Thoughts on the new Ork Codex

[antique_nova]

So, I've finally gotten my hands on the long awaited and highly hyped up and anticipated Ork codex and I have to say...

 

I'm disappointed. Before you continue reading my review, understand this. I am a highly competitive player who's sole focus is to win, because winning and trying to win is fun. But winning is more fun! The fun being in the challenge (when the dice gods don't hate you). However, I need you to understand what I mean by winning. By winning, I mean outsmarting my opponent in my deployment, choice of units, choice of army and understanding on of the rules without trying to warp or bend them to the point where you're clearly taking the micky. For example, I wouldn't rely on dark reapers perched up in a building where a monstrous creature cannot engage them in close combat on the second floor of a ruined building, because the rules say they can't. Personally, I think that's just ~@%&* stupid as hell. But anyway. Let's move to the meat of this topic.

 

Bear in mind. This is my first thoughts on the codex. So there maybe some things I've missed. Which is more than likely, because no matter how good you think you are, you can still make mistakes.

 

I'm going to split this review into three parts. What I like, don't like and the best list I can come up with at this time. (fluff not included)

 

What I like...

[stratagem] Unstoppable Green Tide: Finally a stratagem that can match the crazy Chaos cultist spam! I like it! (Even if it's a once per game use)

[stratagem] Dead Sneaky: Oh boy. Forget the teleporta. (Which in many cases can cost twice as much CP) Someone is going to get maliciously abused! Fanatically abused! Deliciously abused. Expect multiple 20-30 ork boyz squads infiltrating and popping up in your face turn 2. Trust me. It will hurt.

 

What I don't like...

Ork boyz now costing more, not very customizable HQ choices. In fact, almost no customisation options. Why can't my warboss have mega armour? Why can't my big mek or my warboss have a jump pack? Why don't they get it, but spez marinz do? If an ork wants to fly without wings, then an ork will fly without wings! Psyhic powers? Forget it. Not really worth looking at. Good auras from HQ? Meh. The head bashing to keep morale up is great, but that's about it really.

 

Between this codex and the index, most of the important stuff is just now more expensive with the same bite. The flashgitz have more bite, but tbh, if you're trying to outshoot an enemy or find the best combo for shooting and attacking with Orks. then you're using the wrong codex. Chaos have that down to a T. Hell, even Tyranids have better shooty weapons and higher BS overall!

 

I could go on and on, but to be honest. The codex speaks for itself. overhyped without any real changes as most of the rules and stratagems etc are just pasted copies of the other codexes. GWS has shown again that it's all talk and little action. This codex is a real cop out. It adds nothing to the competitive scene and this "workshop" makes no sense competitively. 

 

In fact, this codex hasn't really moved up or down in the competitive scene. Meaning still rock bottom.

 

My list...

Hasn't really changed since the index edition. I still think that one of the strongest if not the strongest (1750 pts) list is:

 

Battalion Detachment - Blood Axes

 

2x [WARLORD] Warboss - 2x Slugga - 2x Choppa (Or big choppa if you have the points to spare)

 

2x Nob with Waaagh! Banner - 2x Kustom Shoota

 

30x Ork Boyz - 30x Slugga - 30x Choppa 

 

30x Ork Boyz - 30x Slugga - 30x Choppa 

 

30x Ork Boyz - 30x Slugga - 30x Choppa 

 

30x Ork Boyz - 30x Slugga - 30x Choppa 

 

6x Trukk - 6x Big shootas

 

2x Deff Koptas - 2x Big Shootas

 

2x Deff Koptas - 2x Big Shootas

 

2x Deff Koptas - 2x Big Shootas

 

This is about 1750 points. Most likely a little below, but this is the jist of it. You have about 8 command points to play with. You spend 6 command points to get all 4 of your 30 ork boyz squads all dead sneaky like, while your commanderz and bannermen sit in the trukks. I didn't really bother with relics, warlord traits etc, because it doesn't really matter. They don't do much.

