my Black Templars on Tournament (8th)

[Medjugorje]

Hello fellow brothers,

 

I used to have great success (even as newcomer) in 5th edition with my templars - back then with lots of terminators (assault and normal) + Land Speeder and my beloved 3wound Chaplain in Terminatorarmour, and very good to medium success in 6th edition I stopped playing them after falling back into Space Marines Codex.

Now its time after 9 tournaments in 8th edition. Until now (Saturday this week) just one of my Emperors Champion had seen a battlefield in a tournament (in IMPERIUM soup list).

 

In germany we dont use ITC or ETC rules. We play own mission (TTM) sets with priority is on maelstrom - so thats my list. What do you think?

 

Black Templars: Battalion Detachment - 722 Punkte
*************** 3 HQ ***************
Captain in Terminator Armour (Warlord iron resolve mit Relic stormshield)
+ Storm shield, Thunder hammer -> 36 Pkt. - - - > 141 Punkte

Captain, Jump Pack (2+ Armoursave Relic)
+ Combi-melta, Thunder hammer -> 40 Pkt. - - - > 133 Punkte

High Marshal Helbrecht - - - > 170 Punkte

*************** 3 Standard ***************
Scout Squad
5 Scouts, 4 x Boltgun
+ Sergeant, 1 x Bolt pistol, 1 x Boltgun -> 0 Pkt. - - - > 55 Punkte

Scout Squad
5 Scouts, 4 x Boltgun
+ Sergeant, 1 x Bolt pistol, 1 x Boltgun -> 0 Pkt. - - - > 55 Punkte

Scout Squad
5 Scouts, 4 x Boltgun
+ Sergeant, 1 x Bolt pistol, 1 x Boltgun -> 0 Pkt. - - - > 55 Punkte

*************** 3 Elite ***************
Apothecary - - - > 55 Punkte

Honour Guard, 2 x Power axe - - - > 52 Punkte

3 Cenobyte Servitors - - - > 6 Punkte

Black Templars: Battalion Detachment - 882 Punkte
*************** 2 HQ ***************
1 Lieutenant, 1 x Combi-melta, 1 x Power maul - - - > 83 Punkte

The Emperor's Champion - - - > 75 Punkte


*************** 3 Standard ***************
Crusader Squad
6 Initiates, 4 x Chainsword + Bolt pistol, Heavy bolter, 3 Neophytes, 3 x Combat knife + Bolt pistol
+ Sword Brother, 1 x 2 Lightning claws -> 12 Pkt. - - - > 133 Punkte

Crusader Squad
7 Initiates, 4 x Boltgun + Bolt pistol, Plasma gun, Lascannon
+ Sword Brother, 1 x Power sword, 1 x Combi-plasma -> 19 Pkt. - - - > 148 Punkte

Crusader Squad
7 Initiates, 4 x Boltgun + Bolt pistol, Plasma gun, Lascannon
+ Sword Brother, 1 x Power sword, 1 x Combi-plasma -> 19 Pkt. - - - > 148 Punkte

*************** 4 Transporter ***************
Rhino, Storm bolter - - - > 74 Punkte

Rhino, Storm bolter - - - > 74 Punkte

Rhino, Storm bolter - - - > 74 Punkte

Rhino, Storm bolter - - - > 74 Punkte

IMPERIUM: Patrol Detachment - 395 Punkte
*************** 5 Elite ***************
Culexus Assassin - - - > 85 Punkte

Culexus Assassin - - - > 85 Punkte

Culexus Assassin - - - > 85 Punkte

Eversor Assassin - - - > 70 Punkte

Eversor Assassin - - - > 70 Punkte

[Closet Skeleton]

Too many characters not enough units. Cenobyte servitors are a waste if you have no units above 7 models.

[Margulix]

Hi there, fellow brother!

 

Well this list seems a bit weird.

What's the idea behind it?

 

for a 2k points i see a small amount of anti-vehicle firepower.

Also scouts with bolters? 

Also honor guard? 

 

Also is this list for tournaments or for friendly-play?

[Medjugorje]

Too many characters not enough units. Cenobyte servitors are a waste if you have no units above 7 models.

