Custodes that aren't as reliant on bikes

[kombatwombat]

I ran the list I posted above in a large competitive tournament this weekend (I knew there would be a lot of Knights and Mortal Wound Spam but I didn’t think it would be as bad as it was!) which includes Trajann. I ran by biker captain as the Warlord as Trajann’s Trait is terrible.

 

I used 1CP to Deep Strike Trajann along with the 6 Terminators every game. By the time they got into combat, generally I’d spent all my CP so his D3 CP power didn’t see any use at all. Effectively the guy cost me 250pts and 1CP to use, but Christ if that unit made the charge it was terrifying. 7 2 damage bolters and 6 grenade launchers shooting, then 24 attacks + 3 Misericordias at 2+ rerollable to hit, Str8 AP-3 if the target didn’t have an invul, rerolling 1s to Wound nuked just about anything in one go. Then anything that had the temerity to survive got to eat twelve(!) attacks from Valoris using the moment shackle.

 

I would say at 175 Trajann would be great. The problem is that this required 6 bikes to first clear the landing zone with Hurricane Bolters (72 shots with rerolls is just enough to kill the Loyal 32 screen), so I guess it still relies on bikes.

[Fortunatus]

I ran the list I posted above in a large competitive tournament this weekend (I knew there would be a lot of Knights and Mortal Wound Spam but I didn’t think it would be as bad as it was!) which includes Trajann. I ran by biker captain as the Warlord as Trajann’s Trait is terrible.

 

I used 1CP to Deep Strike Trajann along with the 6 Terminators every game. By the time they got into combat, generally I’d spent all my CP so his D3 CP power didn’t see any use at all. Effectively the guy cost me 250pts and 1CP to use, but Christ if that unit made the charge it was terrifying. 7 2 damage bolters and 6 grenade launchers shooting, then 24 attacks + 3 Misericordias at 2+ rerollable to hit, Str8 AP-3 if the target didn’t have an invul, rerolling 1s to Wound nuked just about anything in one go. Then anything that had the temerity to survive got to eat twelve(!) attacks from Valoris using the moment shackle.

 

I would say at 175 Trajann would be great. The problem is that this required 6 bikes to first clear the landing zone with Hurricane Bolters (72 shots with rerolls is just enough to kill the Loyal 32 screen), so I guess it still relies on bikes.

 

Out of interest - on average what turn would you say you got your Allarus in CC with their target? How much CP did you have in your pool? And, did you run pure Custodes? *Edit - I see your posted list is pure custodes.

 

How did you rank overall in the tournament?

[BolterZorro]

With the LR point drop, maybe the transport solution will be a thing

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I don't think so because they are very easy to kill.

[kombatwombat]

Out of interest - on average what turn would you say you got your Allarus in CC with their target? How much CP did you have in your pool? And, did you run pure Custodes? *Edit - I see your posted list is pure custodes.

 

How did you rank overall in the tournament?

I ended up 27/58 with 3 wins and 3 losses, which for a not very competitive player in a very competitive event I was happy with. To give you a quick idea of how the list went:

 

Game 1 - Mortarion, 6 Deathshroud, 2 double Butcher Cannon Levi’s and a cultist screen - big win

Game 2 - Castellan, 3 Armigers, 3 Shield Captain Jetbikes, Loyal 32, Lascannon HWT - big loss

Game 3 - 3 Flyrants, 3 Neurothropes, 12 Hive Guard, 6 Biovores and 60 Gaunts - big loss (though we made a mistake with the Hive Guard’s damage being too high)

Game 4 - Mortarion, 3 Deathshroud, Ahriman, Exalted Sorceror, 4 or 5 Daemon Princes - tight win, a real nail-biter

Game 5 - Castellan, Mephiston, Smash Captain on Bike, Smash Captain on jump pack, big Death Company squad with jump packs, Intercessor squad, Scout Squad, Scout Bikers, Loyal 32, 3 Mortar HWTs - big win

Game 6 - Mortarion, Magnus, Daemon Prince, Bloodletter Bomb, 30 Plaguebearers, Scrivener, Ahriman, 2 Exalted Sorcerors - looking like a big win but turned on a single lucky roll into a big loss

 

I ran a Battalion, so 8CP less 1 for Trajann’s Deep Strike. First game the Terminators made the charge off Deep Strike and killed Morty. Second game they were screened out by the Loyal 32 and Jetbikes, made the charge again into Guardsmen then were shot off the board. Third game they failed the charge, made it into the Hive Guard on T3 before being smited to death. Fourth game they failed the charge again, made it into combat with one of the Daemon Princes T3 before being smited to death again. Fifth game they made the 9” charge into a Scout screen and leapfrogged off it to get close enough to charge the Castellan T3. Game 6 they failed the charge and were counter-charged by the Bloodletter Bomb which they soundly defeated in combat, but a lucky morale roll kept the last Bloodletter alive and pinned the Terminators in place to be smited from afar, ultimately losing me the game.

