having a large force in orbit can lead to game issues such as getting hammered early turns on progressive points where your too far behind to recover.

 

I do the 10 man 5 stalker 3 bikes 2 VV + storm shields varient and start my lists with 2 complete squads Base is about 240, they do a number of jobs as well and if games are tight can be relied upon for 1St blood against units that have a forward move. If you start making storm shield saves they really get under your opponents skin.

 

T5 makes a difference and not forgetting they provide a screen for captain smash, I normally deploy them last and on 1 flank.

 

There's a number of tricks you can do to support them giving your captain the mission swap relic and even making him warlord with ignores cover trait.

 

Even if they get focused on its fire that's not hitting the rest of your army and units with storm Shields really hang around a disproportionate amount.

 

The only real issue I have ( not with this unit but an army problem) is range I generally add an ally in the 500 point mark to add either a highly mobile threat or a long range threat, the thing that should work is Dreads but they die too quickly at too high a cost.

 

Is it worth equipping them with power weapons? Maybe axes seem about the best balance of AP to hitting power and Maul's with 2 damage

 

The rest of my army is watch master smash captain + a mix of primaris to 1500, I could field another 500 Deathwatch and when I do its a straight drop in of 2 corvus Blackstars as I've been pretty underwealmed by vet squads with frag cannons and various other weapon mixes.

[Inquisitor Red]

I run biker squads all the time, and I've had nothing but success with them. I do however always run them on their own, to me their main benefit is their mobility so locking them into a foot slogging Vet squad is pointless. 

 

I run mine as stand alone fast attack choices, as 3 man squads all equipped with power swords. Bikers have a high probability of getting into CC and I found you want them equipped with some teeth, so I kit every bike with power swords. 

 

Also as a 3 man squad your immune to morale, and SIA on the bolters really makes them a nasty dakka unit. 

 

Here's another hint. If you want your bikers to have Objective Secured, include them into a Veteran Kill team. Then Combat squad them out so that the bikers are their own squad, reason being is that sense they're technically apart of the "Veteran Kill Team" squad they gain the Objective secured ability, as well as counting as a troop choice to free up your Fast attack slots.

 

Overall I really love the Deathwatch Bikers, best marine bikers in the game if you ask me. 

[BrotherAetherick]

 

Is it worth equipping them with power weapons? Maybe axes seem about the best balance of AP to hitting power and Maul's with 2 damage

 

 

Are Mauls really dmg 2? I thought they were S+2, Ap - 1 dmg 1, unless battlescribe is lying to me.

[Vel'Cona]

 

Is it worth equipping them with power weapons? Maybe axes seem about the best balance of AP to hitting power and Maul's with 2 damage

 

 

Are Mauls really dmg 2? I thought they were S+2, Ap - 1 dmg 1, unless battlescribe is lying to me.

 

 

You are correct.  Not sure where Snake got those stats from.

[Trollbeard]

How are VV not affected by the change to fly?? As far as I saw it didn’t specify certain units, just any unit with fly. You can only ignore other models and terrain in the movement phase? Unless I missed something??

[BrotherAetherick]

How are VV not affected by the change to fly?? As far as I saw it didn’t specify certain units, just any unit with fly. You can only ignore other models and terrain in the movement phase? Unless I missed something??

 

Vanguards on their own elite choice are indeed affected by the fly change.

 

However, vanguard vets added to kill teams do not actually have the fly keyword. Instead they have the vanguard strike rule:

"Vanguard Veterans can move across models and terrain as if they were not there. In addition, when a unit of Veterans that includes any Vanguard Veterans Falls Back, it can shoot later that turn as if it could FLY"

 

As flip belts and wraiths were changed, and GW forgot about interceptors and vanguard vets (in kill teams), RAW you can still move over models and terrain.

[Lemondish]

 

 

How are VV not affected by the change to fly?? As far as I saw it didn’t specify certain units, just any unit with fly. You can only ignore other models and terrain in the movement phase? Unless I missed something??

Vanguards on their own elite choice are indeed affected by the fly change.

