DW Primaris Squad Questions/Clarifications

[Syward]

Greetings fellow Deathwatch army commanders!

 

I’m new to the Deathwatch codex and new to actually playing the game in general. I’ve been modeling/collecting since 3^rd/4^th edition, but never actually played a game until a few months ago. I picked up the Deathwatch codex on the advice of some in the Codex:SM army lists section of the forums because I want to run a full Primaris list and the Primaris rules in the Codex:DW are more flexible/robust.

 

I’ve been looking though the codex and I’m very excited to try out the DW army their SIA and their Stratagems, but I had a few questions I was hoping to get the answer to before I start buy more models and doing conversions.

 

First up is in the Codex:DW it says that an Intercessor Sergeant may replace their Bolt Rifle with a Chainsword or Power Sword or he may take a Chainsword or Power Sword. I’m a little confused by this – it sounds/reads like I can either have my Sgt. Equipped with a only a Bolt Pistol & Chain/Power Sword saving 1 point for dropping the Bolt Rifle or I can have him keep both his Bolt Pistol and Bolt Rifle and take a Chainsword for no additional points or pay the points for a Power Sword and still have both the Bolt Pistol & Bolt Rifle.

 

Am I understanding this right? If so, why would we ever want to drop the Bolt Rifle in favor of a CC weapon when we can have a free CC weapon and keep the Bolt Rifle too? And if I’m reading this right, why would I ever not take a Chainsword for the extra CC attack when it’s free?

 

Next is a question on the squad make up – I’m already planning on having at least two Intercessor squads with 5x Intercessors, 1x Inceptor w/Plasma & 4x Helblasters. I’ve played a few games with Helblasters as a HS option in Codex:SM and they’re a great unit, combined with the SIA of the Intercessors (and using the Intercessors as  meat-shields) these units should be pretty good on the table – or at least a load of fun.  These Intercessor/Helblaster units will be the core of my army. I’ll also be running with between 1-3 Primaris Watch Captains and a Primaris Librarian depending on my list size. I also plan to have up to 3x Stormtalon Gunships w/Lascannons & Twin Assault Cannons  depending on list size.

 

I’m considering also taking at least one Intercessor squad with 5x Intercessors w/Auto-Bolt Rifles, 1x Inceptor w/Assault Bolter & 4x Aggressors w/Boltstorm & Fragstorm grenades. The question is really around how effective this unit would be for the cost (actual money, not points, I’ll need to buy at least 2 boxes of Aggressors and they’re not cheap) On paper it sounds like it could be a devastating unit with 40 shots @ 18” (10 Auto Bolt Rile + 24 Boltstorm + 6 Assault Bolter)  and between 4-24 Fragstorm shots. However, I’ll be playing against Necrons with lots of Warriors, some Wraiths and some Tomb Blades primarily. I’ll also be going up against the occasional Chaos Demons & Deathguard and maybe some Space Marines, so I’m a little concerned since the 24 Boltstorm shots and the Fragstorms from the Aggressors won’t have any AP that the unit wouldn’t actually do much good against the Necrons or Power Armor units.

 

Finally how well do Terminators work in a DW list and what about Reivers? Is it better to run them in a unit with Intercessors or as a unit of pure reivers?

 

Thanks in advance for the help!

[Lemondish]

The short answer to your question is you would never not take it. It's free!

 

The relatively longer answer has to do with a concept within most matched play communities of 40k known as WYSIWYG, or What You See Is What You Get. This concept is then combined with the realities of the Primaris model line.

 

Simply put, the options listed in the data sheet reflect builds freely available in the line. The standard sgt you can build in each of the Intercessor focused kits only has the pistol and rifle in most cases. If you choose to take a free chainsword, or upgrade to a power sword, you need to make sure that it's included on the model by using another bit. If the option was just part of his standard wargear for free, rather than presented as a choice, then every model kit would provide an incomplete model that, per WYSIWYG wouldn't be quite legal. That's a bit of a headache, and a slightly unfortunate side effect of the way the Marine line has been rolled out for ages, but it's better than the alternative - no choice at all.