 

So I made 3/6 9” charges. Interestingly, making or failing the charge didn’t correspond to winning or losing the game. The bigger factor seemed to be Mortal Wounds - armies capable of piling them on were close to a foregone conclusion.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Dude it’s all about the wombo combos and tbh I really hate the badfeelsies.

[Prot]

I’ve been playing multiple games lately that are certainly not tournament level but still competitive.

 

I’ve found one of my playing groups has had a lot of problems with my Custodes and I’ve felt quite bad about it so even though I don’t really use heavy allies I decided to strip my list down to my favourite units and some less powerful choices resulting in a pure Custodes list with a lot of different units.

 

So at 2K we are talking Allarus, Trajann, a Contemptor, Wardens, 3 bikes, a Shield Captain bike ( I need -some- mobility hence 3 Vertus Praetors) and the standard 9 Guardian troops.

 

I wanted these guys to paste me so I could justify changing the list a bit. I had come off a win vs a dual Riptide list and that when I turned it down. Next random match up I play Necrons. I swear I should have lost. I think the Necron player was way too aggressive with his 6 Destroyers. I also have found my Custodes can’t do much to Wraiths. And he had a large squad but elected to go after my Contemptor. I think thieve two actions cost him the game because my Contemptor was a throwaway unit with a multimelta and he had so much trouble wounding it.... inevitably my bikes died and I managed to keep his Destroyer Lord tied up (they are nasty by the way). And I used my Guardians for board control for a fairly convincing win.

 

The other night I had a random matchup against a pure Blood Angels. Insane. I really thought he made some poor choice and got unlucky. He deep striked his smash Captain in front of my bikes I told him I would very likely play Auspex scan and had.a Shield Captain with the bikes meaning he would take 36 Bolter shots. He didn’t care but wow did he get lucky and somehow lived with 2 wounds remaining.

 

Long story short the BA should have won. I was very outshot, and he had great assault, but also had a Psychic phase and a larger foot print with speed. I really am surprised I won that one. We realized after the game he forgot to play Only in Death with his smash Captain combined with his other strats. This error allowed me to have one Bike and one biker Shield Captain which got lucky in his firebase and he couldn’t recover

 

I am surprised and disappointed so far. I know I’m headed for a whoopin’ with this list but I’d like an excuse to turn it up a bit too. I’m not sure if I’m just getting lucky or what.

[shanewatts]

Prot - I am fairly certain you can't Auspex Scan with bikes. Don't have the strat in front of me, but I believe only infantry units can use the stratagem.

[Prot]

Prot - I am fairly certain you can't Auspex Scan with bikes. Don't have the strat in front of me, but I believe only infantry units can use the stratagem.

 

Crap I think you're right. I'm not sure if it was Auspex scan.... is there a Custodes equivalent?

 

Luckily it made no difference then. As he got super lucky with his saves and his Captain would have died the way he did regardless... but it's important to note that with Only In Death.... he would have smoked the squad and put me in a real bind for mobility.

[shanewatts]

There is a Custodes equivalent, Ever Vigilant. It is infantry only as well like Auspex Scan.

[Prot]

There is a Custodes equivalent, Ever Vigilant. It is infantry only as well like Auspex Scan.

 

Yup I just found the exact wording.... I thought it was different for Custodes but I guess in name only because... hey Custodes don't carry Auspex's! :)

[BolterZorro]

Is it possible to build a solid list (almost competitive) with only:

 

2 or 3 boxes of bikes + 2 or 3 boxes of guards ?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Nope

[CaptainMarsh]

You're looking at 15 infantry models and 9 bikes. That puts you into an odd nebulous zone where you either need to limit your infantry for more bikes or ditch bikes to bring more infantry. I don't think you can build an honestly competitive list out of that selection, though as Custodes you'll likely not get face wrecked like many other non-competitive lists might during competitions.

[necroscope]

So just an update on how the army has worked out so far.  Again it is all I have and the only way to run 2000 with a pure army of Custodes until I can afford to expand the army.  

