Custodes that aren't as reliant on bikes

[necroscope]

I really don't dig these bike models for some reason.  I have 3 but I don't really want to make more.  I was thinking of just running them all as shield captains.  I have 9 Custodes Guard so I can have a battalion.  I also have a Warden Shield Captain, Terminators, Banner dude and 3 Wardens so I can have a Vanguard as well.  9 CP seems pretty good for pure guard.  

I was just wondering if anyone was running lists for Custodes that aren't all about bikes and how they do.  I've yet to play them.  

This isn't a tournament sort of thing I mostly play casual but I fight some people who enter tournaments and have strong lists and I like a chance at winning now and then.  

 

[MARK0SIAN]

I would say it will depend on the board. If you’re playing on a board with lots of features and scenery it is possible but if the board is fairly open then the low model count of Custodes means your opponent can just stay out of the way or screen the important stuff way too easily if you don’t have bikes. I would always keep at least a bike captain and three bikes in any Custodes list I run unless I was playing something like the old zone mortalis.

[THUNDERFISTS]

When the FW units come out with cheaper points and better rules, mono-Custodes will be in a good place without bike spam. 

 

The largest issue without Bikes now is a lack of speed and a relative lack of firepower. The Land Raider and Contemptors are overpriced (true for all versions) so there really isn't a solid option for dakka right now. You can still do fine footslogging it with lots of bodies, but keep in mind some armies can just avoid and shoot you like al Eldar types. Bikes shore up that weakness with their speed and volume of shots. 

 

Basically, no bikes is OK but you could get hosed. Some bikes are recommended, and bike spam is best for competition (unfortunately, for now).

[burningsky25]

The largest issue without Bikes now is a lack of speed and a relative lack of firepower. The Land Raider and Contemptors are overpriced (true for all versions) so there really isn't a solid option for dakka right now. 

 

For what it's worth I've actually found that a Telemon Dreadnought with 2x Illisatus Culverins is a pretty reasonable option for dakka.  For 90 points cheaper than a land raider it will do more damage against all targets, even if it moves and suffers a -1 to hit, all while significantly more durable.  I don't have the model and haven't had an opportunity to test it in-game, but statistically it's a straight improvement as long as you're not using a LR for the transport capacity.  

 

I think if you want to make a bike light list the biggest issue I would anticipate is facing swarms.  Low movement and engage potential can somewhat be mitigated by using terminators and From Golden Light to deepstrike, but nothing else in the codex can replace the shooting of a bike squad.  Just depends what you face locally, the two bike captains provide some reliable anti-swarm at least.

[rcoon]

Supreme Command of bikes at the very least, plus a basic battalion with a Shield Captain, three squads of 3 dudes (one in each squad with sword and board if you want to hold points) plus a basic vexilla with the -1 to hit. That's your bread and butter. Any extra points really ought to be spent on long range fire or can opening units. Since we have no long range fire aside from a FW unit that not many people can afford and costs quite a few points, look to IG. For can opening units, your termies can be stitched into your battalion since taking a vanguard is costly. I tend to run a squad of five termies if I ever use them. One always dies if I fail the charge, and four is about right to pry open a predator. Add an Allarus captain to drop with them for rerolls.

Wardens, to be frank, I have four of but have never used. They're not as good as allarus and not as cheap as basic custodian guard. I don't really see their point other than for making up a vanguard.

[CaptainMarsh]

I've had good success running multiple units of Custodian Guards. Few people expect to see thirty Custodian Guard at 2k and have had extreme difficulty removing them.

[swordofmandulis]

I've had good success running multiple units of Custodian Guards. Few people expect to see thirty Custodian Guard at 2k and have had extreme difficulty removing them.

I was thinking of doing this too, but in big squads to maximise strats

[BolterZorro]

this is a bit sad to see that what to say efficient is only buying 2 different boxes several times: guards boxes (which gives guards, vexila, captain) and bikes boxes (which gives...hum...bikes lol).

I already have a contemptor (for my primaris, not painted yet but my color shem goes with my primaris AND custodes) and I didn't play it at all: too expensive for what it gives (with my primaris). Hope CA will fix this.