 

Basically, since the Sgt. model you build from every Intercessor box set does not include either option without a separate upgrade sprue, the rules let you choose. It means you can take the Lt. from the Dark Imperium set with the sword and pistol and use him as a valid Sgt. right from the start. Same with the Blood Angels Lt Toblerone (or whatever). Likewise, you can use the 30th anniversary Veteran Sgt to take the rifle, pistol, and sword. It's confusing, sure, but if you have the bit to add to your sgts, don't hesitate to do so. I prefer the power sword myself, though to each their own.

 

Keep in mind you'll need to have the Stormtalons part of a separate Codex Marine detachment since Deathwatch cannot bring these units themselves.

 

Regarding your Intercessor/Aggressor squad, that truly is one of my favourite and most effective units on the table. They're T5 majority (because when it's equal numbers you get to pick), 2+ in cover, 2 wounds each, and spit out dakka like you wouldn't believe. The Aggressors allow you to advance the whole squad without a penalty to shooting, as well! You mentioned you liked the ablative wounds your Intercessors provided to your Hellblasters (using them as meatshields), and that's effective here too for one big reason - if Aggressors don't move, they get to fire twice. Use their mobility early to get them in range and plant them on an objective or in a really advantageous position. Then blast away. Including on overwatch (just stay away from the flamer option).

 

This means you're going from 24 boltstorm and 4-24 Fragstorm to 48 boltstorm and 8-48 Fragstorm.

 

It's also important to remember that the larger the squad, the more impact they'll have with Doctrine strats. +1 to wound on the above is pretty gnarly.

 

Terminators and Reivers are good when added as single models to individual units. Terminators as a squad on their own are not very effective whatsoever, but when included in a Veteran squad will help boost the defensive profile against attrition fire, protect you from morale losses completely, and allow the entire squad to use a teleport homer if needed. Neat tactical tricks available here, but keep him cheap, never in a squad on their own.

 

I've used Reivers to fill in for an auto bolt rifle Intercessor in combat squad units that included 6 Intercessors, 2 Reivers, and 2 Aggressors. The goal with that unit was always highly mobile bully units that maximize SIA. On their own, their only benefit is the innate deep strike which saves you some CP if you intend to get SIA into range. Not the most efficient in that role, though. But adding them to an Intercessor heavy unit in place of a 6th Intercessor comes at a minor 2 point premium (assuming the carbine is your choice, and it's the better choice) and gives the squad terror troops and the situational shock grenade. Decent situational options for 2 points. Like the Terminator, I find it's better as part of another unit than on their own.

[SnakeChisler]

I've found max squads of Marines + aggressors then using deep strike to fetch them in pretty affective you can footprint them over a wide area and with re-roll backup and the right doctrines strategems can hose down your opponents screens very effectively.

 

Power fists on the aggressors are a real bonus for any counter attack.

 

If your putting Hellblaster's in squads with Marines you can combat squad splitting your Hellblaster's up makes it even harder for your opponent to focus fire on them.

[Vel'Cona]

Welcome back to the hobby and to DW!  I feel like SnakeChisler did a great job answering the majority of your questions, so the only thing I'd add is as you get comfortable with list building, try posting your list ideas in the Deathwatch Army Lists subforum.  In addition, if you're comfortable with doing so please post up your model/army pictures, particularly if you get the chance to start painting! :)

[Black Knight]

Sergeants can have the load outs of:

 

Bolter Rifle + Bolter Pistol

Bolter Pistol + Power Sword

Bolter Pistol + Chain sword

Bolter Rifle + Bolter Pistol + Power Sword

Bolter Rifle + Bolter Pistol + Chain sword

 

Chain swords are free so its good practice to add them to all veterans if they do not already have upgrades. It's an extra attack for free. At the end of the day the Sgt is possibly a saving grace if you are at 2001 Points and believe me when I tell you that happens WAY too much. No point having a Rifle if that specific squad is deep strike charging.

 

 

Just a note on the Primaris Watch Captain, unless you HAVE to have him be Primaris, the normal one is just as good for less points. Yes he looses 1 wound and 1 attack but he also gains a pure Arsenal of weapons the Primaris cannot take, Plasma, Jump pack, Hammer, etc. The biggest thing you have to learn with Deathwatch is that we are always trying to find points to add in that extra unit or Character. We are severely undermanned as a codex and the more bodies you bring will provide just as much help as a shinny weapon. The Primaris librarian is also cool but suffers the same problem as the Captain, you cannot put a jump pack on him and place him anywhere on the field. As long as you understand the pros and cons you can make the decision on durability or tactical ability.

