Kill Team : Commanders - Tactics & General Discussion

[Orpheus108]

So now that KT: Commanders is out and no doubt those that got it have read through the book.

 

Thought I'd start here for people to write up tactics and general discussion about including commanders in your KT.

 

I myself am looking very much forward to including a commander in my KT. I'm excited about the Death Jester for Harlequins and will include a commander in Death Guard, Grey Knights, Death Watch and Astra Militarum.

 

What are your teams that will include a commander?

 

Cheers guys

[Axineton]

I picked up the commanders extension and also a death jester and the drukhari commander as well this morning. Looking forward to getting them on the battlefield in the next few months

[N1SB]

Hey guys,

 

I was just at our Warhammer Store flipping through this book and there were a few notable dudes.  Just IMHO, these really caught my attention:

 

Astra Militarum Commander/Commissar - for their Leadership Aura.  That'd really help Guardsmen out IMHO, and they're cheap.

 

Death Guard Foulspawn - i.e. crazy Plague Marine death spewing flamer guy.  That flamer looks seriously powerful in the tight quarters of Kill Team, and he's tough at 4 Wounds with power armour and his Disgustingly Resilient.  He's hard to shoot down and I really don't want to charge him.

 

Deathwatch Watchmaster - 6 Wounds, 2+ save, 4++ invuln, holy cow.  I know he's expensive, but he'll take so much to kill or draw so much fire from his also expensive teammates that he's a very interesting choice.

 

I didn't go in with any preconceptions, I was just looking for interesting things.  In fact, of the above, I could only easily add a Watchmaster to my existing Deathwatch Primaris Kill Team.  These are just my initial thoughts/1st impressions from flipping through the book.

[MasterDeath]

Just remember, that the mission has to allow commanders.

 

I will go for a Biologus Putrifier with Logistics as specialism. Super Grenades + 9" Injector Pistol. (That can be combined with armor piercing rounds.) 

 

9" Range, S 5, DS -2, Damage d6 sounds very nice for a pistol.

[Scammel]

I'm building an Ork team, and while the Mek and Painboy seem relatively well-priced ways to get a modicum of combat power into the list, I just can't tear my eyes away from a level 2 melee Warboss with five attacks and re-rolls. My decision now is whether to go full monster and back him up with two CC Nobs, or go heavier on the Boys and have a veteran Nob hang back slightly with a Skorcha.

[RandomMarine]

I like the whole boss battle vibe of the 1 commander Vs a kill team mission , I might make very 3rd round of the campaign a commander mission going forward, gonna get arhiman to proxy as exalted sorc and a putrifier because he's dirty for TS and DG respectively and already got the primaris characters so the rules and those 2 isn't to much of a extra investment to add variety to the campaign ( I'm playing DG but my brother and SO use the other 2)

 

Edit. Forgot to write half a sentence lol

[Kilofix]

The higher level Commanders only benefit is that they have higher level Specialist Tactics and Abilities right? Odd that some commanders are like +55 points for Lvl4 and some are like +70 points for Lvl4.

 

That said, Strategist Lvl 4 looks like totally boss for supporting a squad. But at 200 points limit, you won’t have enough for any other models.

 

Edit - actually some factions like Chaos can take a Level 4 Champion for only 70 points. That’s actually great cause with Strat Level 4 they can get +1 CP, regain CP on 5+, and Never Break!! Which is awesome for an underpowered horde squad

[N1SB]

Edit - actually some factions like Chaos can take a Level 4 Champion for only 70 points. That’s actually great cause with Strat Level 4 they can get +1 CP, regain CP on 5+, and Never Break!! Which is awesome for an underpowered horde squad

 

That's a really interesting point, I need to look at things like this closer.  Like the Astra Militarum's commanders are so cheap it's probably worth upgrading them to higher levels, which can benefit their team more so than, say, an Elite army.  Imma look at the commanders again with this in mind.

[MithrilForge]

hey guys, have not seen the commanders book yet...what command types do Harlequins get?... i see Fr33Dom mentioned getting a death Jester  , is that the only commander available to them that we know of?... 

