Mech guard in 8th

[oldmanlee]

Hi all I've been out of the 40k loop for about a year

Is mech guard worth playing at all ?

[domsto]

It can be

BUT

Transports aren't that great in this Edition and Chimeras are way overcosted, but they can work if you use the Tallarn Doctrine for moving and firing without penalty.

The Tallarn Trait is in Fact the only one that works well with this kind of List.

The second thing is the Fact that Tanks can be locked in CC and you need a proper Screen to defend them against first turn charges.

So a full mech Force would be very vulnerable to this.

So Mech Guard can work but it is in no way a competitive Build, but in a game with friends why not?

[Tyr13]

Yeah, it can work reasonably well with Tallarn. Which I find annoying seeing as it should be the Armageddon specialty... it mostly works by target overload. You run so many tanks that enemy AT is hopelessly swamped. By the time hes put a dent into your armour, youll have wittled down threats to your infantry enough that theyre mostly uncontested. In theory anyway. In practice, any knights in your meta will lead to excessive amounts of AT, so losing several tanks a turn is a very real threat. Still fun though.

[duz_]

Welcome back to the barracks.

 

Domsto and Tyr13 have some good insight. I believe there's a couple of threads on this recently. You shouldnt have to go back too far to see a few more threads.

 

Personally what I like about this edition is that foot guard is so good you dont need mech guard.

If youre playing Maelstrom they'll probably be more useful. Picking the right Regiment would certainly boost their effectiveness too.

 

Don't forget to report to the commissariat to discuss being AWOL. ;)

[TheUbikator]

Tournament - hell no it won't work.

 

Friendly gaming - it works.

 

I've been playing mech guard for entire 8th ed and I'd had a lot of fun. I would wait with buying anything until CA though, any point increase in guardsmen not accompanied with reducing prices of chimeras will make mech guard unplayable. 

[steellegionnaire85]

I'm thinking Tallarn Chimera crews and Armageddon infantry. Maybe a few Tallarn tabk crews too

[The Titanz0r]

Since RAW says a Dedicated Transport may be taken for each OTHER choice, does that mean you could legally mix regiments, as far as infantry squads and transports go? As in, if I take four Armageddon Infantry squads, I could take four Tallarn Chimeras for them to hitch a ride? This seems against RAI. Would one be considered some real cheese if they took advantage of this, too?

[domsto]

Since RAW says a Dedicated Transport may be taken for each OTHER choice, does that mean you could legally mix regiments, as far as infantry squads and transports go? As in, if I take four Armageddon Infantry squads, I could take four Tallarn Chimeras for them to hitch a ride? This seems against RAI. Would one be considered some real cheese if they took advantage of this, too?

If you do so you lose the Regimental Doctrine, because every Unit still needs to be the some <Regiment> in a Detachment to gain access to the Doctrine.

 

But yes it is possible to play a Tallarn Detachment with Transports und in a diffrent detachment you play steel Legion.

The Steel Legion Guys could Ride the Tallarn Chimera.

And yes this is Intendet because Guard has a lot of Auxiliars without a <Regiment> keyword like Commissars, so to make them able to use Transports, the Chimera only needs the Keyword <Astra Militarum>.

[The Titanz0r]

@domsto If you had two detachments, would you still lose Doctrine? Say I had a Steel Legion battalion with four Infantry squads, and a Tallarn Spearhead with four Leman Russ tanks, I could still take the Chimeras in the spearhead without losing Doctrine. RAW only says one transport per other choice.

[domsto]

@domsto If you had two detachments, would you still lose Doctrine? Say I had a Steel Legion battalion with four Infantry squads, and a Tallarn Spearhead with four Leman Russ tanks, I could still take the Chimeras in the spearhead without losing Doctrine. RAW only says one transport per other choice.

That's pretty much what i said^^

So yes this would work just fine and you get both Doctrins.

I dont know why you would bother with steel legion Infantry but yeah.

[domsto]

@domsto If you had two detachments, would you still lose Doctrine? Say I had a Steel Legion battalion with four Infantry squads, and a Tallarn Spearhead with four Leman Russ tanks, I could still take the Chimeras in the spearhead without losing Doctrine. RAW only says one transport per other choice.

But keep in mind if you want to use the Steel Legion only Order "Mount up" you need an Armagedon Transporter.

So this wouldn't work if you plan on using it with Tallarn Chimeras

[MrZakalwe]

To be fair the Steel Legion regimental trait is fantastic at the moment with the huge amount of -1 rend attacks flying around.

[domsto]

To be fair the Steel Legion regimental trait is fantastic at the moment with the huge amount of -1 rend attacks flying around.

Are they?

I can't think of any weapon with only AP-1 that i would shoot at a Tank.

Maybe a Autocannon.

In all my Games i never ran into massed AP-1 fire. Not even against Necrons

[MrZakalwe]

My local area has (Helverin) autocannons everywhere so I guess your mileage may vary. 

[The Titanz0r]

@domsto Steel Legion's 18" Rapid Fire range is pretty strong, no? That would give you at least an extra turn of Rapid Fire shooting against charging units. Take Aim on a Command Squad/Veteran Squad of Plasma Guns and/or FRFSRF on an Infantry squad twice in a row is nothing to scoff at.