 

 

I don't know about Stormtalon Gunships but remember they will not benefit from our strengths with re-rolls to wounds, only dreadnoughts do that with regards to vehicles.

 

I understand the problem with the Agressors, you could usually pick up the fourth one off Ebay for a tenner but recently the only ones you get now are ones from the Tooth and Claw box set. You can get all three from around £17-£20. With regards to the AP on the weapons you have a few options, either accept the extra shots with the reduced AP, switch out for a full squad of intercessors with the -1AP but less shots, take Hellblasters for the overcharge/-3AP or as Black Orange suggested on another thread take more Inceptors with their higher AP for higher costs. I would take Volume of shots but that may not work for you.

 

"Finally how well do Terminators work in a DW list"....................................Can I introduce you to this lovely can of Rainbow Paint....... They are possibly OK as a single model in a normal Veteran squad as a way to use the Teleport Homers or act as a meat shield with a 2+ save but I think everyone agrees they are WAY over costed right now and severely prone to slipping on a banana and dying outright. Almost every battle report I watch now they die in a volley.... a single volley... We have the teleport stratagem, so save your points with a normal squad of Veterans with Storm Bolters and deep strike them instead.

 

Reivers are meh, great at dropping in but they will die to a stiff breeze. Again dropping in Storm bolter Vets or a dreadnought, really is better. Adding them to a kill team comes at a cost. If you add them to Aggressor centric kill team you loose an Aggressor and the whole squad goes from Toughness 5 to 4. Not really worth the grenade when our kill teams are not really meant to charge, they are meant to stand firm and overwatch the enemy to death.

 

Deathwatch players are one of three things, either we do our best to be competitive by running double Battalion, or they are a little quirky(The best kind of quirky) and want to roleplay or finally a bit of both. If you want to run a Reiver squad and call it the Deathwatch Suicide Squad(Please watch Monty Python: Life of Brian) then do it. If you want to run a double Battalion but run with terminators in your kill teams, then try it out. If you are Boys before Toys and you run with six full man Storm Bolter squads with an Angel Choir of deep striking Blood Angel  Storm bolter Marines, then do it.  Its all good and we do not discriminate

[Syward]

Thanks for all the responses everyone. I really appreciate it.

 

I’ve been sold on the idea of the Intercessor/Aggressor combination – I completely missed the Firestorm rule for the Aggressors. I really love the look and the larger models for the Primaris, so all infantry will be Primaris models. I’m not a tournament player, so I’m not worried about being super competitive, I want to play for fun, but also don’t want to get ROFL-Stomped either. Here’s what I’m thinking for my 2000 point list:

 

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Deathwatch) [77 PL, 1388pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Armory of the Watch Fortress (1 Relic)
Gametype: Matched

 

 

+ HQ +
Primaris Librarian [7 PL, 102pts]: 3) Psychic Scourge, 6) Null Zone, Bolt Pistol, Force sword, The Beacon Angelis
 

Primaris Watch Captain [6 PL, 98pts]: Lord of Hidden Knowledge, Power sword, Tome of the Ectoclades, Warlord
. Master-crafted auto bolt rifle & bolt pistol: Bolt Pistol, Master-crafted auto bolt rifle
 

 

+ Troops +
Intercessors [16 PL, 296pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher
 1x Intercessor Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle, Chainsword

 4x Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle

 4x Hellblaster: Bolt Pistol, Plasma incinerator
 1x Inceptor: 2x Plasma Exterminator

 

Intercessors [16 PL, 296pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher
 1x Intercessor Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle, Chainsword

 4x Intercessor: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle

 4x Hellblaster: Bolt Pistol, Plasma incinerator
 1x Inceptor: 2x Plasma Exterminator

 

Intercessors [16 PL, 298pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher
 1x Intercessor Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle, Chainsword

 4x Intercessor: Auto Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol

 4x Aggressor: Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets, Fragstorm Grenade Launchers
 1x Inceptor: 2x Assault bolter

 

Intercessors [16 PL, 298pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher
 1x Intercessor Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Bolt rifle, Chainsword

 4x Intercessor: Auto Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol

 4x Aggressor: Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets, Fragstorm Grenade Launchers
 1x Inceptor: 2x Assault bolter