 

However, vanguard vets added to kill teams do not actually have the fly keyword. Instead they have the vanguard strike rule:

"Vanguard Veterans can move across models and terrain as if they were not there. In addition, when a unit of Veterans that includes any Vanguard Veterans Falls Back, it can shoot later that turn as if it could FLY"

 

As flip belts and wraiths were changed, and GW forgot about interceptors and vanguard vets (in kill teams), RAW you can still move over models and terrain.

Not sure what you're saying here. If the model doesn't have the keyword FLY, they can't pass over terrain and models as if they aren't there, so it gives you no benefit on the charge...

 

As such, they're either not affected by the FAQ since they supposedly don't have FLY, which means they couldn't do it even if they tried, or they do have FLY and can't do it because of the FAQ.

 

Either way, I don't see how a VV gets the movement tricks you claim.

[BrotherAetherick]

 

 

How are VV not affected by the change to fly?? As far as I saw it didn’t specify certain units, just any unit with fly. You can only ignore other models and terrain in the movement phase? Unless I missed something??

Vanguards on their own elite choice are indeed affected by the fly change.

 

However, vanguard vets added to kill teams do not actually have the fly keyword. Instead they have the vanguard strike rule:

"Vanguard Veterans can move across models and terrain as if they were not there. In addition, when a unit of Veterans that includes any Vanguard Veterans Falls Back, it can shoot later that turn as if it could FLY"

 

As flip belts and wraiths were changed, and GW forgot about interceptors and vanguard vets (in kill teams), RAW you can still move over models and terrain.

Not sure what you're saying here. If the model doesn't have the keyword FLY, they can't pass over terrain and models as if they aren't there, so it gives you no benefit on the charge...

 

As such, they're either not affected by the FAQ since they supposedly don't have FLY, which means they couldn't do it even if they tried, or they do have FLY and can't do it because of the FAQ.

 

Either way, I don't see how a VV gets the movement tricks you claim.

 

 

"Vanguard Veterans can move across models and terrain as if they were not there" that's directly from the codex. It's also the same rule wraiths, harlequin flip belts, and grey knight interceptors have.

 

Wraiths and harlequins were nerfed, they have been FAQ'd to only work in the movement phase. Vanguard vets (in kill teams), inceptors (in kill teams) and grey knight interceptors all retain the old rule either because GW forgot or don't care. RAI, they probably meant to nerf them as well, but RAW it definetly says in the codex they still ignore models and terrain.

[Lemondish]

 

 

 

 

How are VV not affected by the change to fly?? As far as I saw it didn’t specify certain units, just any unit with fly. You can only ignore other models and terrain in the movement phase? Unless I missed something??

Vanguards on their own elite choice are indeed affected by the fly change.

 

However, vanguard vets added to kill teams do not actually have the fly keyword. Instead they have the vanguard strike rule:

"Vanguard Veterans can move across models and terrain as if they were not there. In addition, when a unit of Veterans that includes any Vanguard Veterans Falls Back, it can shoot later that turn as if it could FLY"

 

As flip belts and wraiths were changed, and GW forgot about interceptors and vanguard vets (in kill teams), RAW you can still move over models and terrain.

Not sure what you're saying here. If the model doesn't have the keyword FLY, they can't pass over terrain and models as if they aren't there, so it gives you no benefit on the charge...

 

As such, they're either not affected by the FAQ since they supposedly don't have FLY, which means they couldn't do it even if they tried, or they do have FLY and can't do it because of the FAQ.

 

Either way, I don't see how a VV gets the movement tricks you claim.

"Vanguard Veterans can move across models and terrain as if they were not there" that's directly from the codex. It's also the same rule wraiths, harlequin flip belts, and grey knight interceptors have.

 

Wraiths and harlequins were nerfed, they have been FAQ'd to only work in the movement phase. Vanguard vets (in kill teams), inceptors (in kill teams) and grey knight interceptors all retain the old rule either because GW forgot or don't care. RAI, they probably meant to nerf them as well, but RAW it definetly says in the codex they still ignore models and terrain.

Well would you look at that, it does say that.

 

Wouldn't ever do that to my opponent, though. That's pretty shady imo.

 

Anyway, bikes are great.

[Black Knight]

 

Is it worth equipping them with power weapons? Maybe axes seem about the best balance of AP to hitting power and Maul's with 2 damage

 

 

Are Mauls really dmg 2? I thought they were S+2, Ap - 1 dmg 1, unless battlescribe is lying to me.

