Kastellan Kong Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 Hey everyone! So I picked up 3 start playing boxes and... 8 boxes of Dire Avengers. 40 Dire Avengers, 15 wraithguard/blades, 3 Wraithlords and 3 Warwalkers. I think I'm good with anti-infantry shooting, and ok for anti-tank. I'm going to run two units of wraithguard with D-canons and a unit of 10 Wraithblades (need to pick up another box of wraiths obviously). Load out on walkers and lords is uncertain at this point, I'm leaning towards 1 lord with star canons, one with Brightlance and Missiles and one glaive lord with shuriken canons and 3 shuriken walkers. 2 Spiritseers and a Farseer as thd warlord. Running as Craftworld Ulthwé. Anyway, nothing is built yet, which brings me to my question. I really do feel like I'm set for ranged anti infantry even when just counting the bare bones avengers, leaving me puzzling over the exarchs. 4 of them. I've been contemplating the Shimmer Shield option to be exact. I tend to face a fair share of genestealers and other nasty assault units so having a 5++ (and Ulthwé +++) in combat is tempting to say the least. The way I see it, the dual catapults or the SS options are the strongest based on my current army load out. So do I max out on SS+glaive or do I go 2 SS and 2 Dual Cats? Or do I pick something different? With Shimmer Shields I "lose" 4 shots per exarch, so not an insignificant drop off ×4. Yet 9 Catapults is already decent and I do like the utility the exarch can bring outside of just dakka. Feel free to argue for or against any option (even ones I've left out). I'm willing to listen to all angles. Cheers! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351128-dire-avengers-exarchs/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosjetka Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 Since you're running max size units, "losing" 4 shots is rather negligible especially if you're faced with nasty assault units as you mentioned. The difference in points is rather significant though: for four dual ASC, you're paying 32 points whereas you'll be paying 96 points for the Shimmershield and power glaive option on all four Exarchs. If you have 64 points to spare in your list that's fine but I'm sure you could use them somewhere else, especially since Dire Avengers get to shoot during Overwatch on a 5+ roll instead of 6+ so taking dual shuriken catapults could be a decent lower-cost alternative. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351128-dire-avengers-exarchs/#findComment-5189725 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 I'd field a mix, both for the extra points and the extra shots. Quad-glaive/shield is expensive! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351128-dire-avengers-exarchs/#findComment-5189878 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher956 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 I'd build a mix, then you can use them for different tactical purposes... personally I have one diresword/pistol & one shield/glaive. The shield exarch is used for taking (and holding)objectives, the sword exarch goes with 5 avengers in the back of a falcon & are used for attacking back field support (the sword with the chance of a mortal wound can do surprising damage ) edit - next exarch will be the dual cats in a max unit that can just run round the board (7" move + D6 run + 18" range... no minuses to hit due to battle focus) and pump volume of shots into single targets (22 shots which will wound anything on 6... and every 6 to wound is -3 AP....in theory can drop a vehicle down a stat level if needed) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351128-dire-avengers-exarchs/#findComment-5189956 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastellan Kong Posted November 13, 2018 Author Share Posted November 13, 2018 All good points! In fact it made me sit down and crunch the numbers and, to be honest, it's looking quite grim for the SS in close combat. The shield is virtually useless vs Genestealers. Any combat sized unit will murder the Avengers in combat no matter the load out, even with a turn of shooting and overwatch included (of course the stealer unit costs around 2.5x as much as the Avengers). The 5++ save doesn't trigger vs the normal ap -1 attacks, and the volume of attacks make the few ap-4 saves you negate with the 5++ meaningless. And this was all calculated with the 6+++ Ulthwé ontop. Sad. Unless my math is terribly off. I haven't done any calculations vs shooting, and I've not bothered to see if they fare better with doom, guide or fortune, because of lazy. High ap weapons have a lot of other targets in my list so unsure how many las canons that will be aimed their way. Although, stick them in cover for a 3+ save and maybe they'll draw heavier fire. I'm not giving up on the SS just yet, although I'm no longer of the opinion that 4 of them can be justified in my list (or any list). So that leaves the other options. Dual, single or Dire. The only sad part is that I rate the dual catapults the lowest based on modelling (I think they don't look great