 

thanks in advance to anyone who can answer me ..

 

Cheers, Mithril 

[wildweasel]

Troupe Master

Shadowseer

Death Jester

[MasterDeath]

Best example for points vs. levels is the Adeptus Mechanicum in my oppinion. You either go for a high level Enginseer for support duty, or you take a low level Dominus, because that thing is scary even at level 1. From the look I think its a good balance between those two. And you can have one of each Commander on your rooster, so except for Tau, you always be able to have someone for an "honor duel" szenario.

[Scammel]

I'm going to take a punt on the Melee tree being optimal for most commanders that can get it, with level 2 being acutely good value. I think there's plenty of potential to get cute with some of the other trees, but if I'm forking out for a commander rather than more bodies I'm not happy with it hanging back to provide soft value. Given how vital board control has been in every game I've played, I want my best guys to be able to effectively clear objectives and even entire table quarters.

[MithrilForge]

Troupe Master

Shadowseer

Death Jester

 

Thanks for the info   

 

decisions...decisions   

 

Mithril

[MasterDeath]

A bit more of an analysis about what will probably my go-to Commander

 

Biologus Putrifier, Logistics

 

Level 1: Ignoring -1 AP and being able to give a model a grav-chute

The extra armor is nice to have, but one of the weaker toughness perks. Still it may keep your commander alive, so I take it. The Grav-Chute is very situational and map dependant. Generally lvl 1 Logistics is on the weak side.

 

Level 2: Extra grenade per round and improved guns tactic.

The Biologus is all about grenades, so the ability to let two models use them per round makes his aura usable. Of course he should be paired up with a Grenadier. The Armor piercing rounds are awesome for guns that have good damage, but need help with wounding the target. Just like the Injector pistol. If it only had a bit more range...

 

Level 3: Improved range for gun and 5+ ward save

+6" range for one gun and reroll 1s. So the injector pistol after Armor piercing rounds has 9" Range, rerolls 1s to hit and wound, S5 and AP -2 with D6 damage. Going into melee with this guy can be quiet dangerous if you cant kill him first round. Giving a model of choice a 5+ Ward save is also great, as the Biologus has no ward save on his own. Or you give it to your heavy that always takes the most fire.

 

Level 4: Not much to see here without making the guy very expensive.

 

Traits: I am thinking about Tactical Planner, which is basically a gamble. It save 5 points on average above just taking less points in your killteam, but can also pay of good or bad. In any way, the logistics needs some more points first turn, so I will take it.

 

Cost: 95 points, leaving me a bit more room for experienced models in the killteam.

 

I have plans for the other three DG Commanders.

[Kilofix]

For DG I’m using L4 Tallyman with Strat for support or L1-2 Blightspawn for combat. The latter’s weapon kills everything. Use with Zombies and Cloud of Flies to protect him.

[MasterDeath]

Exalted Champion (EC) vs. Primaris Lieutenant (PI)

 

Why is the ECso cheap? The PI costs roughly 50% more at all levels. The PI has the better guns over 12", but the EC has access to the Plasma Pistol. The aura is the same, "Death to the fals Emperor" is roughly comparable to "and they shall know no fear". Specialisms are the same. The only thing the PI has over the EC is +1 Wound but the EC can reroll to hit vs commanders and has way better melee options. Is it because Chaos cannot choose a lord level commander? Is it a hidden Buff to chaos? Has Tzeentch written this book? What do you think?

[Panzer]

What do you think?

I think GW doesn't really care about the balancing of Commanders since they aren't part of the default games anyway and that they use this supplement just to sell more HQ boxes. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[WonderWAAAGH]

I’m not entirely sure that we’re allowed to take commanders at level two or higher outside of campaigns, though I hope GW clarifies that we can - and sooner rather than later. The matched play commander mission rules don’t specify one way or another, so they’re no help. Commander levels are nominally distinct from specialist levels, except that they’re functionally identical apart from point costs, commanders *must* choose a specialization (does that make them a specialist?), and the Commander rulebook even points to the portion of the Kill Team rulebook that limits specialists to level 1. I could really go either way.

