Guest Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Zealous crusaders, was doing some studying on BT's armor paint scheme and a little confused. What do the the Crusaders Squads Initiates and Sword Brother paint on their left and right pauldrons/shoulders? I know the Sword Brother paints the edges of their shoulders red, but I have also seen some of the crosses painted red others black. So what is the proper method? Additionally what is the relationship with the various Imperial factions? Specifically Sisters of Battle, Scions, and Primaris in their ranks? I am a little confused due to conflicting lore. Some books stating that SoB hate SM's, however another book will say SoB and BT's get along great. I haven't read anything about interaction between Scions, Primaris and BT's. I imagine Scions, as long as they know their place, would get along okay with BT's as Scions are very strict about their candidacy, loyalty and faith. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350867-qs-about-bt-armor-scheme-and-faction-relations/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margulix Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Greetings, brother! About the scheme - we basically use the one from 4ed codex. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-09bwMowsgA4/VO4WWMJp--I/AAAAAAAACqA/NDx5EK1kDac/s1600/Black%2BTemplars%2BInsignia.jpg Of course a lot of BT players paint their plaudons differently, according to their crusade standarts. About faction relations. With primaris - yes, officially we use them, also i think there some only-primaris BT crusades out there. I think the Helbrecht allowed them after some push from Gulliman, but majorly they are disliked by regular BT marines (as regular BT players too. Anyway we do not have own upgrade sprue for them,). With sisters - usually BT considered they faithful ally because they both ZEALOUS (i wish GW giwe us AoF too) and so they get along well. But we had weird ally sheet in 6th edition i think where this alliance was considered yellow for some reason... I see no problem BT working with Scions or other AM divisions - in Helsreach the BT even allowed Imperial Navy to paint maltese crosses on their planes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350867-qs-about-bt-armor-scheme-and-faction-relations/#findComment-5180933 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 The Assault Squad colour scheme has been expanded to cover other units in more recent descriptions, under the title of close support. It seems to cover things like Reivers, centurions and maybe bike squads in the post-crusader bike squad era Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350867-qs-about-bt-armor-scheme-and-faction-relations/#findComment-5180961 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 So do BT wear the same design on both shoulders? No designation for squads? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350867-qs-about-bt-armor-scheme-and-faction-relations/#findComment-5180973 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Yep. Squad designations are a codex Astartes thing. We don't follow the organisational tenets laid down in that tome so don't need them, Templars fight more like a brotherhood, forming more ad-hoc squads and formations. The other fun thing you can do is make up your own colour schemes, for instance, all heavy weapon marines in my Crusade have one red pad and one black, both with white crosses. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350867-qs-about-bt-armor-scheme-and-faction-relations/#findComment-5180977 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Yep. Squad designations are a codex Astartes thing. We don't follow the organisational tenets laid down in that tome so don't need them, Templars fight more like a brotherhood, forming more ad-hoc squads and formations. The other fun thing you can do is make up your own colour schemes, for instance, all heavy weapon marines in my Crusade have one red pad and one black, both with white crosses. I won't be making any full armies....for now. I am just making a scene that includes SoB and some counterparts. BTs and Scions seem to fit the best. I wanted to use Primaris because of scale and the intercessors match a basic crusader squad. Maybe throw in a dreadnought in honor of Tankred. My idea for the Scions is to make a special group of them specifically to work with BTs. That mean no mutations of any kind, flawless faith, a Krieg-like suicide drive to complete the mission or simply taking a LasCannon fire instead of a BT, and most important Zeal. So the Scions will be decked in black and steel-ish colored carapace(mimicking a BT eagle creat on the chest), not sure if white pauldrons or not. I wanted them to be rather humble around BT's and believe their place is below a BT. Let me know if there is anything I can improve on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350867-qs-about-bt-armor-scheme-and-faction-relations/#findComment-5180995 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 I follow the 3rd edition "scheme" - some combination of red, black, and white, at least one Maltese cross, and personal litanies: ...believe their place is below a BT. After all, doesn't that apply to everybody? ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350867-qs-about-bt-armor-scheme-and-faction-relations/#findComment-5181111 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantomzero17 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 After saving Brother Tyler's image I made this album of the scheme guides I could remember from the books in my room. If there are any others ya'll can think of I can add them to the album. 3rd, 4th, 7th, Primaris, and 8th ed accounted for. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350867-qs-about-bt-armor-scheme-and-faction-relations/#findComment-5181453 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Those two 8th edition ones helpfully directly contradict eachother! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350867-qs-about-bt-armor-scheme-and-faction-relations/#findComment-5181474 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 ...believe their place is below a BT. After all, doesn't that apply to everybody? You say that but I see more and more of the BT's using the SW codex, something wrong with yours? ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350867-qs-about-bt-armor-scheme-and-faction-relations/#findComment-5181964 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantomzero17 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Those two 8th edition ones helpfully directly contradict eachother! It's wonderful innit? But about what I expect from GW. Plus our Chapter hasn't really been one for consistency eh? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350867-qs-about-bt-armor-scheme-and-faction-relations/#findComment-5182101 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Chaplain Matthias+ Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Those two 8th edition ones helpfully directly contradict eachother! The primaris one is different because Guilliman assigned it and coulnt quite remember the right scheme. At least he tried though. He didn't put arrows on their shoulders. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350867-qs-about-bt-armor-scheme-and-faction-relations/#findComment-5182105 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margulix Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Those two 8th edition ones helpfully directly contradict eachother! The primaris one is different because Guilliman assigned it and coulnt quite remember the right scheme. At least he tried though. He didn't put arrows on their shoulders. Lol! Like "Well what about those zealous lunatics who descended from Imperial fists? Black and white with some crosses, maybe ocasionally red, or something. Oh, and give them additional chaiswords. " Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350867-qs-about-bt-armor-scheme-and-faction-relations/#findComment-5182124 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Vespasian Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Those two 8th edition ones helpfully directly contradict eachother!The primaris one is different because Guilliman assigned it and coulnt quite remember the right scheme. At least he tried though. He didn't put arrows on their shoulders. Lol! Like "Well what about those zealous lunatics who descended from Imperial fists? Black and white with some crosses, maybe ocasionally red, or something. Oh, and give them additional chaiswords. " Where are my chainswords Roboute? I think I like the white cross on Black on black actually. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350867-qs-about-bt-armor-scheme-and-faction-relations/#findComment-5182126 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Those two 8th edition ones helpfully directly contradict eachother!The primaris one is different because Guilliman assigned it and coulnt quite remember the right scheme. At least he tried though. He didn't put arrows on their shoulders. Lol! Like "Well what about those zealous lunatics who descended from Imperial fists? Black and white with some crosses, maybe ocasionally red, or something. Oh, and give them additional chaiswords. " Where are my chainswords Roboute? I think I like the white cross on Black on black actually. WHERE ARE MY CLOSE COMBAT PRIMARIS WITH CHAINSWORD AND SHIELDS ROBOUTE!? WHERE ARE THEY!?! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350867-qs-about-bt-armor-scheme-and-faction-relations/#findComment-5182198 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Those two 8th edition ones helpfully directly contradict eachother!The primaris one is different because Guilliman assigned it and coulnt quite remember the right scheme. At least he tried though. He didn't put arrows on their shoulders. Lol! Like "Well what about those zealous lunatics who descended from Imperial fists? Black and white with some crosses, maybe ocasionally red, or something. Oh, and give them additional chaiswords. "Where are my chainswords Roboute? I think I like the white cross on Black on black actually. Except it is already the Chaplaincy badge? It does look good though, as does white on red Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350867-qs-about-bt-armor-scheme-and-faction-relations/#findComment-5182263 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margulix Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 i make the white crosses with white trim (to make it different from chaplain) for special veterans. also i love to paint a quarter of Maltese crosses on some plaudons because its easier than freehanding. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350867-qs-about-bt-armor-scheme-and-faction-relations/#findComment-5182269 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Vespasian Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 I might try a Quarter cross freehand on a veteran who has a nonsculpted pauldron. For Chaplains I do bone trim and bone crosses. To go with their skull masks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350867-qs-about-bt-armor-scheme-and-faction-relations/#findComment-5182274 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebaur Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 ...believe their place is below a BT. After all, doesn't that apply to everybody? You say that but I see more and more of the BT's using the SW codex, something wrong with yours? Codex SM is pretty subpar at the moment and some of the brothers here want to be as competitive as possible. For them, that means not using the real Templar rules and just going with something they feel is better. For myself, I could never do that as you are no longer playing Templars. To the topic at hand, the 4th edition scheme that was posted is pretty much still the default of what everyone uses with some variations here and there depending on their own crusade. I use it and have adopted the Chaplain badge (white cross on a black field) to simply be "Command" and characters like my Marshal will also use it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350867-qs-about-bt-armor-scheme-and-faction-relations/#findComment-5182676 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciler Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 To the topic at hand, the 4th edition scheme that was posted is pretty much still the default of what everyone uses with some variations here and there depending on their own crusade. I use it and have adopted the Chaplain badge (white cross on a black field) to simply be "Command" and characters like my Marshal will also use it.I wouldn't say "everyone", keep in mind that people here are pretty diehard fans. There's a mate at my local GW that has every pauldron in his army white with black cross (for reason of transfer availability). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350867-qs-about-bt-armor-scheme-and-faction-relations/#findComment-5182770 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 After saving Brother Tyler's image I made this album of the scheme guides I could remember from the books in my room. If there are any others ya'll can think of I can add them to the album. 3rd, 4th, 7th, Primaris, and 8th ed accounted for. Just for the sake of completeness, here's the 2nd Edition scheme for the Black Templars: (Click on the image if you want to see it biggerized! ) Yes, brothers, the Black Templars were originally conceived as a Codex Chapter. I'm sure that many of you would like to pretend that never happened. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350867-qs-about-bt-armor-scheme-and-faction-relations/#findComment-5183392 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 i like the colorscheme, a white cross on black shoulder. The green Aquila and the blue bolter is typical 2nd edition colorful style - I prefer 3rd and 4th dark future scheme. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350867-qs-about-bt-armor-scheme-and-faction-relations/#findComment-5183417 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal_Roujakis Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Also, the thing with the Sisters not being on absolute friendly terms with the Templars, have something to do way back in 3rd or 4th edition... you see, Templars erect Chapter Keeps on planets that they have visited (that Imperial Fist blood that tells us to fortify positions never fails...) they aren't like Fortress Monasteries, but more like outposts that are pretty damn well defended enough, but still quite small than the usual Codex Astartes Chapter Fortress. The Templars usually leave it with minimal staff... maybe some Servitors, or sometimes Chapter Serfs, some of those Keeps are just completely abandoned until the moment when Templars need to use it again to recruit from the world or to marshal and prepare for a new Crusade... it's usually a bad idea to set up shop in an abandoned Templar Keep, since some Chapter secrets or maybe even Astartes equipment are stored there, and last thing you want is to be caught red handed playing around with an Astartes trinket... The point is... an Inquisitorial garrison with some Ecclesiarchy elements decided that it would be an excellent idea to set up their brand spanking new base in the Templar Keep and while at it, use the Templars equipment for their own... after a few decades or so, the Templars came back... outraged (like usual) and verily annoyed, they demanded that the squatters abandon the keep... which they didn't want to do... after much shouting, arguing and pointing fingers, the Templars decided to just kick them out... literally... and so they engaged against the Ecclesiarchy forces and the Inquisition... they won and got their building back, but with the Sisters having some casualty and the Inquisition humbled, they decided that the Templars were not so great allies after all... After these events, the Inquisition started investigating and scrutinizing the Templars, asking about their total numbers and the Ecclesiarchy don't look at us too fondly... There was a white dwarf release where you can play this game scenario, where you use BT vs Ecclesiarchy and try to get the Ecclesiarchy off of the Templar Keep... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350867-qs-about-bt-armor-scheme-and-faction-relations/#findComment-5183422 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Didn't the BT also believe in the imperial truth instead of the imperial cult. It feels as though there was a huge leap in much lore from 1/2ed to 4th. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350867-qs-about-bt-armor-scheme-and-faction-relations/#findComment-5183425 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margulix Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 Also, the thing with the Sisters not being on absolute friendly terms with the Templars, have something to do way back in 3rd or 4th edition... you see, Templars erect Chapter Keeps on planets that they have visited (that Imperial Fist blood that tells us to fortify positions never fails...) they aren't like Fortress Monasteries, but more like outposts that are pretty damn well defended enough, but still quite small than the usual Codex Astartes Chapter Fortress. The Templars usually leave it with minimal staff... maybe some Servitors, or sometimes Chapter Serfs, some of those Keeps are just completely abandoned until the moment when Templars need to use it again to recruit from the world or to marshal and prepare for a new Crusade... it's usually a bad idea to set up shop in an abandoned Templar Keep, since some Chapter secrets or maybe even Astartes equipment are stored there, and last thing you want is to be caught red handed playing around with an Astartes trinket... The point is... an Inquisitorial garrison with some Ecclesiarchy elements decided that it would be an excellent idea to set up their brand spanking new base in the Templar Keep and while at it, use the Templars equipment for their own... after a few decades or so, the Templars came back... outraged (like usual) and verily annoyed, they demanded that the squatters abandon the keep... which they didn't want to do... after much shouting, arguing and pointing fingers, the Templars decided to just kick them out... literally... and so they engaged against the Ecclesiarchy forces and the Inquisition... they won and got their building back, but with the Sisters having some casualty and the Inquisition humbled, they decided that the Templars were not so great allies after all... After these events, the Inquisition started investigating and scrutinizing the Templars, asking about their total numbers and the Ecclesiarchy don't look at us too fondly... There was a white dwarf release where you can play this game scenario, where you use BT vs Ecclesiarchy and try to get the Ecclesiarchy off of the Templar Keep... Well local skirmishes between imperial factions happens. But i think this is more of a local thing than imperial-wide. And Ofc Templars have issues with inquisition sometimes, because inquisition is a very varied fraction. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350867-qs-about-bt-armor-scheme-and-faction-relations/#findComment-5183544 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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