 

 

++ Air Wing Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [27 PL, 612pts] ++

+ Flyer +
Stormtalon Gunship [9 PL, 204pts]: Twin assault cannon, Two Lascannons
Stormtalon Gunship [9 PL, 204pts]: Twin assault cannon, Two Lascannons
Stormtalon Gunship [9 PL, 204pts]: Twin assault cannon, Two Lascannons

++ Total: [104 PL, 2000pts] ++

 

 

To expand to 2500pts I’ve been toying with one of the following scenarios. (It’s going to be a ways off so I’m just entertaining ideas right now):

1. Add a Deathwatch Vanguard Detachment w/a Primaris Watch Captain w/Bane Bolts & w/Power Sword, MC Auto-Bolt Rifle & Bolt Pistol and 3x Dreadnought w/Assault Cannon & DCCW w/Storm Bolter @ 500pts
2. Add a Primaris Watch Captain w/Bane Bolts & MC Auto-Bolt Rifle & Bolt Pistol and 2x Redemptor Dreadnoughts w/Macro Plasma & DCCW w/Heavy Flamer & Fragstorm Launchers + Icarus @ 498pts
3. Split into 2x Battalions and add a Primaris Watch Captain w/Bane Bolts & MC Auto-Bolt Rifle & Bolt Pistol and a Librarian and 2x Intercessor Squads w/Sgt & 4x Intercessor’s w/Auto Bolt Rifle + Aux Grenade & 1x Inceptor w/Assault Bolter @ 498pts

Right now I think I'm leaning towards the 2nd option w/the 2x Redemptor's b/c the models are so cool, but I'm thinking the 3x Dreadnoughts might be better for extra shots and the extra CP. I know I'll get a lot more CP if I do a 2nd Battalion, but one of the things I like about the Primaris is the lower model count (makes it seem more like an elite strike force IMO) so I'm not sure I'd want to bring another 12 infantry models.

[Syward]

@Lemondish: Thanks a ton for the info. Your post was a huge help. I really appreciate it. You and SnakeChisler sold me on the Intercessor/Aggressor squads, they sounds like tons of fun.

 

 

 

If your putting Hellblaster's in squads with Marines you can combat squad splitting your Hellblaster's up makes it even harder for your opponent to focus fire on them.

Thanks for the input. How would you recommend splitting them into combat squads?

 

 

 

Welcome back to the hobby and to DW!  I feel like SnakeChisler did a great job answering the majority of your questions, so the only thing I'd add is as you get comfortable with list building, try posting your list ideas in the Deathwatch Army Lists subforum.  In addition, if you're comfortable with doing so please post up your model/army pictures, particularly if you get the chance to start painting!

Thanks! I got back into it and decided to start playing when my 16yr son expressed an interest in playing, so we picked up the Dark Imperium box set for me and a Starter Necron Army for him. I’ll definitely be posting pics as I progress with the army, right now I’m still in planning & buying stage, but hope to have a Capt. & and the Intercessor/Hellblasters squads ready for paint soon.

 

 

 

"Finally how well do Terminators work in a DW list"....................................Can I introduce you to this lovely can of Rainbow Paint.......

I love this analogy, made me chuckle and got the point across perfectly. “Sounds good, but really it’s just going to be a mess”

 

 

I don't know about Stormtalon Gunships but remember they will not benefit from our strengths with re-rolls to wounds, only dreadnoughts do that with regards to vehicles.

My primary desire for the Stormtalons is to fill my AT void and bring some highly mobile AA firepower as well. Then of course there’s the cool factor. They’re great looking models IMO.

[Lemondish]

@Lemondish: Thanks a ton for the info. Your post was a huge help. I really appreciate it. You and SnakeChisler sold me on the Intercessor/Aggressor squads, they sounds like tons of fun.

 

 

No problem! Welcome to the watch

 

 

Thanks! I got back into it and decided to start playing when my 16yr son expressed an interest in playing, so we picked up the Dark Imperium box set for me and a Starter Necron Army for him. I’ll definitely be posting pics as I progress with the army, right now I’m still in planning & buying stage, but hope to have a Capt. & and the Intercessor/Hellblasters squads ready for paint soon.