 

I have 4 Rhinos! thats enough. Normally i should change the crusaders into Rhinos^^

And 6 points are too good and if I need a fearless-bubble I would play the relic banner!.

BTW they must drive in a rhino and if the enemy destroy it - i dont have to take a Crusader or a chrakter as casaulty.

Hi there, fellow brother!

 

Well this list seems a bit weird.

What's the idea behind it?

 

for a 2k points i see a small amount of anti-vehicle firepower.

Also scouts with bolters? 

Also honor guard? 

 

Also is this list for tournaments or for friendly-play?

 

noone plays big vehicles because there are too much castallans. And against castellans I will destroy the rest of his army.

I will play them very aggressiv - All units must go forward and there is a big bubble from Helbrecht + Castellan what makes the Crusader competitive.... and if the enemy has destroyed them - my unit are already in close combat.

[Medjugorje]

Hi there, fellow brother!

 

Well this list seems a bit weird.

What's the idea behind it?

 

for a 2k points i see a small amount of anti-vehicle firepower.

Also scouts with bolters? 

Also honor guard? 

 

Also is this list for tournaments or for friendly-play?

 

Nobody plays big vehicles because there are too much castallans. And against castellans I will destroy the rest of his army. My Idea behind it is to go into close combat and short range fire like Tamplars do.... beside that I want to play a list what comes close to a real templar list and not this bull:cuss what everybody else play (2 Companycommander + 3 Guardstroops + Castellans + 3 Custodesbiker ... or anything else like that)...

 

For myself, dont want to look like arrogant but I played many tournaments and at my best times I was 11th in ELO Germany. I think I dont need the strongest list to claim the upper third. If this list works okay I would play it in the Grand Tournament South (Germany TTM) - if not I must play my Eldar soup.

[Margulix]

Well maybe its your local meta i guess. 

 

As a fellow BT player i would be completely scared to go with this list at any tournament in my city. Because Crusaders, even with Helbrecht kinda... suck in CC. Once i charged 20 cc squad into 5 plags and 10 poxwalkers... and they stayed there for 3 turns. 

My meta is filled with parking lots, cheap screens, TAU and Gullimans.

 

Also dunno, its easy to stuck with them in any screen - brimstones, conscripts, cultists. 

[redmapa]

Well to me it seems like this list is meant to do two things, have a bunch of units that can spread out and take objectives and a bunch of units that can put some hurt if left unattended and I think it works fine for that specific meta though you might still get blown the eff out of the table. That being said you are more experienced than me in your own tourney scene so I might be wrong BUT Im not 100% sure why you want to run 6 troops, 3 scout squads are pretty good but the Crusaders arent that great and you could have more of a threat by running them as a Vanguard Vets in Rhinos, they point difference isnt that much and you get +1A.

[Medjugorje]

Well maybe its your local meta i guess. 

 

As a fellow BT player i would be completely scared to go with this list at any tournament in my city. Because Crusaders, even with Helbrecht kinda... suck in CC. Once i charged 20 cc squad into 5 plags and 10 poxwalkers... and they stayed there for 3 turns. 

My meta is filled with parking lots, cheap screens, TAU and Gullimans.

 

Also dunno, its easy to stuck with them in any screen - brimstones, conscripts, cultists. 

 

I expect them too^^ But remember: " accept any challenge, no matter the odds".

 

And we all are know that a list you played a long time and know to use is much better then a tournement list you dont know to handle with.

[Medjugorje]

Well to me it seems like this list is meant to do two things, have a bunch of units that can spread out and take objectives and a bunch of units that can put some hurt if left unattended and I think it works fine for that specific meta though you might still get blown the eff out of the table. That being said you are more experienced than me in your own tourney scene so I might be wrong BUT Im not 100% sure why you want to run 6 troops, 3 scout squads are pretty good but the Crusaders arent that great and you could have more of a threat by running them as a Vanguard Vets in Rhinos, they point difference isnt that much and you get +1A.

 I think thats because our tournaments are more about making points in maelstrom in comparison to ITC.