on the model). The dual catapults also didn't help at all in the "charged by genestealers" scenario I tested, but then, those things murder everything so that's not really surprising. Mortal wounds from the Dire sword is tempting, but after running the numbers, the Avengers are kind of terrible in melee. Any positiv words available for the Dire option? Is there any way to justify sticking with just a single catapult? I can't see a good reason myself, but I'm grasping at straws here! :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351128-dire-avengers-exarchs/#findComment-5190640 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher956 Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 Single Cat + joint chepest option +/ - not gaining anything dual cat + 2 extra shots against model count - still a 2 wound model (albet with an invu save natively) dire sword + 1 in 6 change of a mortal wound + its still a power sword + pistol works in combat + joint chepest option - s3 power sword - only pistol in the unit so conflict of weapons shield + glave + Invun to the unit + S4 -2AP power weapon - @24 points of war gear, most expensive by 16 points - no ranged attack on the exarch Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351128-dire-avengers-exarchs/#findComment-5190795 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 Your analysis versus Genestealers is useless because you're failing into the trap of vacuum comparison. You made no consideration for terrain, tactics, or the rest of the army, and theres also a pretty massive points disparity. Charging 'stealers will delete a LOT of stuff, after all. My recommendation is to leave the Exarch armless for the time being and test loadouts in games to see which one feels the most utilitarian for you. Then model the appropriate arms. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351128-dire-avengers-exarchs/#findComment-5191420 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dulahan Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 I run 2 squads of each. And honestly still don't know which I prefer. Frankly, the Shimmershield is the reason to take that combo, because the glaive has never failed to disappoint me when I somehow do get into melee. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351128-dire-avengers-exarchs/#findComment-5191650 Share on other sites More sharing options...
robofish7591 Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 Personally, I use double catapults on my exarch. Dire Avengers are a shooting unit, and having an extra gun means they can do their job better. I'll probably build some exarchs up with the other options for rule of cool though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351128-dire-avengers-exarchs/#findComment-5191666 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 One other note on the Shimmershield. Always remember we also have the Protect power available. Your 5+ for the unit becomes a 4+, and the exarch's native invulnerable save becomes a storm shield! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351128-dire-avengers-exarchs/#findComment-5191999 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastellan Kong Posted November 15, 2018 Author Share Posted November 15, 2018 I run 2 squads of each. And honestly still don't know which I prefer. Frankly, the Shimmershield is the reason to take that combo, because the glaive has never failed to disappoint me when I somehow do get into melee. Yeah, I really wish I could just pay for the shield, or at least replace the glaive with a cheaper option. Oh well, it's not like eldar are in a bad spot when it comes to options in general. Although, I really wish they give some flex back to the autarch. One other note on the Shimmershield. Always remember we also have the Protect power available. Your 5+ for the unit becomes a 4+, and the exarch's native invulnerable save becomes a storm shield! You're totally right! I keep forgetting about the trickeries! This pretty much settles it with regards to if I'm going to use any Shields. Now I just have to get down to business and try out how many I'll go with. Probably won't be 4, but we'll see! Going to try running 2 this weekend and see how they do, even if I'm pretty sure they're more effective vs shooting (which honestly isn't a bad thing per se). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351128-dire-avengers-exarchs/#findComment-5192050 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wolfhart Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 I own 4 boxes of Avengers and went to the efoort to magnetize 2 legparts with 4 Exarch upper bodies, allowing me to switch between catapults, power weapon or glaive and shimmershield. The latter easily wins in terms of looks and lore, if you ask me, but most of the times i run 5man squads with double catapult on the Exarch, if i play for a win. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351128-dire-avengers-exarchs/#findComment-5192245 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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