 

The Dark Imperium box set is how I started with DW myself! A few tips - don't be afraid to cut, file, and sand off those molded on shoulder pads so you can add the DW one from an upgrade sprue. It'll look better than just painting them silver. Even if you end up being a little overzealous with the first couple, you'll soon get the hang of it and can always repair it a bit with green stuff. Also, consider acquiring a couple 32mm bases to put those Lieutenants on. They can fit in really well as Sergeants since DW doesn't actually use Lts. Finally, as sad as it is, the Gravis Captain and Chapter Ancient aren't units we can bring...but they might be good sources for conversions! 

 

 

My primary desire for the Stormtalons is to fill my AT void and bring some highly mobile AA firepower as well. Then of course there’s the cool factor. They’re great looking models IMO.

 

As an alternative, if you want to stick to flyers but also stay within DW, I suggest using the FW Xiphon as mobile AT and AA firepower. Real BSG vibe from it, which is lovely. They're significantly more capable at this role than the other flyers, but limited on anti-infantry and come with that hefty FW price tag. Not to mention you have to work with resin (yuck!). 

 

That isn't to say you shouldn't use the Stormtalons, it's just that the Xiphone fits the void well and you get to use DW strats on it without having to add it in as a separate codex marine detachment. But if you do go with the talons, Iron Hands might be great here since it gives you a unique stratagem for those units that you can't get elsewhere - the ability to move and shoot heavy weapons on a vehicle without penalty might be super beneficial for the Talon - moving fast and hitting a ground target on a 2+ would be really great for those times where you really need to make those shots land. 

[Syward]

 

As an alternative, if you want to stick to flyers but also stay within DW, I suggest using the FW Xiphon as mobile AT and AA firepower. Real BSG vibe from it, which is lovely. They're significantly more capable at this role than the other flyers, but limited on anti-infantry and come with that hefty FW price tag. Not to mention you have to work with resin (yuck!). 

 

That isn't to say you shouldn't use the Stormtalons, it's just that the Xiphone fits the void well and you get to use DW strats on it without having to add it in as a separate codex marine detachment. But if you do go with the talons, Iron Hands might be great here since it gives you a unique stratagem for those units that you can't get elsewhere - the ability to move and shoot heavy weapons on a vehicle without penalty might be super beneficial for the Talon - moving fast and hitting a ground target on a 2+ would be really great for those times where you really need to make those shots land. 

Holy smokes that FW Xiphon looks amazing, I didn't know it existed. Right now the cost is a huge factor, I can almost get all three of the Stormtalons for the price of one Xiphon, so I'll most likely stick with the Stormtalons for now - I'll definately look into using the Iron Hands strat for them though sounds like a great combo.

 

I really like the Xiphon model and may end up looking into it once I get a copy of the Imperial Armor - are the units the Deathwatch can use included in the Imperial Armour – Index: Forces of the Adeptus Astartes or is there a different book I need? 

[Black Knight]

If money is an issue and when is it not, then Ebay is your friend. You can find the Primaris half of Dark Imperium. Or you could even sell off the Nurgle half if you're into that.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=Dark+Imperium&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=Dark+Imperium+primaris&_sacat=0

 

Necron army sets can also be found from the Forgebane box set.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=Dark+Imperium+primaris&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=forgebane+necron&_sacat=0

 

I completely agree with Lemondish, its a pain to have to cut the shoulder pads off but it just makes it more fun when you don't have to do it with the normal sets.

[Black Knight]

Just thinking about it you may want to hold off buying the fliers till nearer Christmas, we have Chapter Approved coming up and maybe we will get lucky and our own flier will become alot more appealing.

[Lemondish]

Just thinking about it you may want to hold off buying the fliers till nearer Christmas, we have Chapter Approved coming up and maybe we will get lucky and our own flier will become alot more appealing.

That's a good point. The Corvus getting better would be a fantastic benefit...

 

I also hope for Land Raider improvements. I love those two vehicles but they feel so lacking...

[Syward]

If money is an issue and when is it not, then Ebay is your friend. You can find the Primaris half of Dark Imperium. Or you could even sell off the Nurgle half if you're into that.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=Dark+Imperium&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=Dark+Imperium+primaris&_sacat=0

 

Necron army sets can also be found from the Forgebane box set.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=Dark+Imperium+primaris&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=forgebane+necron&_sacat=0

 

I completely agree with Lemondish, its a pain to have to cut the shoulder pads off but it just makes it more fun when you don't have to do it with the normal sets.