[Medjugorje]

so now, i am done. I played against Dark Eldar and won this game. He played 3 Ravager 24 Jetbiker, 2 Archons, 5 x Kabal Warriors with Blaster in Raiders + Jet.  In won 14:6. We fought just unitl round 3  - after that he lost all troops, 1 archon, 3 Raider and all 24 jetbikes. None of my characters lost any wound. I am sure - after 5 rounds I would defeat him in "wipe out". But sure, he was not that experienced with his army and tournament in general.

 

 

Secound game I played against Blood Angels with Dante, Lieutenant, Slamguines, Mephiston, 2 Baal Predators, 2 LasCanPredators and 2x Sternguards and 3 Scouts + 2 Rhinos + typical Guard Detachment. He started and the mission wasnt that perfect. But I won in overwhelming melee fight. There was a small LOS in the middle of the matchfiield. 17:3. End of round 5 he throw a 1 - and the game (sadly for me) stopped. He just left 1 unit scouts and 3 tanks sorrounded by my troops. I lost the EC, My Captain with Jump Pack, my Castellan, Helbrecht (was slain by Mephiston after he was killed by the EC - and per stratagem he finished our golden High Marshal).

 

Now i was 2nd and i had to play in the final...

Last game against 2 Castellan Knights of "House k.r....tthh" (reroll to hit  in first round in combat" ; 1 Armiger, typicall Guard Batallion, small Mechanicum Battallion. Killpoint mission and a selfmade mission close to skorched earth. He started, it was a real hard fight.... In the end i lost 50:28 - what is sadly 0:20. ( I hope our tournement community will change to percentage matrix) - I think it was the best i could do against him... And it wasnt a "wipe out".

 

 

In the end i was 7 of 12 because my army wasnt painted and i  lost 3rd game very hard.

[Marshal_Roujakis]

Now wouldn't it be better to have a fully painted army ;)

 

 

Sure, mine isn't tournament capable, but it is painted :D

[Medjugorje]

Ohh... enough (nice painted) models for a tournament list ;)

[Jacques Corbin]

Now wouldn't it be better to have a fully painted army ;)

 

 

Sure, mine isn't tournament capable, but it is painted :D

Nice of your mom to let you keep them in a display cabinet, rather than boxed up under your bed...

[Marshal_Roujakis]

 

Now wouldn't it be better to have a fully painted army

 

 

Sure, mine isn't tournament capable, but it is painted

Nice of your mom to let you keep them in a display cabinet, rather than boxed up under your bed...

 

 

I only display those that I have deemed 100% done or are in the progress of painting (hence black Ironclad and unbased models in the center), I have another 20,000 pts. of Templars just waiting to be painted or assembled... this is pretty much a quarter of my total force...

 

But I don't play with them anymore, as I refuse to play with Primaris and lack the tenacity and motivation to delve time into studying 8th ed. so I tend to just model and paint for relaxation and displaying them on my shelf... I'm just not competitive enough for tournament plays and I like modeling my Marines with inefficient equipment anyway, so there... for example: 5 man Sternguard Squad with 4 Combi-Plas and Plasma Cannon... too expensive in game... 10 man melee Crusader Squad with Thunder Hammer Sword Brethren and Power Fist expensive in points and 1 wound, 1 Attack Power Fists is a waste in the meta, but they look cool though, so why not... I probably will not be playing 40k anymore, but I'll stay informed with the rules, I'll just paint and model things that I like... this is a hobby after all and we all have our own paths to take in this endeavor...

 

And I have other things on display too:

[Medjugorje]

New year, new zeal...

 

my vow for this year is to win a tournament with a list with more than 60% Black Templars in it.