 

The tactix ere is dat all ur trukkz go forth and cause a great big road blockcade and box da enemy in like a sqigg on a sunday morning in a squigg fightin pen. Like a traffic jam with the bosses and nobz out of the enemy's line of sight of course! Den, the boyz come outta hiddin turn 2 and gather around for a turn 3 charge az da enemy tries to zap the trukks that are in the way.

 

Da deff koptas do what dey do bez. Dey annoy dem sneaky units, dem far awayz unitz, dem reali reali fast unitz and kaptur objectiffs while da rest of da boyz get stuk in! Simplz! Even dem pointy ear eldarz could do it!

 

Actually, I kinda like this list now. It may not be the most competitive and it would get curb stomped by my best lists any day of the week. But I must admit that it would be fun to suddenly see 120 orks pop up 9 inches from someone's face and seeing the opponent unable to do much as they have to chew through 6 trukks to get through to them.

 

However, the opinion remains the same. The codex does not look anywhere as good, fun or developed as it should be. I didn't play 7th edition, but my verdict. If you just want to krump stuff in close combat, Orks are not the best army. If you want to swarm someone. Take nidz. Because there is nothing in the ork codex that I can see that orks do better than anyone else. They are completely out classed by their biggest competitors the nidz. A few new trukks aren't going to change that. But if you want to play green skinz for the hell of it and don't care about the meta, then go ahead. Just don't expect them to do much as good players.

[tvih]

There's a lot going for the new codex. Losing HQs etc is a bummer, but beyond that I'm not sure some of your criticisms make sense. There's some really dangerous stuff in it. Like bikes with a wartrike having a theoretical 36" charge threat range in turn 1. Tellyporta also works better for most than Dead Sneaky because it can be used by non-infantry, and Dead Sneaky is already paying 2CP for a full boyz unit of 30 anyway.

Your list doesn't make much of the opportunities given by the codex. For one, the trukks don't make much sense just for characters. Certainly don't need 6, that's a lot of points for essentially nothing. They don't need to chew through the trukks to kill your boyz. Banner nobs are kinda overpriced despite having a good buff for others. For the price of one, you already can take many other models which provide their own additional attacks as well as extra bodies on the table. A banner has to be buffing at least two units at all times to make sense. Having trukks just to transport them only compounds the cost issue. Also remember that their banner buff doesn't even work while they're in the transports. Same goes for warboss buffs.

You also have nothing to deal with high toughness units. While "anything can wound anything", it's a slow process at best. I'm honestly not sure how you'd consider this a particularly strong, never mind strongest list with the new codex, because in all honesty it isn't.

[dakkamasta]

I'm with tvih. I have no idea where this harsh criticism is coming from because I've already come up with several fun and powerful wombo-combos. There is so much flavour in the book and still enough for a competitive player to make a solid tournament list.

 

More expensive with the same bite??? Many units got significant points drops whilst simultaneously getting buffs to their weapons (i.e. Morkanaut) and that doesn't even factor in the buffs from Kulturs and stratagems.

 

Also I find it strange that you have a very specific description of what you describe as 'winning' where you critisise an Eldar player using terrain to their advantage as per the ruleset then immediately write a flavourless, one-dimensional list that uses none of the many options the codex offers aside from spamming 1 stratagem. Not to mention the list isn't even strong to begin with as there is virtually no anti-tank and flyers will run circles around you for the entire game. Also, if facing another horde army or a high mobility army such as Aeldari, they will screen you out easily forcing your Boyz all the way back to your deployment zone.

 

Sorry if this post comes off rude, I'm just really struggling to see your point here.

[Lucio]

Loving the codex so far, it suits the army perfectly.

 

Yeah, HQ choice is a bit of a pain but that's down to a lack of models, and no real surprise.