 

The monetary cost of a kit isn't really my concern, it's the value I get out of the kits. For example, to use the Xiphon, as cool looking as it is, I'd spend $132 USD + $24 USD for the rules so $156 USD for a single model, where I can instead get 3 Stormtalon kits for $165 USD - so for $10 more, I get more value by having 3 units that I can use on the table if that makes sense. Same thing applies to my question about the Aggressors, I'll end up buying 3 kits so I can field 4 of them in 2 different units, but before spending the money on the models, I wanted to make sure they'd be a good value on the table. I'll also most likely play test using Aggressors before I buy them just to be sure I like how they play. That way if I don't like them, I can buy other kits instead.

 

I'm purchasing fresh kits for my Deathwatch Army. I'm actually going to make my Primaris Marines that came w/the DI box set into a mixed Imperial Fists force with left over Tactical/Devastator squads from year ago. 

 

I also plan to build & paint up the Deathguard. I'm not a fan of the Deathguard personally, but my son loves them, so they'll be his 2nd army. I also picked up the Chaos Khorne Demons starter army that I plan to build up to about 1000pts for when I don't feel like playing Space Marines.

 

Just thinking about it you may want to hold off buying the fliers till nearer Christmas, we have Chapter Approved coming up and maybe we will get lucky and our own flier will become alot more appealing.

 

 

Just thinking about it you may want to hold off buying the fliers till nearer Christmas, we have Chapter Approved coming up and maybe we will get lucky and our own flier will become alot more appealing.

That's a good point. The Corvus getting better would be a fantastic benefit...

 

I also hope for Land Raider improvements. I love those two vehicles but they feel so lacking...

 

I wish they hadn't restricted the transport capability on Space Marine vehicles to exclude Primaris. I get they want to sell the Repulsors, but that model is way to points costly to move around the Primaris. I I have 2 Land Raiders & 2 Drop Pods from 10+ years ago from when I originally started my Black Templars Counts-As. I love the Land Raider models, but I agree, they seem very expensive points wise for what they bring to the table. (Although, I'll most likely still use them for my Black Templars Counts-As I started once I finish up the Primaris Armies) 

 

I was also curious about the Corvus, and considered it, but ultimately decided against it since the transport capacity would be wasted with an all Primaris Army list and it has less firepower than the Stormtalons for more points. The bombing run did sound pretty neat though, but man I can't roll a 6 to save my life (unless I don't want to roll a 6!) LOL.

 

I think if the Corvus became better, (read able to transport Primaris) I'd actually use a couple of them them in the army, but I don't know how likely it would be. But, the Stormtalons will most likely be the last kits I buy, and it'll probably be after Christmas. 

[SnakeChisler]

Inceptors are short range guns I've found that the didn't do much at all with the mixed Hellblaster's squads, as for letting you duck out of combat I found the cost and the 18" range on back to mid board units meant they didn't get to hardly shoot, one of the things people tend to avoid is getting into rapid fire shot range of the Hellblaster's ( double tap is 15").

 

In terms of the flyers or another anti tank option then 3 is a good number but for me the cost and lack of synergy with your army (no way of re-roll buffing) makes them a hard sell. The Stormtalon is pretty pricey and the strafing run rule option only works against vehicles without the fly keyword ( Eldar, dark Eldar & Tau vehicles and units have a lot of fly)

[Lemondish]

Inceptors are short range guns I've found that the didn't do much at all with the mixed Hellblaster's squads, as for letting you duck out of combat I found the cost and the 18" range on back to mid board units meant they didn't get to hardly shoot, one of the things people tend to avoid is getting into rapid fire shot range of the Hellblaster's ( double tap is 15").

 

In terms of the flyers or another anti tank option then 3 is a good number but for me the cost and lack of synergy with your army (no way of re-roll buffing) makes them a hard sell. The Stormtalon is pretty pricey and the strafing run rule option only works against vehicles without the fly keyword ( Eldar, dark Eldar & Tau vehicles and units have a lot of fly)

I've never really had a problem with the Inceptor contributing to the fight as it's my intent to get the Hellblasters into rapid fire as soon as possible. I never treat them as back to mid board units because double tap plasma is, quite honestly, the only anti-tank option for Primaris. Being able to deep strike them is perfect.