2 Shield Captain Bikes hurricane
1 Shield Captain Bike missles

1 Shield Captain Castellan Axe

3 Allarus

1 Vexilus Praetor with Magnifica

3 Wardens

Captain General

2  units 3 Custodian Guard with Spears

1 unit 3 Custodian Guard sword/shield

Everyone who can take misericordia does

Well I lose every game due to lack of board control and lack of good anti heavy stuff.  But I usually lose very closely.  I fight a mix of competitive and casual players so that they can do even as well as they have tells me I can do better.  I want one extra bike (trying to avoid bike spam) so I can have a squad of 3 regular bikes and the one captain.  I think I want Achilles Contemptor to deep strike as well.  I don't even get how people run Telemon in a 2000 pt army without sacrificing all flavor and fun from the army.   I just mean that they are so expensive you lose a lot of variety in units it seems.   Same for land raiders.  I find the most boring unit in the army to be Wardens but I love their models and hate to get rid of them. 

6 for anti psyker stuff seems basically useless.  Even 2 psykers smiting generally hurts this army badly.  

One big plus is transport.  I hate carting around a bunch of models.   They make a great out of the house army.  

[Prot]

I'm sorry to hear you're not experiencing some wins with that list. My own experience has been the opposite... unless someone is really geared to take me out with Mortal Wounds, I have been winning 90% of my games.

 

One big difference I have is 3 Bikes and one Shield Captain Bike. This is probably a critical difference. My board coverage is okay, but the deep threat is nearly immediate with the Virtus Praetor + Shield Captain Bike.  If you can't put that pressure on early, it's very hard to do so later in the game.

 

In my typical list I take a detachment which includes an Inquisitor psyker and greyfax for the reasons you mentioned.

[necroscope]

I've only played about 5 games with them so far so I'm sure some of it is down to my lack of experience.   I'm definitely adding an extra bike and one of the less expensive dreads when I can afford to so I'm hoping that will make a big difference.  

At some point I may have to look at adding a Cullexis or something like that but I'm really obsessed with running this army pure for now at least.  

[masterstrider]

What would people's thoughts be on a list like this?

 

Battalion +5CP

HQ - Trajann

HQ - Shield-Captain in Allarus Armour; Castellan Axe, misericordia

HQ - Shield-Captain in Allarus Armour; Castellan Axe, misericordia

 

TR - 8 Custodian Guard; 2 Sentinel Blade/Storm Shield, 6 Guardian Spears

TR - 8 Custodian Guard; 2 Sentinel Blade/Storm Shield, 6 Guardian Spears

TR - 8 Custodian Guard; 2 Sentinel Blade/Storm Shield, 6 Guardian Spears

 

EL - Vexilus Praetor; Castellan Axe, misericordia, Magnifica

EL - Vexilus Praetor; Castellan Axe, misericordia, Imperius

 

1995pts

 

That gives you 8 + D3CP with Trajann, around 103 wounds, 29 models. Each unit is -1 to hit, has a 3++ save and each custodian guard squad has 4A base ~ 32A in melee. Due to the larger unit sizes, every unit can pin to prevent getting shot, and gets reroll 1s to hit, and to rerolls 1s to wound if near Trajann. The Allarus can also use concussion grenades to help units get into melee while ignoring overwatch and giving the enemy -1 to hit. You also have a good amount of Castellan Axe's in case you need to bring down some knights.

 

I reckon this could be a very solid list.

 

Thoughts?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I would want the two captains on Dawneagles so you can deal with things like flyers and flyrants. I think you only need one Vexilla Praetor too. Overall I like the list but don’t know how it’ll perform versus internet lists.

[Charlo]

The list is cool as hell, but mobility is an issue. You can deep strike some stuff but it's eating into your limited 8CP to do so.

 

I'd almost say reduce one of the Guardians squads just to get something else in there, units of 5 work fine or you could risk a unit of 3 for cleanup duty/ objective holding.

 

It'll basically be a waiting game until you can hit the opponents lines though from there it will probably be over.

[swordofmandulis]

Comments to a few different posts.

 

In isolation the telemon is great, and as for it taking away flavour, my opinion is that it adds flavour, its something completely different to the rest of your army and without it you are just taking more of the same (probably bikes). The issue with it is that every one comes loaded for Knight these days, and as you can only ever have 1 in your army, its getting crushed by any half decent shooty army.

 

In regards to the all infantry list, I actually like this and want to run a golden tide list as some point, you won't have great mobility, but you will be able to control the centre of the table quite easily and you could put a significant threat in deepstrike, no one will want to charge you that's for sure, and you are maximising your 2 vexilla auras, I wondered about the auto pass morale relic vexilla for something like that list if you have 8-9 man squads but still can't really justify losing the imperius, although maybe you dont need the imperius, anything that comes into contact with you will most likely die anyway, especially if you can make the heroic intervention warlord trait work. If an army want to come and fight you then this list would be great, but It will struggle vs a nasty gun line or amazingly mobile army. I would want 2 bike captains instead of the allarus captains I think