 

There's at least 2 seperate, competative army styles

 

Boyz Spam

Speedwaagh

 

 

Also think a list balanced between the two will work

[brettfp]

So there's a whole bunch of stuff of mine that isn't in the codex (or at least wargear options that aren't) but as much as that sucks I feel it outweighed by all the points drops and other lovely gubbinz and stuff we get :) 

 

:rubs hands together while laughing menacingly:

[antique_nova]

There's a lot going for the new codex. Losing HQs etc is a bummer, but beyond that I'm not sure some of your criticisms make sense. There's some really dangerous stuff in it. Like bikes with a wartrike having a theoretical 36" charge threat range in turn 1. Tellyporta also works better for most than Dead Sneaky because it can be used by non-infantry, and Dead Sneaky is already paying 2CP for a full boyz unit of 30 anyway.

 

Your list doesn't make much of the opportunities given by the codex. For one, the trukks don't make much sense just for characters. Certainly don't need 6, that's a lot of points for essentially nothing. They don't need to chew through the trukks to kill your boyz. Banner nobs are kinda overpriced despite having a good buff for others. For the price of one, you already can take many other models which provide their own additional attacks as well as extra bodies on the table. A banner has to be buffing at least two units at all times to make sense. Having trukks just to transport them only compounds the cost issue. Also remember that their banner buff doesn't even work while they're in the transports. Same goes for warboss buffs.

 

You also have nothing to deal with high toughness units. While "anything can wound anything", it's a slow process at best. I'm honestly not sure how you'd consider this a particularly strong, never mind strongest list with the new codex, because in all honesty it isn't.

 

The wartrike has a potential of a 36" charge, but if we math hammer it, it's more likely to be 27". A 20" movement in one turn including advance is pretty deadly. But after that, it's just 17" average per turn. I have to admit, that I'm surprised I missed that. Note to self, don't write codex reviews when you're about to hit the hay. XD

 

I'm well aware that auras don't work while the unit is inside the vehicle. They would obviously disembark when the ork boyz arrive. If anything, I'd trade trukks for the wartrike. I'm well aware of the CP differences and the methods between teleporta and dead sneaky, but the fact is, I can use it for one 1CP (even if this list didn't use it)

 

I've thought about the Ork's ability to deal with high toughness units and apart from giving the nobz power klaws (which I didn't include in the original list), Orks don't really have any reliable anti-high-toughness units or weapons that do a reliable job. They're all either too freaking slow, too expensive or can barely hit the barn side of a titan within 2 metres.

 

I feel that 9th edition should have a rule that whenever a unit is within half range or quarter range of their weapon's maximum range then their BS increases by 1 (to a minimum range of 6"). Because why shouldn't orks be far more accurate when up close? It would make up for the poor dakka that orks have and push them into more aggressive plays and embrace the ork style of play better.

 

Yes, you can teleport flashgitz and it will hurt like hell when they arrive, but they cost far too much for what they do and are one of the orks most reliable shooty units. If not the most. The tank bustas. Well, apart from squigg bombs I don't trust much else. Even then, their range is laughable. 24" per turn with one use weapons (squigg bombs). That is too little.

 

I remember the old days when lootas were the bomb. They were freaking terrifying back in... 5th edition? I think. But even now, they're meh.

 

Yes, the enemy doesn't have to kill the trukks to kill the boyz, but that's why you position the 

 

But my point is. Do a comparison between what Orks can do and what others can do. Then do a points per points comparison and you'll find that points per points, Orks are horrific when hitting and damaging other units. Obliterators/plasma death squads often deal more damage, cost less/similar points cost and are generally tougher and have greater freedom of movement and stratagems to buff them up. (like firing twice a turn with veterans of the long war).

 

@dakkamasta

I understand. Sometimes it's difficult to write something on the internet without coming across like a prick. I'm guilty of it sometimes too, so I, like you have to write that it wasn't my intention to make that clear.

 

I criticize that rule the Eldar used, because it is a ridiculous rule because it's a cheat rule. Meaning that the rule in itself makes no sense and yet GWS let it pass and even worse, they endorsed it, because they wrote it with that intended effect. I mean, why can't my blood thirster or hive tyrant engage that unit perched on the second floor of a half broken ruin? It looks like I'm critising the Eldar player harshly and I don't blame you for seeing that way, but I'm blaming GW more than anything else. I'd rather not use that rule to win games, because in my mind, that rule should never have existed in the first place. 