 

And when you're playing that aggressive, the opponent has an awful lot of options to silence that unit. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a transport used to eat overwatch or lock up the unit in combat so it can't fire next turn. Likewise, it opens up the option to toss the unit into combat if you want to try and protect it from shooting. Definitely depends on how you intend to use the unit. You can still be threatened at mid range by a fast unit looking to shut down your shooting, even if you're playing defensively. The Inceptor has always been worth it for my teams, but I use them aggressively.

[Syward]

Inceptors are short range guns I've found that the didn't do much at all with the mixed Hellblaster's squads, as for letting you duck out of combat I found the cost and the 18" range on back to mid board units meant they didn't get to hardly shoot, one of the things people tend to avoid is getting into rapid fire shot range of the Hellblaster's ( double tap is 15").

 

In terms of the flyers or another anti tank option then 3 is a good number but for me the cost and lack of synergy with your army (no way of re-roll buffing) makes them a hard sell. The Stormtalon is pretty pricey and the strafing run rule option only works against vehicles without the fly keyword ( Eldar, dark Eldar & Tau vehicles and units have a lot of fly)

My plan for this army is to be a flexible, but aggressive force. I'll be deep striking the Intercessor/Hellblasters and taking advantage of the movement range of the Intercessor/Aggressor squads to quickly get into position and hopefully overwhelm my opponent with the volume of fire. It's also why I'l be using the Beacon on the Librarian to give me another method to quickly re-deploy a unit either as a means to save the unit or move them where needed.

 

I want to have the have the Stormtalons to give me some much needed AT/AA power that can also be used against Infantry with their Twin Assault Cannons. I agree, they are expensive, but compared to the Corvus or taking enough Dreadnoughts to have the same amount of LC shots, it's the cheaper and/or more flexible option. A Corvus has less firepower, but costs more and the transport capacity would be wasted. Dreadnoughts are slightly cheaper, but much less mobile and durable than the Stormtalons. Taking 3 Predator's as a spearhead is an option, but costs as much as or more than the Stormtalons depending on how how many LC I equip and having to take Chronus and they're not as mobile and I still wouldn't be able to reroll w/the Captain. The Predators do have a higher toughness and an extra wound, but I think the hard-to-hit rule makes up for that IMO. I could take Razorbacks as a cheaper LC platform, but I'd need several of them to equal the firepower of the Stormtalons and their transport capacity would be wasted just like the Corvus and they'd be limited to a single role (aside from using them as mobile terrain) but I would be able to make use of the Captain's buff. 

 

I do wish I could buff the Stormtalons with my captain, but I plan to take them as Iron Hands as Lemondish suggested, to make use of the IH vehicle stratagem which should help make up for not being able to buff them w/the Captain. The strafing run rule makes the Assault cannons more valuable and If I use the IH stratagem against vehicles that can fly, it should help make up for not being able to use the strafing run rule.

 

 

Inceptors are short range guns I've found that the didn't do much at all with the mixed Hellblaster's squads, as for letting you duck out of combat I found the cost and the 18" range on back to mid board units meant they didn't get to hardly shoot, one of the things people tend to avoid is getting into rapid fire shot range of the Hellblaster's ( double tap is 15").

 

In terms of the flyers or another anti tank option then 3 is a good number but for me the cost and lack of synergy with your army (no way of re-roll buffing) makes them a hard sell. The Stormtalon is pretty pricey and the strafing run rule option only works against vehicles without the fly keyword ( Eldar, dark Eldar & Tau vehicles and units have a lot of fly)

I've never really had a problem with the Inceptor contributing to the fight as it's my intent to get the Hellblasters into rapid fire as soon as possible. I never treat them as back to mid board units because double tap plasma is, quite honestly, the only anti-tank option for Primaris. Being able to deep strike them is perfect.

 

And when you're playing that aggressive, the opponent has an awful lot of options to silence that unit. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a transport used to eat overwatch or lock up the unit in combat so it can't fire next turn. Likewise, it opens up the option to toss the unit into combat if you want to try and protect it from shooting. Definitely depends on how you intend to use the unit. You can still be threatened at mid range by a fast unit looking to shut down your shooting, even if you're playing defensively. The Inceptor has always been worth it for my teams, but I use them aggressively.