So here is my next list:

 

Gesamtpunkte der Armee : 1998
Powerlevel der Armee : 136
Relics 4 CP-Abzug: 4

Additional Formation/Detachment with additional WLT: CP-Abzug: 2
Kommandopunkte der Armee : 18-6 =12

Black Templars: Battalion Detachment - 361 Punkte (PL 25)
***************  2 HQ ***************  
Captain in Terminator Armour [WARLORD]
+ The Shield Eternal, Thunder hammer  -> 31 Pkt.
+ Warlordtrait: Iron Resolve (SM)  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 126 Punkte (PL 8)

1 Lieutenant, 1 x Bolt pistol, 1 x Power maul  - - - > 64 Punkte (PL 4)

***************  3 Standard ***************  
Scout Squad
5 Scouts, 4 x Boltgun
+ Sergeant, 1 x Bolt pistol, 1 x Boltgun  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 55 Punkte (PL 4)

Scout Squad
5 Scouts, 4 x Boltgun
+ Sergeant, 1 x Bolt pistol, 1 x Boltgun  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 55 Punkte (PL 4)

Scout Squad
5 Scouts, 4 x Boltgun
+ Sergeant, 1 x Bolt pistol, 1 x Boltgun  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 55 Punkte (PL 4)

***************  1 Elite ***************  
3 Cenobyte Servitors  - - - > 6 Punkte (PL 1)

Black Templars: Battalion Detachment - 1391 Punkte (PL 90) Swort Brethren Detachment
***************  3 HQ ***************  
High Marshal Helbrecht  - - - > 150 Punkte (PL 9)

Captain, Jump Pack+ Teeth of Terra, Storm shield  -> 10 Pkt.  - - - > 103 Punkte (PL 6) (additional WLT - Swordmaster)

The Emperor's Champion  - - - > 75 Punkte (PL 6)

***************  3 Standard ***************  
Crusader Squad
5 Initiates, 2 x Boltgun + Bolt pistol, Plasma gun, Plasma cannon
+ Sword Brother, 1 x Bolt pistol, 1 x Combi-plasma  -> 11 Pkt.  - - - > 103 Punkte (PL 5)

Crusader Squad
5 Initiates, 2 x Boltgun + Bolt pistol, Plasma gun, Plasma cannon
+ Sword Brother, 1 x Bolt pistol, 1 x Combi-plasma  -> 11 Pkt.  - - - > 103 Punkte (PL 5)

Crusader Squad
5 Initiates, 2 x Boltgun + Bolt pistol, Plasma gun, Plasma cannon
+ Sword Brother, 1 x Bolt pistol, 1 x Combi-plasma  -> 11 Pkt.  - - - > 103 Punkte (PL 5)

***************  6 Elite ***************  
Primaris Apothecary  - - - > 68 Punkte (PL 4)

5 Company Veterans, 4 x Storm shield, 4 x Chainsword+ Sergeant, 1 x Chainsword, 1 x Thunder hammer  -> 16 Pkt.  - - - > 94 Punkte (PL 8)

Primaris Ancient+ Standard of the Emperor Ascendant, Bolt pistol, Bolt rifle  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 69 Punkte (PL 4)

Vanguard Veteran Squad
5 Veterans, 8 x Plasma pistol, Jump packs
+ Sergeant, 2 x Plasma pistol  -> 10 Pkt.  - - - > 135 Punkte (PL 8)

Vanguard Veteran Squad
8 Veterans, 5 x Chainsword, 5 x Storm shield, 2 x Chainsword, 2 x Thunder hammer, Jump packs
+ Sergeant, 1 x Chainsword, 1 x Thunder hammer  -> 16 Pkt.  - - - > 194 Punkte (PL 15)

Vanguard Veteran Squad
8 Veterans, 5 x Chainsword, 5 x Storm shield, 2 x Chainsword, 2 x Thunder hammer, Jump packs
+ Sergeant, 1 x Chainsword, 1 x Thunder hammer  -> 16 Pkt.  - - - > 194 Punkte (PL 15)

Cadian: Battalion Detachment - 246 Punkte (PL 21)
***************  2 HQ ***************  
Company Commander+ Chainsword, Laspistol  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 30 Punkte (PL 3) (Kurovs Aquilla)
Company Commander+ Chainsword, Laspistol  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 30 Punkte (PL 3)

***************  3 Standard ***************  
Infantry Squad+ Sergeant, Chainsword, Laspistol  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 40 Punkte (PL 3)
Infantry Squad+ Sergeant, Chainsword, Laspistol  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 40 Punkte (PL 3)
Infantry Squad+ Sergeant, Chainsword, Laspistol  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 40 Punkte (PL 3)

***************  2 Unterstützung ***************  
3 Heavy Weapons Teams, 3 x Mortar  - - - > 33 Punkte (PL 3)
3 Heavy Weapons Teams, 3 x Mortar  - - - > 33 Punkte (PL 3)

 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Why not strip out three of the elites and the EC and put them into a separate vanguard detachment for an extra CP?