 

I also fail to see how it relates to me then writing a "flavourless, one-dimensional" list, because my problem was with using "cheat" rules and the like to win. It sounds like you're saying that I'm contradicting myself about using gimmicks like the Eldar example in the list that I presented, when I haven't. Sure it's spam, but it's not unreasonable or ridiculous in the sense that it feels like cheating. 

 

Yes there is a distinct lack of anti-tank and anti-flyer units, but you don't have to kill a unit to be effective against it. You only need to die it up, that's where the trukks, boyz and deff koptas come in. Bear in mind, I'd be replacing said trukks with wartrikes, which I overlooked in my first review.

 

Yes, Eldar can easily screen me out, but that's why I have the deff koptas and I can always footslogg. I orginally thought about naked battlewagons with ard cases, but a good army will easily cripple two within the first 2 turns and they can then wrap themselves around said battlewagon and destroy it and the boyz easily by preventing them from disembarking. If someone wants to do DS denial zones with scout units, then they're more than welcome, because then that allows the trukks/wartrikes/deff koptas to go and tie up their units, contest objectives as the boyz run across the board. They will have to choose who to shoot. The advancing boyz or the trukks/warstrikes/deff koptas that are in their face and on vital objectives?

 

Just because a codex has many options, doesn't mean you have to use a lot of them to get a very competitive army. I never overload my armies with too many gadgets, because then they don't work well together and it's an absolute headache to keep track of everything.

 

You may find the list I presented flavourless and one-dimensional, but I see it as one that is very tactically flexible and one of the best types of lists the Orks can field. Even if the list isn't finished. Boyz are the bread and butter of Ork armies and while I wish I could bring more,I know I can't. As I've mentioned higher up in this comment, most of the Ork's other units are not worth it compared to the other units points per points cost for what they do.

 

I've tried many other Ork lists before, using all sorts of combos, such as Ork blitzkriegs with boyz, bikes and bombers, but no matter whatever list I've built. They have never managed to break it into my top 5 lists since this edition began. (whether those are my lists or someone elses)

 

I must also admit that this review is one of the least detailed compared to what I've written before, but that's mostly because I didn't feel that there was much to write about.

 

However, I think our views are mostly different because of what we define as competitive. When I think about competitive, I think about it being able to win tournaments which include the ability the ability to beat what I believe to be the top 3 best lists at that time. Or at least the top 5, if it can't break into that group, then it's not competitive for me. Although, I can contradict myself at times by saying some lists can be a little competitive, by that I mean that it stands a chance to do okay, but don't expect it to win tournaments or beat top lists/top players - the best lists/tactics.

 

But with all that said. I have to admit that I did overlook a few things in the codex and created another list. Complete with points this time.

 

Clan Kultur: Blood Axes

Relics: Morgog's finkin cap

Warlord Trait: Follow me ladz & Kunnin but brutal

 

3x deffkilla wartrike - 360 pts

20x Boyz with power klaw nobz - 153 pts

20x Boyz with power klaw nobz - 153 pts

19x Boyz with power klaw nobz - 146 pts

18x Boyz with power klaw nobz - 139 pts

2x deff kopta with twin big shootas & spinnin blades - 80 pts

2x deff kopta with twin big shootas & spinnin blades - 80 pts

2x deff kopta with twin big shootas & spinnin blades - 80 pts

6x mek gunz - smasha gun - 186 pts

6x mek gunz - smasha gun - 186 pts

6x mek gunz - smasha gun - 186 pts

 

1749 pts

 

Wartrikes move up and smash things. Deff koptas go capture objectives, deny enemy DS units space. Mek gunz shoot what needs to be shot and the boyz just go where needed, whether it's slogging it by foot or being all sneaky like.