This is how I plan to use Intercessor/Hellblaster squads too. I'll mostly setting them up via deep strike with a captain into rapid fire range to put out as much rapid fire plasma as I can. I past games I've played with Hellblasters, they get tied up in CC very often in an effort to keep them from shooting, so much so that I had to play with Ultramarines rules (I havne't played a game as Deathwatch yet) just to be able to fall back & keep shooting. With my intent to always deep strike them into rapid fire range, the shots from the Inceptor definitely won't go to waste from my perspective. 

[Black Knight]

The main problem we have as an army is taking on vehicles, not anti infantry. SIA is a simple anti-infantry answer, so I would focus on anti-vehicle loadouts for your fliers. The best anti-vehicle we have as DW is either Veteran squads with missiles, Hellblasters, or Dreadnoughts with Las cannons and Missile Launchers. We also have multiple mortal wound stratagems.

 

There is also the option of Helverins as a hard hitting elite/vehicle killer.

[Lemondish]

The main problem we have as an army is taking on vehicles, not anti infantry. SIA is a simple anti-infantry answer, so I would focus on anti-vehicle loadouts for your fliers. The best anti-vehicle we have as DW is either Veteran squads with missiles, Hellblasters, or Dreadnoughts with Las cannons and Missile Launchers. We also have multiple mortal wound stratagems.

 

There is also the option of Helverins as a hard hitting elite/vehicle killer.

Exactly, that's why allies are a great source for this.

 

At least unless we get something, anything, in Chapter Approved that makes Repulsors, Land Raiders, Blackstars, Missile Launchers, and Melta better or available on more durable, cost efficient platforms. Some of those might need more help than others, but DW has access to all the tools...they're just woefully inefficient compared to allies.

 

That might change, and if it does...

 

Oh, the possibilities lol My combi-melta teams in a Blackstar or Land Raider might actually feel better haha

[SnakeChisler]

I'm still not convinced that 3 space potatoes are the best solution.

 

Admittedly forge world Dreads are pricey, Ther's a scorpius Whirlwind I have my eye on anyways like you I have 5/600 points spare and have chosen to use it on a supreme command detachment of Sammael in Sableclaw and 2 Lt speeders. Not ideal for anti tank but with re-roll support weight of dice fetches stuff down and combat output is high strength and decent.

 

The choice is made on the back of having a Ravenwing army anyways and they have the speed to redeploy quickly (speeders are 16" move) are characters so can be harder to target + have inbuilt synergy between them ( re-rolls, ignores cover, strategems for advancing and shooting / charging + able to use "only in death).

 

Granted my current solution doesn't have Las in it and I'd like to find a Deathwatch solution to the problem.

[Lemondish]

I'm still not convinced that 3 space potatoes are the best solution.

Certainly true - but they're good enough, cheaper plastic, and look great.

 

Admittedly forge world Dreads are pricey, Ther's a scorpius Whirlwind I have my eye on anyways like you I have 5/600 points spare and have chosen to use it on a supreme command detachment of Sammael in Sableclaw and 2 Lt speeders. Not ideal for anti tank but with re-roll support weight of dice fetches stuff down and combat output is high strength and decent.

Don't mean to be cheeky, but that's probably even less valid as a solution. Still good enough, and you should go with it. Sounds fun!

 

The DW AT solutions are all cost inefficient but can still work really well for you in certain matchups. As I mentioned, it's super weird that DW technically has a bunch of AT options - they're just mostly all suffering from glaring flaws so it creates this belief that DW can't do AT.

[Syward]

I'm still not convinced that 3 space potatoes are the best solution.

 

 

Space potatoes? That gave me a chuckle. 

 

Since I want all of the Infantry units in my Army to be Primaris, I'm fairly limited (albeit self imposed) on what my AT options are from the DW codex. Plus, I really like the look of the Stormtalons, and I really like the the thematic element that they bring to my army by having some airborne heavy support. I do love Dreadnoughts and I'm planning on having a couple Redemptors w/plasma in the list. My list is plasma heavy so I know I have some fairly decent AT from there. 

 

Really, I just love the look and the idea of the Space Potatoes, and want to include them in my list. I think they're great looking models and I love the idea that I'll have close air support for my elite units on the ground.