[Dark_Jober]

Why not strip out three of the elites and the EC and put them into a separate vanguard detachment for an extra CP?

Maybe he is limited by the tournament rules to 3 detachments

[Medjugorje]

 

Why not strip out three of the elites and the EC and put them into a separate vanguard detachment for an extra CP?

Maybe he is limited by the tournament rules to 3 detachments

 

exactly.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Fair enough then.

 

Although, Plasma Cannons? Can you not find some points for a Lascannon somewhere?

[Medjugorje]

Fair enough then.

 

Although, Plasma Cannons? Can you not find some points for a Lascannon somewhere?

take the note that plasma cannons are better then lascannons....

against Rhino:

 

2/3 hits --> 0,44 wounds --> 0,37 * 1D6 damage = 1,296

2x2/3 hits --> 0,88 wounds --> 0,74 * 2 damage = 1,481

 

and still 9 points cheaper!

 

if they die because overcharge i can shoot again on 3+ because of the banner and still have a chance to "alive" because of the apo.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Ok, I may give them another look.

[Dark_Jober]

Plasma can look like a better Heavy Weapon but then Max Power is unleashed with a Captain in the area for repeatint 1's and always shooting overcharged.

 

The real trick is that plasma cannon is 30"... And that is the most important point. Because that range difference can be the difference between shooting one more turn or not.

 

But... I m going to run in my next games one Las squad and one Plasma, so I m also interested in this topic.

[Medjugorje]

Plasma can look like a better Heavy Weapon but then Max Power is unleashed with a Captain in the area for repeatint 1's and always shooting overcharged.

 

The real trick is that plasma cannon is 30"... And that is the most important point. Because that range difference can be the difference between shooting one more turn or not.

 

But... I m going to run in my next games one Las squad and one Plasma, so I m also interested in this topic.

in Germany the tournaments are different to others. ITC for example favors another playstyle in comparison to TTM (most used German rule setting). We are playing much more Malstrom, so aggressive and mobile armies are played. There are always targets

 

But yes, 48" can make the difference ( but plasma cannon has 36")

[Medjugorje]

tournament is over

 

Gesamtpunkte der Armee : 1915 (+ Assassine)

ASTRA MILITARUM: Battalion Detachment - 349 Punkte (PL 30)
***************  3 HQ ***************  
Company Commander
+ Kurvo's Aquila, Chainsword, Laspistol  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 30 Punkte (PL 3)

Company Commander
+ Chainsword, Laspistol  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 30 Punkte (PL 3)

Company Commander
+ Chainsword, Laspistol  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 30 Punkte (PL 3)

***************  4 Standard ***************  
Infantry Squad
+ , Chainsword, Laspistol  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 40 Punkte (PL 3)

Infantry Squad
+ , Chainsword, Laspistol  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 40 Punkte (PL 3)

Infantry Squad
+ , Chainsword, Laspistol  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 40 Punkte (PL 3)

Infantry Squad
+ , Chainsword, Laspistol  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 40 Punkte (PL 3)

***************  3 Unterstützung ***************  
3 Heavy Weapons Teams, 3 x Mortar  - - - > 33 Punkte (PL 3)

3 Heavy Weapons Teams, 3 x Mortar  - - - > 33 Punkte (PL 3)

3 Heavy Weapons Teams, 3 x Mortar  - - - > 33 Punkte (PL 3)

Black Templars: Battalion Detachment - 890 Punkte (PL 55)
***************  3 HQ ***************  
Captain, Jump Pack
+ Teeth of Terra, Storm shield  -> 10 Pkt.  - - - > 103 Punkte (PL 6) Swordmaster

The Emperor's Champion  - - - > 75 Punkte (PL 6)