 

Why no lootas? Because we have mek gunz who are far more reliable. Why no flash gitz? Because they are far more reliable and have twice the range and because they can use the shoot twice stratagem if need be where as the flash gitz have to rely on a pot of luck to do it. Why no nobz? Because they're just a bunch of nobz. ^^. 

[Warhead01]

@ antique_nova, how long have you been playing Orks? 
I looked at your first list and the thing I like the most that you've done there is haveing 30 strong units and trukk transports as well. it's something I had thought about trying but hadn't done yet. 
You mentioned the lack of a Mega armoured warboss. Why not index it? Gw has a flow chart or something.

I think either of your list would do well against Space marines but not sure either would fair too well against anything else.  I see AM shredding wither of those list, unless you did something magical with those War trikes. 
Have to ask because I didn't notice, are you limited to one detachment? 1 more and your up to 3 detachments. 
8 smasha gunz really?. I like smasha guns but 18. lol. You could probably get by with 15 and be fine. No proxies either. lol  

I'd have to see this played to give any useful thoughts on this.  

 

I guess you plan to have your boys stand in front of you mek gunz to keep them able to shoot, fall back from combat when you have to and send your eff Koptas and wartrikes out to score objective and hit key enemy targets. Am I close? No idea what those warlord traits do at this time.
 

[Redtoof]

Don’t have any thoughts yet on if Orks are top tier competitive, but just chiming in because you mentioned using mek guns to shoot twice. Unless I’ve got it wrong, you can’t use the Ork stratagems on mek guns because they have the gretchin keyword. I suspect they are still very strong anyway.

[Warhead01]

Don’t have any thoughts yet on if Orks are top tier competitive, but just chiming in because you mentioned using mek guns to shoot twice. Unless I’ve got it wrong, you can’t use the Ork stratagems on mek guns because they have the gretchin keyword. I suspect they are still very strong anyway.

that and aren't they still single model unit when they are deployed? I haven't heard of any changes to that, just that they have new deployment rules. 

If so then one mek gun, if it can, shooting twice isn't very useful.

[Redtoof]

That too. Though I think from a competitive stand point, having 18 individual guns is pretty handy!

[Perry]

That too. Though I think from a competitive stand point, having 18 individual guns is pretty handy!

There's that, and I can't think of anything else with that amount of Dakka for the same amount of points

[Armchairarbiter]

Don’t have any thoughts yet on if Orks are top tier competitive, but just chiming in because you mentioned using mek guns to shoot twice. Unless I’ve got it wrong, you can’t use the Ork stratagems on mek guns because they have the gretchin keyword. I suspect they are still very strong anyway.

 

There is a small debate about this currently. The rule isn't "if the unit has the gretchen keyword", it's if the unit is made entirely of gretchen. Technically, the mek-gun is not a gretchen but it's also technically just equipment lol. 

 

I suppose RAI it would not benefit from Kultures and such but maybe these are different? 

 

This is why people were getting confused about Nobz. They saw the Gretchen keyword in the unit and freaked out about them not getting Kultures and strategems without reading the rule that prohibits it. It very specifically states it must be an all-gretchen unit to not benefit. So the Grots in the new wagons benefit. 

[Redtoof]

 

Don’t have any thoughts yet on if Orks are top tier competitive, but just chiming in because you mentioned using mek guns to shoot twice. Unless I’ve got it wrong, you can’t use the Ork stratagems on mek guns because they have the gretchin keyword. I suspect they are still very strong anyway.

 

 

There is a small debate about this currently. The rule isn't "if the unit has the gretchen keyword", it's if the unit is made entirely of gretchen. Technically, the mek-gun is not a gretchen but it's also technically just equipment lol. 

 

I suppose RAI it would not benefit from Kultures and such but maybe these are different? 

 

This is why people were getting confused about Nobz. They saw the Gretchen keyword in the unit and freaked out about them not getting Kultures and strategems without reading the rule that prohibits it. It very specifically states it must be an all-gretchen unit to not benefit. So the Grots in the new wagons benefit.

The rule uses the word gretchin in bold - meaning the keyword rather than the unit entry. Mek guns have that keyword, so the rule applies to them, along with Killa Kans.