 

Another thing I've always been curious about. Steel Legion order Mount Up! allows you to shoot and immediately embark within 3" of a transport. Cool enough. What happens to the Commander issuing the order? It seems kind of silly and dumb for Commander to issue a movement order to his unit and then just stand there while the Chimera loads up and drives off. Now my Commander is stuck in the middle of nowhere, have to hoof it? RAW, this makes no sense.

[MrZakalwe]

A company commander can issue two orders so can order himself to mount up with the second one. 

 

Platoon commanders are a little boned though, I guess.

[domsto]

The 18" Rapid Fire is really situational in my Opinion. Most enemys can close the cap between 18" or 12" pretty fast so you only have your bonus for a short time.

 

For the Order you could use the Stratagem "Mobile Command Vehicle" to Order the Unite to hop in while the Commander is still in the Chimera. The only downside is you can only use it once a phase and the ordered unit needs a Voxcaster.

(A Vox-Array should have been a Vehicle Equipment by the way. No be looked behind a Stratagem, i mean the Chimera has it allready modeld on for Emperors sake)

 

But Yes the order is kinda Mehh and not a big lose if you cant use it. The same goes for theier Stratagem also just Mehh.

[The Titanz0r]

Seems to me that any of the Doctrines are situational, really. Catachan's 4 Str only comes into play during melee, Cadian's Re-roll 1 only works for stationary units. The idea, to me, is to get the most mileage out of your advantage or ability. An 18" Rapid Fire range would have plenty of tactical use, and could be used at nearly any point the unit is firing. Movement of 6" plus 18" Rapid Fire becomes 24" of threat range. A combination of movement and cover with the Chimeras (with the Chimeras possibly charging or taking a charge, if necessary, to further cover the squads) should see you through more than a few situations. The issue is the idea that Tallarn is focused entirely on mobility, whereas the Steel Legion is only notionally focused on mobility, while actually being focused on shooting and the Chimeras themselves. Several of the abilities are somewhat reduntant, like the Re-roll 1s to shoot after disembarking. However, it seems the Steel Legion wants to always be shooting, whereas the Tallarn want to always be moving.

[TheUbikator]

Seems to me that any of the Doctrines are situational, really. Catachan's 4 Str only comes into play during melee, Cadian's Re-roll 1 only works for stationary units. The idea, to me, is to get the most mileage out of your advantage or ability. An 18" Rapid Fire range would have plenty of tactical use, and could be used at nearly any point the unit is firing. Movement of 6" plus 18" Rapid Fire becomes 24" of threat range. A combination of movement and cover with the Chimeras (with the Chimeras possibly charging or taking a charge, if necessary, to further cover the squads) should see you through more than a few situations. The issue is the idea that Tallarn is focused entirely on mobility, whereas the Steel Legion is only notionally focused on mobility, while actually being focused on shooting and the Chimeras themselves. Several of the abilities are somewhat reduntant, like the Re-roll 1s to shoot after disembarking. However, it seems the Steel Legion wants to always be shooting, whereas the Tallarn want to always be moving.

Steel Legion is the weakest one in the codex. Chimeras want to be moving, with lasgun arrays, pintle mounted stormbolter/stubber and double heavy bolter they benefit most when in rapid fire range (12 lasgun shots, 4 storm bolter shots, 6 HB shots). Problem with Steel legion trait is, that it does nothing for the vehicles, everyone shooting chimera with -1AP is misallocating their resources. In most match ups it won't ever come to play (against DE, Eldar, Orks, Necrons or Marines). Best way to use SL trait is to field lots of infantry on foot, supported with sentinels with basilisks in the back. But at the same time strategems and orders suggest that you should use transports (which really you shouldn't). It's a mess.

 

While Tallarn doctrine comes into play all the time, advancing and shooting most of the time means that tallarn infantry has similar threat range as Steel Legion infantry, while it allows you to play more aggressively - taking cover is easier, you can snatch obj and still shoot. Your firepower is more accurate when advancing or relocating if forced by the enemy. Steel Legion is just hot garbage. I can't remember a game where I didn't advanced my infantry when disembarking from my chimeras.

[domsto]

Seems to me that any of the Doctrines are situational, really. Catachan's 4 Str only comes into play during melee, Cadian's Re-roll 1 only works for stationary units. The idea, to me, is to get the most mileage out of your advantage or ability. An 18" Rapid Fire range would have plenty of tactical use, and could be used at nearly any point the unit is firing. Movement of 6" plus 18" Rapid Fire becomes 24" of threat range. A combination of movement and cover with the Chimeras (with the Chimeras possibly charging or taking a charge, if necessary, to further cover the squads) should see you through more than a few situations. The issue is the idea that Tallarn is focused entirely on mobility, whereas the Steel Legion is only notionally focused on mobility, while actually being focused on shooting and the Chimeras themselves. Several of the abilities are somewhat reduntant, like the Re-roll 1s to shoot after disembarking. However, it seems the Steel Legion wants to always be shooting, whereas the Tallarn want to always be moving.

Yes but the situation in which the Steel Legion trait is a real bonus to you is far less then the situations where the Cadia,Chatachan,.... ones come to play.

 

If you want a hight freatrange play Vostroyia.

But sadly Steel Legion is one of if not the worst Regiments in the Codex.