High Marshal Helbrecht  - - - > 150 Punkte (PL 9)

***************  3 Standard ***************  
Crusader Squad
5 Initiates, 2 x Boltgun + Bolt pistol, Plasma gun, Plasma cannon, 1 Neophyt, 1 x Boltgun + Bolt pistol
+ Sword Brother, 1 x Chainsword, 1 x Combi-plasma  -> 11 Pkt.  - - - > 114 Punkte (PL 8)

Crusader Squad
5 Initiates, 2 x Boltgun + Bolt pistol, Plasma gun, Plasma cannon
+ Sword Brother, 1 x Chainsword, 1 x Combi-plasma  -> 11 Pkt.  - - - > 103 Punkte (PL 5)

Crusader Squad
5 Initiates, 2 x Boltgun + Bolt pistol, Plasma gun, Plasma cannon
+ Sword Brother, 1 x Chainsword, 1 x Combi-plasma  -> 11 Pkt.  - - - > 103 Punkte (PL 5)

***************  1 Elite ***************  
5 Company Veterans, 4 x Storm shield, 4 x Chainsword
+ Sergeant, 1 x Chainsword, 1 x Thunder hammer  -> 16 Pkt.  - - - > 94 Punkte (PL 8)

***************  2 Transporter ***************  
Rhino, Storm bolter  - - - > 74 Punkte (PL 4)

Rhino, Storm bolter  - - - > 74 Punkte (PL 4)

Black Templars: Battalion Detachment - 676 Punkte (PL 47)
***************  2 HQ ***************  
1 Lieutenant, 1 x Master-crafted boltgun, 1 x Power sword  - - - > 67 Punkte (PL 4)

Captain in Terminator Armour [WARLORD]
+ The Shield Eternal, Thunder hammer  -> 31 Pkt.
+ Warlordtrait: Iron Resolve (SM)  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 126 Punkte (PL 8)

***************  3 Standard ***************  
Scout Squad
5 Scouts, 4 x Boltgun
+ Sergeant, 1 x Bolt pistol, 1 x Boltgun  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 55 Punkte (PL 4)

Scout Squad
5 Scouts, 4 x Boltgun
+ Sergeant, 1 x Bolt pistol, 1 x Boltgun  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 55 Punkte (PL 4)

Scout Squad
5 Scouts, 4 x Boltgun
+ Sergeant, 1 x Bolt pistol, 1 x Boltgun  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 55 Punkte (PL 4)

***************  4 Elite ***************  
Apothecary
+ Chainsword, Bolt pistol  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 55 Punkte (PL 3)

3 Cenobyte Servitors  - - - > 6 Punkte (PL 1)

Company Ancient
+ Standard of the Emperor Ascendant, Bolt pistol  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 63 Punkte (PL 4)

Vanguard Veteran Squad
8 Veterans, 5 x Chainsword, 5 x Storm shield, 2 x Chainsword, 2 x Thunder hammer, Jump packs
+ Sergeant, 1 x Chainsword, 1 x Thunder hammer  -> 16 Pkt.  - - - > 194 Punkte (PL 15)

 

 

played with this list. At first i won against a Tau Army 8:4 and then i destroyed a Ynnari Reaper + Spears liste with 3 Razorwing Jetfighters 9:3. But then i lost the last game against Genestealers and Tyranids ( 2x20 Genestealers + the guys who shoot without LOS + the GSC Psyker combo to kill charakters...) - JUST because I went out of time. We played with chess-watch and It run out of time in 4th round so that my enemy could make his turns and I was forced just allowed to make saving throws... If  I had 10 Minutes more I still won against this list.

[Marshal Mattias]

Sounds like a cracking performance - and I'm pleased to see so many Black Templar boots on the ground! Can you give us any feedback on your wins? Any particular units that stood out, or tactics that contributed to success? Even a rough outline of a battle report would be most interesting to those curious to see how your list actually played on the table! I have always enjoyed the opportunity to get some Steel Legion into battle alongside my Templars, and the meta really seems to favour that combo at the moment. I was mostly surprised at your comparative lack of transports amd vehicles etc.