(same goes with redemptor & repulsor)

[shanewatts]

Captain Marsh how are you equipping the 30 guardians? Curious to see what your 2k looks like.

[Sonoftherubric21]

I've had good success running multiple units of Custodian Guards. Few people expect to see thirty Custodian Guard at 2k and have had extreme difficulty removing them.

 

 

Captain Marsh how are you equipping the 30 guardians? Curious to see what your 2k looks like.

 

I second this! Captain: any advice on a foot slogger Custode list? I don't want to spam bikes in my list either. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

At 2k assuming for analysis you take one Shield-Captain on foot you could have 36 Guardians (all spears).

[Charlo]

Word is Chapter Approved has points reductions on the Allarus, Wardens and 75pts off big man Valoris himself.

 

Pinch of salt but could mean more variety for us.

[shanewatts]

75pts off on Valoris? That would be phenomenal. Hope that is true.

[kombatwombat]

75 off Valoris would be mint.

 

My current list runs Valoris, 6 Allarus, 5 Jetbikes, a Jetbike Captain and 12 spear Guard. It’d be interesting to see what the net change in points is.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Hope it’s all true.

[BolterZorro]

I'm not (yet) a custodes player but I'm interested by them as I'm putting 3 captains bikes to complete my primaris and mechanicus armies. And maybe then I'll jump in the goldy wagon.

 

How hard are they to play (to win)? What are the usual tactices? I've read that they are not to play to table the opponent but rather to make some tactic points.

Could you enlighten me please?

[rcoon]

I'm not (yet) a custodes player but I'm interested by them as I'm putting 3 captains bikes to complete my primaris and mechanicus armies. And maybe then I'll jump in the goldy wagon.

 

How hard are they to play (to win)? What are the usual tactices? I've read that they are not to play to table the opponent but rather to make some tactic points.

Could you enlighten me please?

Most people run bike captains and possibly a vexilla to make it even harder to kill the bikes. Obviously the vexilla carrier can't move very fast so it's more strategic placement and movement for the first few turns, but the vexilla has quite a few wounds and a decent melee capability, so it can take on smaller units by itself. The bike captains zip around the battlefield and generally blend enemy infantry into mincemeat with the hurricane bolters, and can also charge and engage flying units in melee which is rather delightful. Most players tend to have a loyal 32 IG battalion (Company Commander x 2, Infantry squad x 3) to hold backline objectives and provide some screening, as well as some CP farming capabilities.

 

With the rest of your points, people go numerous ways. Some, like Shane Watts, run a gigantic blob of bikes which further blend any non-vehicle units with hurricane bolters, and also use the Stooping Dive stratagem to get in extra fights with the bikes, since they're really quite good in melee against infantry and mid-range armoured units. You could run a blob of Custodian Guard in a battalion, march them up the battlefield and take and hold objectives. They're crap at shooting but exceedingly hard to kill, making them ideal for stealing enemy objectives (if they survive the three turns it takes them to get there). Get a load of Custodian Guard in melee with a predator and pop Piercing Strike and you can quite effectively cut it in half. The golden boys lack long range fire support, so some people run the Telemon dreadnought with two accelerators. Personally I run a Shadowsword with Psyker support because my meta is filled with Knights.

[shanewatts]

I can only speak from my own experience. (Some would say that I don't play a true Custodes army because I run bikes along with the loyal 32.) That said, I have won many games by tabling my opponent.

 

Even if you don't table your opponent, Custodes are very good at board control. In a game with progressive point scoring, board control is a massive advantage.

 

I have had plenty of games were I had 1-5 models left on the table at the end of turn 6, but won on the fact that those prior 5 turns I was running away with victory points from kills/objectives/etc.

 

 

I think we are getting away from the topic a little though. I am interested to hear about CaptainMarsh's 30 guardians haha.

[CaptainMarsh]

Captain Marsh how are you equipping the 30 guardians? Curious to see what your 2k looks like.