 

That said, my pick for a Death Gourd commander would be a level 4 Shooting Biologus Putrifier. Consider the risk-free lethality of a 12” Hyper Blight Grenade that you can throw through solid walls with absolutely no penalty to hit.

[MasterDeath]

On page 14/15 of KT: Commanders you see two sections: "Including Commanders" and "Commanders and Campaigns"

 

So, all Rules not under "Commanders and Campaigns" are for Matched and Free games. On page 15 is a section about "Commander levels" were it is mentioned that you can include a Commander of level 1-4 in your killteam. 

 

So in my view: You can include commanders of any level in your matched play. And they are no specialists as they do not count towards the specialist maximum, but have to pick a specialism. (page 14)

These can be one a specialist normally uses, but each specialism must be unique. Maybe this last sentence is for future expansions where commander get access to specialisms like Demolition. I do not know about Rogue Trader.

[wildweasel]

The two Commanders in Rogue Trader do have access to Core Manual specialisms.

[WonderWAAAGH]

On page 14/15 of KT: Commanders you see two sections: "Including Commanders" and "Commanders and Campaigns"

 

So, all Rules not under "Commanders and Campaigns" are for Matched and Free games. On page 15 is a section about "Commander levels" were it is mentioned that you can include a Commander of level 1-4 in your killteam.

 

So in my view: You can include commanders of any level in your matched play. And they are no specialists as they do not count towards the specialist maximum, but have to pick a specialism. (page 14)

These can be one a specialist normally uses, but each specialism must be unique. Maybe this last sentence is for future expansions where commander get access to specialisms like Demolition. I do not know about Rogue Trader.

While I certainly appreciate the insight, I don’t see the separate sections in the Commander rulebook as a delineation between matched play and campaign so much as the latter being an addendum to the general commander rules, or else they would have been titled with more specificity. A game of Kill Team that uses commanders is still subject to the restrictions presented in the basic rulebook, regardless of the mode being played. The Commander rulebook even directs you to the specific pages that restrict access to higher level specialists, hence my quandary.

 

Maybe it comes down to the precise interpretation of the term “specialist,” but even there we’re left without an express definition in either book, and maybe only RAI to go off of. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it’s a duck; commanders have specialisms and levels with associated tactics and ability trees, just like specialists. And while the Commander rulebook does say that commanders don’t count against your maximum number of specialists, it doesn’t in any other way infer that they’re *not* specialists. Even the campaign addendum seems to corroborate this, since there’d be no need to adjust the usual leveling rules if they weren’t already counted as specialists.

[MasterDeath]

Well, but I am allowed to pay X points for a model "Primaris Captain (Level 1)" as well as Y points for a "Primaris Captain (Level 2)". Its directly in the datasheet. This option does not exist for regular Specialists. So big difference here.

 

But, although its basically contradicting my point, GW did what GW does: p. 117 Exemplars of War, Victory Conditions: "... for each Commander taken out of action... for each other Specialist taken out of action." According to this, Commanders are Specialists, therefore they would fall under Level limitations. Conclusion: In my opinion, one can include higher level commanders, for the points in the datasheet, but they are stated as "other specialists" so they cannot. We need an FAQ/errata.

[Panzer]

Commanders are specialists. However they are special specialists who don't take away from your specialist slots.

And yes you can take a level 2+ Commander in matched play. GW even said so in one of their articles.

[WonderWAAAGH]

Commanders are specialists. However they are special specialists who don't take away from your specialist slots.

And yes you can take a level 2+ Commander in matched play. GW even said so in one of their articles.

May I please have a link? I’d love to read that.

[Panzer]

 

Commanders are specialists. However they are special specialists who don't take away from your specialist slots.

And yes you can take a level 2+ Commander in matched play. GW even said so in one of their articles.

May I please have a link? I’d love to read that.

 

 

I would have to search for it again as well Just use the search function on https://www.warhammer-community.com