[Armchairarbiter]

 

 

Don’t have any thoughts yet on if Orks are top tier competitive, but just chiming in because you mentioned using mek guns to shoot twice. Unless I’ve got it wrong, you can’t use the Ork stratagems on mek guns because they have the gretchin keyword. I suspect they are still very strong anyway.

 

There is a small debate about this currently. The rule isn't "if the unit has the gretchen keyword", it's if the unit is made entirely of gretchen. Technically, the mek-gun is not a gretchen but it's also technically just equipment lol. 

 

I suppose RAI it would not benefit from Kultures and such but maybe these are different? 

 

This is why people were getting confused about Nobz. They saw the Gretchen keyword in the unit and freaked out about them not getting Kultures and strategems without reading the rule that prohibits it. It very specifically states it must be an all-gretchen unit to not benefit. So the Grots in the new wagons benefit.

The rule uses the word gretchin in bold - meaning the keyword rather than the unit entry. Mek guns have that keyword, so the rule applies to them, along with Killa Kans.

 

 

Correct, but it says entirely of Gretchen. It's why Gretchen in the Nobz unit do not take it away from the Nobz. I am just saying that some people are arguing the Mek-gun or the Kan makes it not entirely a Grethen unit. I actually agree with you and think they don't benefit lol but just trying to word other peoples argument. :) 

 

It would explain Mek Gunz being so cheap. 

[tychobi]

Anything other than mek guns feeling like a good buy points wise? Im searching and not finding

[Warhead01]

Anything other than mek guns feeling like a good buy points wise? Im searching and not finding

I don't understand what you mean, could you explain?

 

 

[Beams]

Is there any way to get some serious Dakka without mek guns? I don't want a static Ork army, but I'm not looking to just charge into melee.

 

I can't see Gunwagon being worth it though, and flash guys look way too easy to kill for their points.

[FlamingDeth]

Tankbustas are pretty good, especially for bad moons and deathskulls. Lootas seem pretty good for bad moons with the strats. Shokk attack guns for deathskulls also seem pretty good. For hilarity you can make a quad KMB deff dread.

[toaae]

Lootas with Grots for Grot Shields would be good, as the worst thing about Lootas is their durability.

[FlamingDeth]

You could do a bad moons loota bomb by mobbing up a unit of 10 and a unit of 15 turn 1 and then using all the shoot strats to make them bonkers. Grots to keep them safe also sounds prudent.

[Ishagu]

It's the best Ork codex... Ever?

[gilt_imp]

I’m looking at the Index HQ’s on warbikes (Warboss & Big Mek) and wondering if they will get the keyword ‘Speed Freeks’ added as well?

 

FW updated Zhadsnark da Rippa to include the Speed Freeks keyword.

[KJB]

Why on earth would you take the Goff warlord trait “Proper Killy” (+1 attack) when you can take the generic warlord trait “Might is Right” (+1 strength and +1 attack)????

 

Am I missing something???

[Warhead01]

Why on earth would you take the Goff warlord trait “Proper Killy” (+1 attack) when you can take the generic warlord trait “Might is Right” (+1 strength and +1 attack)????

 

Am I missing something???

No, your right. it's probably just there to keep Ghaz in check. He has a lot of possible attacks and exploding 6's. I think GW is worried about their primarch models being thrashed on too hard.  So I guess it's for game balance. lol

Goffs are proppa Orks after all. 

[dakkamasta]

I’m looking at the Index HQ’s on warbikes (Warboss & Big Mek) and wondering if they will get the keyword ‘Speed Freeks’ added as well?

 

FW updated Zhadsnark da Rippa to include the Speed Freeks keyword.

 

Having checked that, I only just noticed that Zhadsnark's Waaagh! doesn't affect bikes and therefore himself. He's got the auto 6" advance but is much more killy in close combat compared to a Wartrike. The Wartrike can give him advance+charge and they can keep up with each other. Looks like a really solid combo.