A 2k List of mine that is All Guard All The Time:

 

3 x 10 man Guard (541 per Squad)

- 7 Guardian Spears

- 3 Sentinel Blade+Storm Shields

 

2 or 3 x Shield Captain (320-350, 248-372, 288)

(Variance, depends on what style of captain I want that day)

- Sometimes 2 Bike Cappos (160 or 175 for 320-)

- More often than not if I am going No Bikes to this extent, 2 Castellan Axe Wielding Captains or 2 Castellan Axe Wielding Allarus Cappos.

- Sometimes 3 Castellan Axe Wielding Cappos.

 

Points left over go to a banner if possible, which is if I have  2 Castellan Axe Wielding Cappos

Magnifica for 122

 

If I don't have points for a banner, spend on Misericordias. 

- 14 if I have 2 Bike Cappos with Hurricanes, 6 if they have Salvo Launchers.

- 1 if I have 2 Castellan Cappos and a Magnifica.

- 1 if I have 3 Cappos.

- 32 if I have 2 Castellan Cappos. (This means entire force would get them, not that the Storm Shield using models would care)

- 22 if I have 2 Allarus Cappos. 

 

You can also spend those points not on Misericordias but more Storm Shield/Sentinel blade combinations. Not generally my cup of tea, but it is 100% valid and will make your opponent throw hot coffee into your eyelids. 

 

The list, regardless of the specifics of the HQs, does have its flaws. I don't move fast and I don't have efficient point per shot in the shooting phase. But I think my Melee is more efficient while wide access to 3+ invulnerable make my squads almost as survivable, if not more so, as an equal model bike squad. At least on a point by point basis. You can choose to ditch the Misericordias and add more Storm Shields and Sentinel Blades if you're really concerned about it. 

 

In my experience, it takes 2-3 turns of concentrated shooting at any one of those squads to wipe it. And they want to wipe them because when any of those squads connect they obliterate whatever they desire. Shooting wise they lack quantity but the AP and damage help them. And as long as your dice don't absolutely betray you or your opponent doesn't have a list tailored specifically to remove Custodes from the table it can be a terrible issue to deal with. And if your dice are favorable and kind? Then unless he is playing a Psyker Heavy, Heavy, Heavy list, he will lose and you will win. There is no other outcome, really.

 

They won't have the sheer flexibility that bikes give you, but they give you absurd levels of staying power. Plus strategems like Avenge the Fallen go from quaint to terrifying. Someone finally has a good turn and kills, say, five of your models in one unit, you get stuck in there in melee with that unit...and you counter with more attacks than you would have had he killed nothing that turn. 

 

You have 8 CP to play with. If I am running this list I used to spend some CP on sending a Good Boy Squad into DS, but I no longer do this. More value in across the army survival if I present all of my units, making it less likely that my opponent will try and single any one unit out. It can still happen, but it is more likely that damage will be spread early depending on deployments. Piercing Strike is valuable, and if you decide to modify and run Sentinel Blade/Storm Shield Heavy, Sentinel Storm can actually see some good use. Avenge the Fallen has already been discussed. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Very interesting list .

[BolterZorro]

if Trajan goes 75pts less, is he autoinclude?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

No but you’ll see him a lot more often.

[Dulahan]

Yeah. His warlord trait is bad. But at that point level at least you aren't hindering yourself by taking him.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Rerolling 1s to wound is huge... especially with Axes.

[CaptainMarsh]

I'd likely include him more often than not in the above mentioned list, as an example. Unless you have a Dreadnought he is the single best Melee model you have and he can heal, or fight twice, or get D3 CP back after you use a Strategem. More often than not that turns into CP. Strong melee, better than average shooting (still nothing to swagger about). Has the Misericordia base. Only wound re-roll in the book base without a strategem for a specific Salvo Launcher usage. Lots of good stuff! But worth 250? No. 175? Yeah, much better. Of course, I wish the Moment Shackle allowed you to use each of those abilities once per game rather than one of them once a game. That would be a capability boost, and a big one at that.

His WT is the weakest of them all, which is a major detriment. Then again you can always bring a second HQ and make that HQ your warlord and if you run a battalion like I more often than not it doesn't impede your normal list building. He'll be 33-31 points more expensive than an Allarus HQ, 15 points more expensive than Hurricane HQ, same as Salvo Launcher. Does his suite of capabilities close the gap? Up to your list style.