 

This would make them worth it.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Not really .

[vigitant]

bikes are good.
I've never been able to fit them into a competitive list, but they are good, and have potential.

 

worth noting is combat squad bike/vv are still troops, and can enter ruins/climb buildings, etc.  it'll annoy your opponent when the bikes drive up a sheer wall to a third story building top with their insane move speed.

[Aothaine]

Here's another hint. If you want your bikers to have Objective Secured, include them into a Veteran Kill team. Then Combat squad them out so that the bikers are their own squad, reason being is that sense they're technically apart of the "Veteran Kill Team" squad they gain the Objective secured ability, as well as counting as a troop choice to free up your Fast attack slots.

 

Overall I really love the Deathwatch Bikers, best marine bikers in the game if you ask me. 

 

That is a dirty trick! I love it!

[Qui-Gon]

There is one other thing about Bikers that I pointed out in my review of them. If they are part of a Veterans unit, those bikers become Infantry. Think about what that allows you to do.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

That makes them worth the points for a lot of missions plus they can use SIA! If I decide to expand my current army I will definitely give them strong consideration. What are their best tactical uses and abilities?

[Qui-Gon]

Well, what is one thing that normal bikers can't do/make use of? I'll give a hint. It starts with a c, and ends in over.

[Black Knight]

clover? When Conquest delivers my new bikes I'm going to have around 12 oO

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Oh well OBSEC not really important anymore tbh.

[SnakeChisler]

I disagree about obj-sec the majority of my opponents run min troops and games are tight and we also play maelstrom.

 

As for tactics you need at least 2 squads and even then without the VV storm Shields they can struggle.

 

I've been experimenting with the warlord trait that gives ignores cover against a unit on the jump pack captain it's surprisingly useful combined with the mission tactic relic it helps with forward bikes / aggressors.

 

You need to drop the squads last so you can pressure the weaker flank, putting them straight down the middle doesn't really work

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I play mostly itc missions it rarely makes a difference tbh.

[SnakeChisler]

I play mostly itc missions it rarely makes a difference tbh.

Non of that round here not at the club or the local shop, non of the comps use itc missions either though the Independent ( non GW events that I've been too) have 2 tier missions (various flavours of maelstrom + EW).

 

And there's very little reason to do event structured missions aside from at a tourney

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

That’s all people pretty much play here yuppers.

[Prot]

 

I play mostly itc missions it rarely makes a difference tbh.

Non of that round here not at the club or the local shop, non of the comps use itc missions either though the Independent ( non GW events that I've been too) have 2 tier missions (various flavours of maelstrom + EW).

And there's very little reason to do event structured missions aside from at a tourney

I’m in a somewhat similar situation. I really get bored of ITC fast but we only play it around ITC GT time and other than that we don’t play it. I also very much enjoy the diversity of Maelstrom but we play it slightly modified. That being the case I agree ObSec is great to have in those cases.

 

But at the end of the day I don’t hate bikers.... I confess I plop a squad of three basic ones in once in a while. I just find in my case I seem to run out of pints and the bikes always get cut from the list. I wonder if you’re playing them in part because you’re a Dark Angels fan? ;)

[Delta.Skies]

 

 

I play mostly itc missions it rarely makes a difference tbh.

Non of that round here not at the club or the local shop, non of the comps use itc missions either though the Independent ( non GW events that I've been too) have 2 tier missions (various flavours of maelstrom + EW).

And there's very little reason to do event structured missions aside from at a tourney

I’m in a somewhat similar situation. I really get bored of ITC fast but we only play it around ITC GT time and other than that we don’t play it. I also very much enjoy the diversity of Maelstrom but we play it slightly modified. That being the case I agree ObSec is great to have in those cases.

 

But at the end of the day I don’t hate bikers.... I confess I plop a squad of three basic ones in once in a while. I just find in my case I seem to run out of pints and the bikes always get cut from the list. I wonder if you’re playing them in part because you’re a Dark Angels fan? ;)

Thats how i feel, i will add them in and realize that i would take them out to fill out more of the necessities. I still want to use them just have to fi d a place for them.